BREAKING: Armed militia occupies forest reserve HQ in Oregon, call ‘US patriots’ to arms

a reply to: liveandlearn

Source?

a reply to: liveandlearn

How does double jepeordy work?

a reply to: liveandlearn

Honestly for a second I was stumped, like what the hell do BlackLivesmatter (BLM) people have to do with pissed off ranchers in a rural setting , so I hit the link and found Bureau of Land Management.
As for the fire fighting technique of the rancher family, i'd say let em go , but I see the gov't position also that the next rancher down the street may not know how to handle a wild fire and could cause damage, I'd give em a warning publicly and buy them a beer privately.
As for the gun toting Bundies thank goodness they are not Blacklivesmatter people many here love to hate.

a reply to: onequestion

That's what I'm wondering. Apparently a 9th circuit court can do just this. Seriously, this is wrong, really wrong. If by nothing else, the federal double jeopardy laws of punishment imposed and sentencing state once an offender has begun serving a sentence, the sentence may not be increased.

In Arizona v. Rumsey, 467 U.S. 203 (1984), a judge had held a separate hearing after the jury trial to decide if the sentence should be death or life imprisonment, in which he decided that the circumstances of the case did not permit death to be imposed. On appeal, the judge's ruling was found to be erroneous. However, even though the decision to impose life instead of death was based on an erroneous interpretation of the law by the judge, the conclusion of life imprisonment in the original case constituted an acquittal of the death penalty and thus death could not be imposed upon a subsequent trial. Even though the acquittal of the death penalty was erroneous in that case, the acquittal must stand.

a reply to: Vector99

see edit.

Off to bed now.

a reply to: liveandlearn

got it. Thanks!

a reply to: daaskapital

The question is: does Bundy's Lives Matter?

This potential stand-off has all the hallmarks of Bundy = Koresh and Bureau of Land Management = Dept of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

They have closed the Burns, OR schools all week because of these jackasses.
tweet from Oregonian senior reporter, Lee Zaitz

Reading, this Willamette Week article, some of the militia don't sound like they intend on returning alive.

"It's real simple, Dwight: Do you want to die in prison, labeled as a terrorist by these oppressors?" he asks. "Or do you want to die out here with us, as a free man? I want to die a free man."

--quote by militia member John Ritzheimer

a reply to: Sublimecraft

No, the question is does federal law matter.

Feelings aside, these guys are being illegally prosecuted. They were found guilty of the crimes the BLM is trying to impose, and served the sentences.

Chief Judge Aiken imposed five year prison terms on each of the Hammonds, with credit for time they already served.

from the .gov report.

They CANNOT legally be sentenced to more time, whether they deserve it or not. That is federal law.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: liveandlearn

How does double jepeordy work?

The Double Jeopardy Clause in the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution prohibits anyone from being prosecuted twice for substantially the same crime. See, e.g. United States v. Ursery, 518 US 267 (1996).

If something occurs in court where the judge dismisses charges it can result in 2 options(more but you will get the idea):

* - the ability for the prosecution to refile charges (hung jury / verdict overturned on appeal /etc)
* - charges can be dismissed with prejudice. Jeopardy is attached meaning the charges cannot be refiled. If an acquittal occurs charges cant be refiled. If a person is found guilty of lesser included offenses they cannot be charged again in hopes of getting a guilty verdict on the higher charges.

Lesser included offense example (Mo) -
A person can be charged with burglary or trespassing but not both at the same time. In order to commit burglary the person must unlawfully enter the premises, which is trespassing. Its a lesser included offense of a burglary/.

Also the Federal government and state government are separate sovereigns so it is possible to be charged with the same crime at both levels.

Hope this helps.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: liveandlearn

Man that's some BS. Why is the gov't so hell bent on sending them to prison?

This case to me looks like pure corrupted government reprisal all the way. Someone the principles rubbed the wrong way, or embarrassed them, like how the backfire made government look like girl scouts, or some other reason like Harry Reid's failed land steal using the BLM for the benefit of his family. Someone has made this event happen for revenge or agenda driven purposes. It's 100 percent dirty.

I don't see how they were convicted because this has "miscarriage of justice" written all over it. This fact could save them in an appeal.

My girl just mentioned this story (she's not on ATS). She said, "I bet this isn't all over major news networks because it's not Islamic terror or race-related".

I just checked MSNBC, CNN and FOX...not on any of them.

A judge can modify a verdict post conviction to increase the time. The avenue for the affected is to file a writ of habeas corpus. It challenges the action of the court by arguing their action action is an illegal detention / imprisonment. The argument will go before a judge who determines if the argument is valid or dismiss if invalid.

Interestingly enough Fox News has it on their website, however I don't have TV to know if it is being covered there or not.

www.foxnews.com...

a reply to: Xcathdra

Not if the sentence has already begun.

The welfare cowboys are back in the news.

originally posted by: Olivine
They have closed the Burns, OR schools all week because of these jackasses.
tweet from Oregonian senior reporter, Lee Zaitz

Reading, this Willamette Week article, some of the militia don't sound like they intend on returning alive.

"It's real simple, Dwight: Do you want to die in prison, labeled as a terrorist by these oppressors?" he asks. "Or do you want to die out here with us, as a free man? I want to die a free man."

--quote by militia member John Ritzheimer

I agree with Ritzheimer. When blatant miscarriages of justice are handed down through the old boys clubs in government, and when the scales of justice are heavily unbalanced with treasonous officials like our current administration, when they use the IRS as a private army and campaign enforcer, and the rest of the long list already seen in the past 7 years, it's time to understand what being free and being American means. I can see you sure don't.

The freedom that you have enjoyed up till now was made a reality by guys like John Ritzheimer, back a couple hundred years ago. Maybe the country doesn't deserve that anymore. You make that choice when you condemn these men, and it is a for sure deal that if tyranny goes unpunished, it will cause the demise of all, not just the bad guys they tell you are bad.

Those who support tyranny are the first ones the tyrannical kill. Think mass graves in every city. This is at the end of the stories in history.

So they burned land that didn't belong to them, got caught, and now a militia is backing them with armed force?

I actually own property near there and that area is pretty much known as the overflow of Idaho white supremacist groups (which is why I've never visited). These ranchers already get subsidized for running their for-profit business on land that doesn't belong to them and now they want even more entitlements for breaking the law?

This is not what Oregon is.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
My girl just mentioned this story (she's not on ATS). She said, "I bet this isn't all over major news networks because it's not Islamic terror or race-related".

I just checked MSNBC, CNN and FOX...not on any of them.

It's been pretty quite Pac NW regional wise on news of this as well. Though, NWCN, has a short video- see here on the protests, etc.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Xcathdra

Not if the sentence has already begun.

Yes and thats why we come back to the writ of habeas corpus. Its to determine if the action of the court is lawful.

The legal term is called post conviction relief.