Pope Francis should resign to cancel the prophetic doom on Rome

Another possibility to carry away the doom predicted for Rome, is to remove the se of Peter elsewhere. Jesus never ever said to Peter: "Go to Rome" or "rule the earth kings from Rome". Peter was in Jerusalem, then in Antioch before going to Rome.

Looking at the possible relocation of the Holy See, all Latin American countries would be more than happy to receive it. One may add to the list Philippines, and few European countries. Poland is not a good choice, with geopolitical problems and nearby conflict, none the least the secular wind came to that part of Europe too. No other European country is more devote than Italy. Spain would be just the same as Rome.

Jerusalem, however desired location by some, is non Christian country in first place, with constant conflict with ups and downs, and it brings associations to end time prophecies such as the antichrist. Peter was already in Jerusalem.

Philippines or Latin America then? If more than half of all Catholics live in Latin America, catholic countries established for more than 500 years, the choice seems obvious. Although the Philippines will think otherwise being the major catholic country in the biggest continent. Still majority is majority and every Latin American country has what the Philippines have, but they do not have one entire continent devoted to Jesus Christ.

See the crowds that greet every next pope when he goes to Brazil! May be Rio is a wonderful place created by God to replace the "eternal city" of Rome. Sanctity is not something inherited, it is something worked for and graced by God. Any city, including Rio, could be sanctified by holy men in God's service. No one is irreplaceable.

The patience of waiting for "reforms" reached its limits. But much more, Rome is the magnet for all those terrorists who do not hide their goals to not just destroy Rome but invade Rome. Even Trump said it is possible to happen. Then why to risk anymore, or said otherwise to "sacrifice" God's church? Isn't it enough all the crosses of the faithful throughout the world, to have that biggest one put on them all, not only on the pope that allegedly will be killed? Is it the will of God? Did the pope listen voices as allegedly other popes listened for 100 year reign of devil that is about to expire? Why didn't it expire then? Perhaps popes are as error prone as everyone of us. If Francis is the last pope in the list, of Roman bishops may be, if there is a future of the Catholic Church (and I believe there is), the Holy see will not be in Rome anymore. (may be not one See as well). We have to go back to the roots, and the verse of Jesus to Peter about the keys have nothing to do with Rome. Or the Roman administration, that is another issue. The world needs a new beginning, and if Rome is incapable of giving it to the world, someone else will.

On the wallpaper: the beautiful Rio gulf with Christ the Redeemer overlooking at it. The biggest statue of Jesus Christ in the world, in the most famous city for that. May be the will of God shown thru the inspiration of holy men and women who made it happen long ago. The country of the Holy Cross may turn to be the Refuge of Western Christianity. Unless the pope would like to flee in Siberia after Rome is destroyed this or that way.

Pope Francis should appoint more new Cardinals, Younger, Devote, Disinterested in power grab, and to do it much SOONER. Indeed he appointed a cardinal from Tonga, but does it fix the problems? We need a fresh start. If we are talking of any reset or any change, before what is known as prophecies to take place. I just don't understand why more time is being lost every next month! Do it now, or it is just a done thing. Waiting several more years to close the page and the book.


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originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: 2012newstart

3D printing is not extraterrestrial in origin. It is a natural outcome of computer controlled machinery and existing manufacturing methods.

Additive processes to construct objects have existed for millennia (consider a potter building up an urn by laying up thin cylinders of clay, or of a house built up of bricks). 3D printing is exactly this process on a smaller scale.

Millennia? You want to argue that what we see as 3D building a CAR with all details in it, for several hours, is aprocess known and done even ONCE in Thousands years? Don't you overestimate something?

It remains to explain how the computers appeared too. And how after living 5,000 years in primitive societies with chariot the biggest tech, at once we got to the industrial age, and after WW2, jump to rockets and to the Moon. It is just too much to be believed on human genius.

Will you feel better if the 3D is human invention and not extraterrestrial? The result is just the same. We have inventions that can decide the problems of starving humanity once and for all. Then why not NOW?

a reply to: 2012newstart

Prophesies are self fulfilling. Its like a bucket list for those who believe.

I am not knocking this as I do believe in the power of prophesy. I think we should make a return to prophesy.

I just think that in order to do that we must break the chains of past prophesies and the power we give them-

Maybe he simply doesnt want to stop them. Maybe he thinks like Zionists do that it is their duty to fulfill prophesy, not wait for it to fulfill itself.

I like the Malachi prophesies. They have a great ending.

I am serious. The church would better serve the original Christ message by ending its power for abuse and corruption.

I would rewrite the church and the faith once more. Maybe ten,

Or end it and make a new one. I think ending it is better.

Lord knows it is evil by its own standards, the only standards that count concerning its good or evil unto itself.

a reply to: tadaman

something is being prepared. Whether self-fulfillment or some change. One of the two. Real fulfillment is equal consequences as self fulfillment. But we are kept in dark to guess until the last moment. Therefore I take my chance to guess as best as I could. Others could do it too. After all, there are higher powers, God above them, who know what everyone of us thinks and does. I.e. by guessing my guess publicly, I make it one small piece of the fact that humanity somehow has grown up to the point to realize these things. Including thanks to internet that was given on purpose. It is useless to say to Francis what he should do. He doesn't read internet, and even if told he would do what he thinks as right, not what internet tells him. The problem is not personal. The problem is nothing happens already 3 years, plus the 8 years of Benedict. If nothing happens 3-4 years more, we reach logically to the end of the pontificate of Petrus Romanus, one way or another. Then, what's next? I argued in that line of thought and hope someone somewhere have a good use of it, even if only personally. But it is nothing personal. I like Francis, may be too much, to criticize him.

I think the Roman Catholic Church and the pontificate will soon under go major changes...
Money that could be used to the benefit of all mankind will be used for this purpose...
A full admission of and full disclosure of knowledge and misdealings with major crimes and sins committed by those in positions of power while in service to God...
Marriage for priests needs to become part of the institution the same for nuns...Also Nuns should take part in mass...
As for the pontificate the prophesies must be fulfilled and would also be in line with the fact I feel one man is incapable of representing Christ... and a good number to hold the highest position would best be filled by a nice familiar number like twelve...
Christ did not walk the earth to hide the truth from people or to stop them from being human... nor did he choose to be thier oppressor... No...he lived and died as man to elevate us...

Actually any all individuals who wish to avoid the wrath of God need to flee from false religion and the rest of this system in Satan's hands into God's modern-day "cities of refuge," his clean Christian congregation.

If the Pope, or anybody for that matter came to their senses and knew what is coming upon mankind, and really humbled themselves before God, in faith, they know they must flee her.

God's angel warns:

And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. (Rev18:4)

So it would not be remiss for the Pope, for any Bishop, Deacon, Father, or any adherent of false religion to leave her behind and find God's real servants.

Even political rulers are warned in Scripture that they too need to fear God and repent:

So now, you kings, show insight; Accept correction, you judges of the earth. Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Honor the son, or God will become indignant And you will perish from the way. (Psalm 2:10-12)

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I agree much of it.

Let me add, the pope and cardinals should involve the young people, as they always said in the last 30 years since St John Paul II introduced the World Youth Days. Unfortunately, those WYDs turned to be one sided lectures of cross and sacrifice, instead of two sided dialogue as originally intended. The Church must listen to the voice of the young, innocent, less interested in power grab or piles of money. Indeed it is hard to find such young people today, because the whole society is corrupt to survive. But...the change should start from somewhere. Unless we expect supernatural savior (and I develop that idea separately), we have to start from somewhere. There is much what to be told the hierarchy, including of the ET books that seem they completely disregard.

The problem is not only who had sex with whom (as we were told in the last 2 synods and in the MSM). Although that is a major problem and should be fixed ASAP within clergy's own ranks first. Report of pedophile cases to civil authority is necessary but will not decide the problem alone. Perhaps much was already done within the ranks, surely not enough. You can always retire someone in a secluded monastery, if that someone (regardless of age and position) doesn't behave properly. Marriage of priests (voluntary) is one thing that should be done. As it is permitted in the Eastern Orthodox Churches, as well as all kinds of protestant, Anglican, and new evangelical churches. Enough of bans of what is NOT a DOGMA.

Still, I think the sexual problem within clergy although major sin by itself, is not the biggest problem of the 1.2 bln Church, majority of whose priests are not offenders.

Neither was the divorce and remarriage, neither were the gay relations. (I do not put those two categories to the above!!!) Those things do exist in the Church and should be decided better, without losing 3 precious years that were destined for a real reform. Practically, the synods showed how weak the Church is, not how strong. A coupe of conservative hi ranks dictated over the majority of bishops what decisions to be taken, and they prevailed, "to save the unity". Pity!

I am not the person, and hardly anyone is the person who have all solutions right in front of himself. Not even the popes. Collective mind is necessary, but let that collective mind be not only aged cardinals for whom any reform, even the planned and desired one, ends dead on arrival as practice shows, for reasons unexplained. New people are needed with new ideas, that will help the existing princes to do what they probably wanted to do all their lives when they were young and full of enthusiasm.

The closure of the top offices wouldn't bring the magic renewal, however it would be the natural outcome if after 2000 years we go backward not forward, and continue seeing the "suffering and cross" as the only remedy for the Church, but not the Cross of Jesus rather imposed unwillingly cross to each and everyone of us. That kind of mentality is nightmare by itself. Perhaps not even 10% of all clergy support it wholeheartedly, but they gave oaths and are already in a system they have to live in and from it. It is a time to say things different. Jesus didn't ask everyone of us to die on a cross, so the popes shouldn't ask the same from the youths. Let they rather listen to the youths what have to say to them. Less doctrine and more spirit is needed in the Churches.

I guess the topic could be enlarged endlessly, in the next mega encyclical of the pope. If ther eis a time for such.

One of the worst threads, ever. Best Pope ever, so, of course some will want his resignation. He is a Pope that follows Jesus's teachings the MOST. The OP should be ashamed.


And that you think better than this learned man, shame on you!

WYD - it was a major change by John Paul II. I participated in several WYDs. Enthusiasm was great. BUT there was a repetition of well known teachings, with little changed phrases, as if those youths (at the time) didn't hear the Gospel at all. Indeed there were discussion groups of the "hot questions" such as contraceptives and condoms....The discussions of the pre-selected representative of bishop with the rest of youth, as preparation for WYD, was strictly controlled within the frames of the official church teaching, that was rather conservative at that time. (I don't know whether some contraceptives were already adopted since then, at least the condoms, to lessen the abortion rates). You know, if you plant totalitarian mind control from the very beginning, you won't get any new idea or fresh spirit out of such arranged mega rallies. Enthusiasm, yes, but that enthusiasm would die several years later when those young people meet the brutal reality of life where they should survive.

Completely new style is necessary, where the Church hi ranks are willing to listen to the ideas of the young (and not so young) who have what to say. I am not talking to allow 5 marriages each! I am talking of more philosophical questions, more futuristic solutions, such as introduction at fast rate of updated view and reread of the Bible about ET, new tech, and so on. Why not to make classes int he Pontifical Universities on such topics, and to educate the future priests that we are not alone in the Universe, and we should behave as being part of that Universe where Universal laws such as "do not kill" BUT ALSO "DO NOT STEAL" are inseparable part of it? That a new society is needed based on such principles, that the Church is destined to show it first within its own ranks before preaching it to the secular world? How the Church want to be believed on moral doctrines if her own members fall short of fulfilling them? Is it the members' error, or the doctrinal error, that is again not a DOGMA? How about the gospels that pop up from everywhere that Jesus had a wife, and possibly children? If we refuse such a major event from the life of Our Lord, for what followers of Christ we are talking about? They would be all false, one sided, fanatics. We have to get out of that dead end road, and that is not only the sexual that matters.

If I was pope and I am not, (nor striving to be one), I would appoint thousands new cardinals not even priests, who will be tasked to control the money spending and other affairs in each diocese. And much more than that. But you need more than centuries old doctrine to do that. You need fresh air and support of the Billion wide Catholics, who most likely support that. Not to repeat well known paradigm that is not a part of the whole teaching of Jesus. I do not want to repeat what already said. Jesus never said to Peter, go to Rome to crown kings. But, build up the Kingdom of God founded on the beatitudes.

Frankly, the chances of success of reform are slim, taking into account the advanced time 2016 and age of those who would have done it. I don't see it even 2 more years the status quo to survive. It can crumble under the hammers of the jihadists, as Trump warned the pope of that possibility (after CIA and Italian police). (I do not take side in the US presidential debate and that is not an opportunity to say how good or bad Trump's views are that are subject to other threads!) Having said that, the Vatican has really a very short time slot to decide something positive. Because if tomorrow a bomb explodes or mujaheddin start shooting with hundreds of Kalashnikov on St Peter's square, the Church leaders would be glad to have had the opportunity of change they are missing now as we speak. Not that the mujaheddin care of that change. But that change would bring the Catholic Church to a new better cleansed level corresponding to the hi demand of the 21st century, a level that is NOT SEEN in the last 30 years despite all good talks. Again, it is far not only sexual! The Church is supernatural found, therefore "extra-terrestrial" by origin and purpose! Let someone now bring in pre-Galileo doctrines to show how wrong I am!

vvv

a reply to: 2012newstart

It's not really the place for a satanist to be voicing thier opinion on these matters... infact I found it rather odd they had an opinion...
It is troubling to me even.. and points to other problems that dwell in the shadows of the church...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: 2012newstart

It's not really the place for a satanist to be voicing thier opinion on these matters... infact I found it rather odd they had an opinion...
It is troubling to me even.. and points to other problems that dwell in the shadows of the church...

.....Even if someone's standard of what is to be called "Catholic" falls short of recognizing that I defend the Catholic Church in long term!

Francis came to power in the name of reform. Such reform doesn't take place already 3 full years.

If he himself fails, he risks to fail the Catholic Church altogether, by not appointing new people instead of those who made the last 2 elections. His own election was a matter of compromise, after the resignation of the almost elected cardinal Ouellet of Montreal. It is all in the news.

About my faith:
Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God didn't really ask Peter to do what we see now done /not done in the today's Roman Catholic Church. That cannot remain in long term without drastic consequences, as prophesied in two approved prophecies by the Church itself - Malachi and Fatima official version. It is all said. Francis is the last chance of the Catholic church.

Or is there another one? If he appoints enough fresh minds as cardinals and then resigns, there will be another chance. The question is whether the hierarchy of the Catholic Church want to give that chance to her, or prefer to see her closed down.

Sorry but we are no more in the era of inquisition. Catholicism has more than one view, and one of the few good things of the Developed West is, it gave platform to those views in the public space. Something unthinkable in Communist Poland at the time of election of John Paul II when the Catholic doctrine was as strong. It was understandable at the time.

Today the ultra conservative doctrinal approach to acute problems of world society, 1/5 of which is called to be "Catholic", is not the best approach in 21st century. I'd call THAT satanism in its most veiled and shadowed form.

I believe Francis does not follow that road, rather wants to CHANGE IT. However, for 3 years little was shown as real change. The 2 Synods that took all the energy of the Catholic Church, were a complete fiasco.

The Catholic Church (be it Roman in the future or not) has only one way ahead: to open herself even more wider to world problems. As Francis already started doing by acknowledging issues like Global Warming and presence of Aliens. I hope it doesn't come as too little too late. Clock is ticking, one does not have to be Catholic to see that. "God is not Catholic" said cardinal Martini. But also one does not have to follow outdated doctrinal approach in order to be Catholic! Tomorrow's Catholic will be like that, may be much more open than my own wild imagination.

a reply to: 2012newstart

In order to bring the "larger picture" of the Bible and Gospel to the 1 bln masses, not only acknowledge of pope Francis is needed, that the "beings of the Universe" do exist among the trillions of stars, or that "a delegation from Mars" would be baptized if they ask for, even if they have big ears and long nose. Indeed the Vatican did 2 scientific conferences in the last 5 years on topic of exo-planetary life. That remained closed scientific events and did not reach to the core of Catholic faithful worldwide. OK I know of them, and you know of them, and ATS knows of them. But that is not the entire Catholic world!

Much more than that is needed, and much more SPEEDY! For example, not only courses in the Pontifical Academies on the larger reread of the Bible in reference to angelic extraterrestrial presence, but also courses in each Diocese to intelligently inform the most knowledgeable among the Catholic faithful and priests of that perspective. That is the only perspective in long term existence of the Catholic Church!

Much beyond today's hot questions of how many marriages or gay relations, that exist anyway for...until the time of Jesus. (The Samaritan woman had 7, and Jesus healed the gay slave of the Roman centurion, to name a few). During all her history, the Catholic Church had those issues, and some of them such as married priests and permission (not desired though!) of 3 marriages do exist in the Orthodox sister churches. About the gay clergy in the monasteries, it is a public secret described well by skillful writers. It is nothing new under the sun, as the Romans say.

THAT is NOT the biggest problem of the Catholic or any other Church. The biggest problem is, the world is going into a dead end, and the most intelligent people in all churches realize that. That is NOT Armageddon though. The idea somehow to capture Jesus Christ himself in the ill conceived traps of humanity to bring a faster to come Second Coming, is just not serious. You can't command Lord Jesus to come down, even if you appoint one or many antichrists! There were enough in history. Because Jesus Christ obeys God, and it seems the time allotted to the Universe (not only the planet Earth) is much greater than our limited human reasoning. We have more time and we should prepare to live it the way Jesus taught us. Does the Catholic Church prepare for that, or some of her leading members wait for the passing of Francis and BTW their own.

If I called for resignation in case Francis doesn't have strength or other capability to carry out reform, it is not because I don't like the reformer Francis, but because his failure will be failure of the whole Church. He is not eternal at 78 and with illnesses that are not often spoken of. Surely he thinks of what happens after he passes away or retires, as he himself said he would do if the reform fails. So what happens after him, that is only after 2-3-4 years maximum? Unless there are pills to prolong life to decades more. We have to acknowledge the Catholic Church is in drastic need of new start, and its hierarchy doesn't seem to be capable of doing that right now. One possible solution is, appoint fresh hierarchy ASAP, even in the form of cardinals who are not consecrated bishops whose voice will be heard though. Other possibilities may exist, I never pretended to have much more than a tiny piece of the big picture. But we have to see those solutions surface ASAP without any more delay in fruitless debate.

So to call me I am anti-Francis is the most stupid thing I ever read in my threads! I defend the reform of Francis and oppose those who oppose it! The problem is, as already argued in length, whether that reform is fast enough and deep enough, or whether we walk straight into Malachi prophecy that may or may not be self-fulfilled. That is a Catholic approach of concern for the Church. I will not decide that. Let it be more people to write on that, not less! It is quite stupid to try to silence the few genuine posters that speak about that! They are not many, they are not only me as well. The voice of the billion catholics should be heard, and those intelligent leaders should take intelligent decisions as well.

a reply to: 2012newstart

The only other Logical explanation of the apparent inactivity of hierarchy: buying time before a planetary doom event that they know of it and don't want to share that knowledge. Here come all scenarios such as Nibiru.

My own estimations lead me to believe such scenario won't happen before 30-40 years to 150 years in near future. But some say, it is much nearer, and it constitutes the essential part of Fatima. I'd rather want to believe Fatima concerns ET + the danger of WW3, but I may be wrong. What if indeed planetary, comet or other danger is coded in ancient books and modern prophecies?

If so, the hierarchy is even more obliged to act and save people. Not to postpone to the last moment things that should be revealed in 1960 (as I discuss in length in Fatima thread).

Whether it is planetary cataclysm, or whether it is evolution towards a better world society, the encounter with the Divine AND with the extra-terrestrial is imminent. We'd better be ready for all eventuality.

Here is one more composition dealing with Fatima = Nibiru issue


imgur.com...

The Church must acknowledge what it failed to do since the last Church Council and even before that. Because those things date back to Pius XII at least.

I will repeat, that if the hierarchy fails to hear the voice of the people, the rightful demands of the people, again and again, and fails also to hear the voice of Heaven (Fatima etc), then the World After will know a different kind of Christianity without the structure that is not created by Jesus himself and that does not fulfill its crucial mission today. Let it not be so, let we see new younger people inside the oldest institution on Earth who can teach others and save others. The rest is to expect inevitable end, and that is NOT found in the Gospel of life. Although I am not a good preacher, we believe in the Resurrected Lord Jesus not in a dead never risen one. In the alive Jesus who brings life to his followers, not death and destruction. I know many of the church fathers thought otherwise and wanted to see everyone crucified. Perhaps their desire of worldwide sacrifice would be best accomplished if Nibiru kill us all and we don't know until th elast time. But that I would call satanic, having nothing in common with the Risen Lord Jesus.