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NEWS: Appeals Court Throw Out Andrea Yates Conviction

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posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 05:16 PM
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quote

They ought to put her in a padded room and give her six bullits just in case the first 5 failed to hit the mark!



Yep, but not only that, they should have a backup plan - An armed guard ready to take target practice just in case she misses.




posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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I think the husband is just as guilty. Okay, their insurance ran out, he still had to know she shouldn't be alone with the kids.

I fear if she is taken out of circulation, either in prison or mental facility, he would divorce her and find another woman to program.

As for the verdict, if the episode didn't exist, the ruling to overturn was proper, if not what she deserved. The gall of that expert witness



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 06:46 PM
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I think the husband is just as guilty. Okay, their insurance ran out, he still had to know she shouldn't be alone with the kids.


I can't say that I disagree with you on this. The husband should absolutely bear some of the blame. SOME of the blame. He didn't actually commit this horrible tragedy, but he did nothing to stop it either.
She should be sentenced to capitol punishment, he should be investigated for further wrongsoing. Five babies were murdered. End of story in my opinion. May both of the parents, as well as the "doctors" who were "caring" for her burn in fire and brimstone forever.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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This is a very sore subject with me. My parents were killed in a car crash when I was a toddler. I was separated from my sister, and we live in foster homes. My adopted "family" was so wonderful to me. I have my problems, however I know right from wrong. Dave & Barb showed me love, and NEVER hurt me. They eventually adopted my sister as well. Mom & Dad I miss you more than you'll ever know, but Barb & Dave I love you soooo much. How anyone could hurt babies is beyond me. I have an extremely large imagination, a bizarre sense of humor, a sense of what is important, and what is not. Babies I pray that you rest in peace.
I do not say lightly that this waste of skin should die.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by sandge

Originally posted by superdude
I'm stewing over this.


Really? Her conviction was overturned because a star witness for the prosecution lied under oath to provide one of the most damning pieces of evidence. Our legal system actually worked this time, and you're "stewing" over it?

The conviction of Yates was an act of revenge, not justice. The woman was not sane at the time of her actions; therefore, she was not legally guilty.


Please don't take offense to this because I am not directing this at "you" but rather this idea of protecting women like this. Ok.. this woman murders her children and everyone comes to the plate to make excuses for her. But if a man does it he is simply a cold blooded killer. PP depression is an excuse... not a valid reason. So she was suffering? Like I care. She mudered her children. Let the monster die on the chair. She is evil. Are you going to allow depression or bipolar disorder to be an excuse for a man killing someone? PP is a lame excuse in my opinion. I don't care of she had the IQ of 70. Let the witch die.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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Hmmm.... she kills her kids because god told her to... how come she isn't a saint? Everyone else who talks to god is a saint, how come she isn't? Isn't the whole bible based on people talking to god? So shouldn't she be a saint? Sorry, my shot at christians who think talking to god isn't nuts, when they all follow a book written by people who talked to god, lol.(How sad is that?)

Anyways, she got life? WTF? Where is the death penalty? Isn't she in texas? What? She is the only person not to get the death penalty. A kid stealing candy from 7/11 gets the death penalty in texas but she drowns her kids and she gets life? Damn, why does Bush have to be president and not the gov. of Texas?

Indy, if she was a witch she wouldn't have done this, witches believe in Do What One Wilt, As Long As Yee Harm None.

Also, that is great, she was depressed, so she is allowed to drown 5 kids. I am depressed, so I am going to go out and burn a old folks home down. Not my fault, I was...... depressed. Oh, I am depressed again, I gonna go set the cat shelter on fire. Not my fault, I was.... depressed.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by James the Lesser]



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 07:17 PM
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i would argue the point about christians killing babies which is nowhere in the bible just the opposite but the Bible says do not cast your pearls among the swines. matthew 7-6



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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I think that it is clear that there is still a vast misunderstanding of mental disorders. These people are not responsible for their actions--to execute them because they are defective is the same a murder.

My sister is a paranoid schizophrenic. When she first became ill, she heard voices. She took a hammer to the walls of my parent's living room because she thought that the FBI planted listening devices in them. She ripped up the upholstery looking for bugs. She would hear people say things that they didn't say (many times, I was present or was the person accused of saying something I didn't say.) She constantly called the police to the house because she thought people were following her. She saw things that weren't there. She couldn't watch TV because it said evil things to her (same with the phone.) She sometimes didn't recognize me and accused me of being "after her." She began hoarding kitchen knives and threatened to kill me and my parents if we came near her--she didn't know who we were and assumed that we were going to steal things from her. She thought we were all involved in some elaborate scheme--sometimes to frame her and send her to jail, sometimes to kill her. At first, my parents were reluctant to put her in a hospital, so for a few scary months, I was never left alone with my sister and we were careful to lock our doors at night.

Should my sister have been jailed for thinking about stabbing me and my parents? Should she have been given the death penalty if she had succeeded and killed one or all of us? It would have been a tragedy, but clearly no--she thought we were bogeymen coming to kill her. Instead, she was eventually hospitalized and properly medicated. Now, she is more than functioning due to her medication--for the past fifteen years, she has no symptoms whatsoever and is a fully functioning member of the community.

Postpartum psychosis occurs in about 1 in 1000 women who give birth--typically those who are already suffering from a mental disorder. These women suffer from depression and mania, and also experience paranoia and hallucinations. If this condition is left untreated, as it was in the case of Andrea Yates, it can result in infanticide (4% of cases) because the mother loses touch with reality. Yates' husband is more to blame for not recognizing that her illness needed to be treated and rendered her incapable of caring for her children.

My experience with my sister has made me come to understand how those who are mentally ill are victims. While this was a tragedy, to execute Yates would be even more of a tragedy. She should be institutionalized and treated.

www.pregnancy-info.net...
www.web4health.info...
depression.about.com...



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by amb1063

she wasn't a danger to society in general..............just to her family......specifically the children...........

i'm NOT condoning what the lady did..........it was a terrible terrible tragedy. i just don't think she was a danger to anyone but HERSELF and to the family.

that doesn't make it RIGHT............but she WAS insane at the time of the deaths to the children.

but that's my opinion..........i don't mean to be difficult on this point but i feel strongly about this. i've worked with women that have had true postpartum psychosis (i spent 14yrs working obstetrics) and it truly is something that is a VERY VERY real issue and VERY VERY scary for the families involved.

none of the patients that i had direct contact with killed family members. 1 did do serious damage to herself though. the only reason that she survived was IMMEDIATE intervention by family members.

that is what bothers me about this...........there were signs and the husband didn't act on them.



I agree with you absolutely. And unfortunately it happens way too often because women become too ill mentally to know they need help in many instances. What they are experiencing in their minds is a real to them as breathing is to you and me.. Just last month in Toronto the whole city was shocked and tramatized when a 26 year old mother (also an Andrea) fatally stabbed her husband, 3 year old daughter and then herself. She also stabbed her 2 year old, who thankfully survived. Her 7 month old was unharmed.

To all outward signs, the people who knew the family and relatives never sensed anything was wrong, she appeared to be a wonderful mother, but the sad reality is that she was a ticking time bomb. I think it was something to do with her relatively young age and having 3 children in rapid succession. I mean, think of it, she was constantly pregnant and/or breastfeeding. Her hormones would have been all over the map, she would probably have been exhausted all the time.

www.cbc.ca...

www.npr.org...


So although I feel terribly about those poor sweet babies who were drowned by Andrea Yates she was insane at the time. Put her away for life. One thing is for sure - if the money spent on trying an insane woman were put in to research into the disease, education and support it would be money far better spent.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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It was the judge's fault-



[54] We conclude that there is a reasonable likelihood that Dr. Dietz's false testimony could have affected the judgment of the jury. We further conclude that Dr. Dietz's false testimony affected the substantial rights of appellant. Therefore, the trial court abused its discretion in denying appellant's motion for mistrial.


here is the appeal
www.1stcoa.courts.state.tx.us...

here is the case file
www.1stcoa.courts.state.tx.us...

*edit add comment
After someone reads the Yates appeal give some thought to the 'why' government is much needed to intervene sometimes.

Warning signs abounded in this woman's sad life. With Texas (USA) being under a shrunken mental health and child care budget how many more of these horrific cases exist?

For the sake of children government sometimes is the only salvation. Their extended family didn't save them. Neither did the government. Their mother killed them and may have murdered them.

In real life government has a role if it only has the means to exercise it.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by JoeDoaks]



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 03:15 AM
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The prosecution dropped the baby. Whenever an expert witness is produced, his credentials and his experience are paramount. This forms the basis of the pedestal from which he testifies. Being in the business, I just cannot believe that they missed this one. Every line, every pause and nuance of the expert's testimony would be gone through over and over again, even before he steps into Court.

The prosecution obviously are gonna appeal this appeal. Drain on tax payers and family and everyone (including the Accused). Guys, remember always innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Blame for the re-trial ? Well, rests on the prosecution. He was their extremely material witness and he lied. Clear cut.

Blame for the crime ? Speculation as to why that many children ? Why she slipped through the very large cracks in the social services system ? Why was there no budget allocated for red flag cases ? Why did her (as some would say) monster husband allow this ? Neighbours ? Relatives ? Friends ? Teachers ? Should we burn the insurance company ?

As a matter of interest, it would be good to know if anyone has any experiences with the system not being able to take case of blatantly obvious red flag cases which resulted in tragedies ?

Why ? Because this seems like a decent neighbourhood to get to understand the social and economic problems of society and perhaps try to make a change.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 06:04 AM
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always learning...........thanks for the support on this.

i think that some people are not understanding the difference in pp depression and post partum psychosis........there is a HUGE difference.

i'm off to google and get some info...........i'll be back with more info.

angie



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 06:15 AM
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ok i'm back with info on pp depression vs psychosis...........

here goes.

i've included the links where i pulled this info from.


www.mentalhealth.org.uk...

What is postnatal depression?
The term "baby blues" is often used to describe a short period of mild depression which many women experience after having a baby. But, sadly, up to 10 per cent of new mothers go on to develop full-blown postnatal depression (PND).
Many new mothers experience this severe depression without recognising it or realising that it is a treatable illness. This causes needless distress which also affects family and friends.
Text
Mothers with puerperal psychosis need to be treated by a psychiatrist. It may be possible for you to be treated at home, but hospital admission is usually necessary - some hospitals have specialist mother and baby psychiatric units. Treatment is usually with anti-psychotic and anti-depressant drugs.


www.womensmentalhealth.org...

Postpartum Psychosis

Postpartum psychosis is the most severe form of postpartum psychiatric illness. It is a rare event that occurs in approximately 1 to 2 per 1000 women after childbirth. Its presentation is often dramatic, with onset of symptoms as early as the first 48 to 72 hours after delivery. The majority of women with puerperal psychosis develop symptoms within the first two postpartum weeks.
It appears that in most cases, postpartum psychosis represents an episode of bipolar illness; the symptoms of puerperal psychosis most closely resemble those of a rapidly evolving manic (or mixed) episode. The earliest signs are restlessness, irritability, and insomnia. Women with this disorder exhibit a rapidly shifting depressed or elated mood, disorientation or confusion, and erratic or disorganized behavior. Delusional beliefs are common and often center on the infant. Auditory hallucinations that instruct the mother to harm herself or her infant may also occur. Risk for infanticide, as well as suicide, is significant in this population.

Puerperal psychosis is considered a psychiatric emergency that typically requires inpatient treatment. Acute treatment with either typical or atypical anti-psychotic medications is indicated. Given the well-established relationship between puerperal psychosis and bipolar disorder, postpartum psychosis should be treated as an affective psychosis and a mood stabilizer is indicated. Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) is well tolerated and rapidly effective for severe postpartum depression and psychosis. "



ok..................as you can see this is NOT just being a bit depresssed. it is a true medical mental health emergency............as i stated to begin with.....this person WASN'T a danger to the general population........just to herself and her child/children.

having "god" tell her to kill the children is a classic AUDITORY HALLUCINATION.

for those of you that are out here making sweeping statements about the EVILNESS of this woman.............you might need to do some reading and research before you fully form your opininon.

this woman was MENTALLY ILL...............SEVERELY SO..........

unfortunately mental illness is very misunderstood in our world we live in and until you have first hand experience in dealing with it............or you have done some research to understand the magnitude of this horrible disease...........you won't fully understand.

angie



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 08:18 AM
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for those of you that are out here making sweeping statements about the EVILNESS of this woman.............you might need to do some reading and research before you fully form your opininon.

this woman was MENTALLY ILL...............SEVERELY SO..........

unfortunately mental illness is very misunderstood in our world we live in and until you have first hand experience in dealing with it............or you have done some research to understand the magnitude of this horrible disease...........you won't fully understand.



No one, including myself is arguing the fact that she was/is mentally ill - ok fine, that's a shame, it truly is. That being said, she is a menace to society, and IS A MURDERER - in fact some might say a mass murderer. Do everyone, including her, and execute her. She tried to commit suicide, so let her.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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SD..........

i guess my point is this and that's why i was going to the lengths i was.......there are different types of mental illness.........

this person did not seem to be capable of any type of rational decision at the time of the deaths.

when dealing with this level of illness............it is difficult to apply logic to something and someone who was NOT capable of logic at the time she committed her acts against the children.

angie



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by superdude
No one, including myself is arguing the fact that she was/is mentally ill - ok fine, that's a shame, it truly is. That being said, she is a menace to society, and IS A MURDERER - in fact some might say a mass murderer. Do everyone, including her, and execute her. She tried to commit suicide, so let her.


But how could you advocate the execution of someone who is mentally ill, especially when the illness is such that it only makes her dangerous to her children and her family (and it is treatable)?

Also, it is clear that she was suffering from paranoid delusions when she commited the killings--isn't execution an extreme response?

If someone slipped a significant amount of '___' into your soda, which resulted into your having paranoid delusions and going on a brutal killing spree, which included several children, should you be put to death?

You commited the killing, but clearly the '___' and the person who gave it to you was responsible. Do you think that you would still be guilty of murder and should be sentenced to death?

Can you see the parallel to mental illness? Andrea Yates killed her children, but she was having paranoid delusions. She was mentally ill and it is ethically wrong to execute her for something that she did when she wasn't in control of her actions.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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If someone slipped a significant amount of '___' into your soda, which resulted into your having paranoid delusions and going on a brutal killing spree, which included several children, should you be put to death?


The short answer, yes I should be put to death if I committed murder. I can tell you from experience though back in my high school days many moons ago - that large amounts of '___' didn't make me feel like killing someone.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by superdude

The short answer, yes I should be put to death if I committed murder. I can tell you from experience though back in my high school days many moons ago - that large amounts of '___' didn't make me feel like killing someone.


Well, when I was in high school, I did witness some pretty serious '___'-related violence--one guy wound up in the hospital with a cracked skull because he was attacked by his friend. Too much speed in the mix perhaps.

I guess I don't understand the logic--if you were unknowingly drugged, not in control of your actions, and it resulted in you killing someone, why would you think that you should be held responsible and put to death?



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 09:54 AM
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when dealing with this level of illness............it is difficult to apply logic to something and someone who was NOT capable of logic at the time she committed her acts against the children.


First off I'd like to say that while I may not agree with you, that I admire your passion for this, and your arguments are quite valid.


That being said, I still say that she is a menace. She, as you had pointed out to me, had a history of mental illness. And not just "pop a prozac" kind either. I've said it before, I'll say it again, while I understand your argument, and I really do, I do not agree with it. Let me ask you this, assuming that she is to spend the rest of her life in a mental facility, what would be the quality of life. I assume that she would be so medicated that she would be a virtual vegetable. Is this true? I'll await your answer before I go on to the second part of my rebuttal.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 09:55 AM
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No one, including myself is arguing the fact that she was/is mentally ill - ok fine, that's a shame, it truly is. That being said, she is a menace to society, and IS A MURDERER - in fact some might say a mass murderer. Do everyone, including her, and execute her. She tried to commit suicide, so let her.

To execute her (and capital punishment is an abomination), is to sweep the problem under the rug like it doesn't exist. Post partum psychosis is a serious mental illness and the sooner society takes it seriously the better. Executing a mentally ill woman will not bring back those poor children. Research and solutions may stop another woman from going down the same road.

I wonder what the stats are for women suffering this illness who commit murder and/or suicide world-wide or US/Canada. Any ideas amb1063?



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