NEWS: Appeals Court Throw Out Andrea Yates Conviction

I don't believe for a minute that she didn't know what she was doing. What about all the people that just "snap"? Should excuses be made for them as well? Alot of them have no idea what they are doing. I had a friend who just "snapped" and killed another friend. I don't think even afterwards he knew what he had done. Doesn't matter. He murdered someone and is a danger to society and should pay the price. Fortunately he ended up taking his own life and punishment was no longer an issue. If you want to sit here and find excuses for people I'm sure we can get everyone off of death row eventually.

Treat first - punish last. If treatment doesn't work, then you think about the options

In some cases, perhaps. But I mean very few when they are of this magnitude. She killed, wait let's go further. As a Mommy to 5 children, she called her 5 CHILDREN one by one into the bathroom. She then picked them up and put them in the bathtub where they were used to getting their "bathies". (Jeezus I have tears n my eyes right now)
She then took her OWN BABIES, and picked them up as Mommies are supposed to do, put them in the tub......
Then she held them under water as they struggled, and begged MOMMY to help them.
She WAITED, WATCHED and HELD these poor babies under water, AS THEY LOOKED UP AT HER THROUGH THE WATER. Waitng for them to die. THEY WERE BABIES! Jeezus- there is just no argument.
Then she went on to the next child.
Sorry, I'm having trouble seeing my keyboard right now....
Mods - go ahead and take away everything, but I'm going to say it -
KILL THIS BITCH!

I would trade my $20,000 van for the right to throw the switch on this b**tch! I would sleep better knowing she wasn't on this planet anymore.

I would trade my $20,000 van for the right to throw the switch on this b**tch! I would sleep better knowing she wasn't on this planet anymore.

I agree fully with you. I have ZERO compassion for her. ZERO. I understand that she was victim to a terrible disease, that frankly I didn't know much about before this thread started - but she still deserves to die.

Originally posted by superdude

SD
are you STILL ranting on about this woman???? its been a week!! calm yourself!!

Oh yeah! Good to hear from you - even if you are a misguided soul. I am soooo looking forward to debating you on this issue!

So how've you been? It's been a little while. Hope all is well with you.

i've been out here i just hadn't had anything much to add to this particular thread............and i don't like to beat a dead horse~~~~~~

Hey Amb - good to hear from you. Yeah, I'll keep beating this horse - when it comes to kids, I can't stop myself from being so passionate.

Originally posted by superdude
Hey Amb - good to hear from you. Yeah, I'll keep beating this horse - when it comes to kids, I can't stop myself from being so passionate.

that's ok..........i'm the same way...........but equally passionate about mental illness and the horrific outcomes if it goes untreated.

that's ok..........i'm the same way...........but equally passionate about mental illness and the horrific outcomes if it goes untreated.

Cool, I admire that trait. So what else do you enjoy around here?

Superdude, Indy and all - What this woman did is horrific. No doubt about it. Even six months ago I would have been just as passionate about it as you are, and maybe, screaming for blood.

But now, I'm asking you to step back and look at what happened in a larger context. Yates is not the only American to go postal - similar crimes are becoming increasingly common and now are practically epidemic. From road rage to domestic abuse and spousal murders - we're seeing more of the same every day, more often, and the crimes are getting worse.

I am saying that it's not a moral problem or a social one. I'm saying that it results from an epidemic physical disease that affects certain peoples' brains in particular ways.

I'm saying it's preventable - and if the problem is not acknowledged, and dealt with it's going to rip our country apart, one person, one death at a time.

I have this disease and I've researched it thoroughly. And I know - there, but for the grace of God, go I.

I also know that nearly 100% of the US population is infected by this disease, called fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD). It usually takes decades to create symptoms, but some people are not so lucky. It doesn't make everyone nuts, but again, some people are not so lucky. ...Should we really punish these sick people even more for their misfortune?


.

I have this disease and I've researched it thoroughly. And I know - there, but for the grace of God, go I.

Wow, so you can give us some real insights then. I'd love to know more. The first part of your post is asking that we look at it from a larger perspective. I agree with you on that, it's just that this thread was about this particular woman.
Looking at it from a broader perspective though, you're right, many people go postal. For example: I drive quite a bit for my job, and there have been times I was so angry due to the antics of another driver that I wished very nasty things happen to other drivers, but I never did anything. We all have had things that made us so angry that we were almost to the edge, but the majority don't act on it.
This particular crime was so heinous that it warrants some of the words said in this thread.
Do I think that someone should be punished if they have a disease that makes their actions uncontrollable?
YES I DO.
Let me clarify that. If someone murders another person, because he/she didn't know what they were doing, then that makes them a danger to you, me, and everyone else out there. Should we slap their wrist, and say "it's ok, you didn't know what you were doing. Please try not to murder any more of your children, OK?"
These people should be taken out of society permanently. Treatment is fine and dandy, but there is a very high percentage of patients who play with, or stop taking their meds entirely.
I would be remiss to not ask the question, having this disease, have you ever "lost control"?

Originally posted by superdude

I have this disease and I've researched it thoroughly. And I know - there, but for the grace of God, go I.

I would be remiss to not ask the question, having this disease, have you ever "lost control"?

No. I'm one of the lucky ones - it doesn't affect my brain in that way - plus unlike most, I have a diagnosis - I know what's happening to my body and how to deal with it, and even how to slow disease progression.

...your post is asking that we look at it from a larger perspective. I agree with you on that, it's just that this thread was about this particular woman.

...Do I think that someone should be punished if they have a disease that makes their actions uncontrollable?
YES I DO.

...These people should be taken out of society permanently.

...So you are relieved to know that this administration accepts your logic, and applies the principles across the board. Sick people are being taken out of society permanently, in many different ways.

Remember that nearly 100% of the US population is infected with FMD - and think about the implications.

...For example, one of FMD's more common early symptoms is high blood pressure (HBP), caused by spasming blood vessels. About 60% of FMD patients have HBP - again, I'm one of the lucky ones. But here's the dirt:

1. 60% of the US population has or is at risk for HBP.

2. HBP affects mental competency - causing cognitive decline and dementia in young people as well as old - and also is linked to severe brain lesions - even in young people.

3. A recent study published by the American Medical Association advocates mandatory "mental competence testing" for voters.

4. The University of Pennsylvania now is developing a policy paper to establish terms for testing voter competency.


This is just one example of how your logic and your tax dollars work for you.

The simple solution, which you recommend, is to get rid of the flawed, diseased and unfortunate - and remove them from society. The same logic is applied whether we're talking murderers, abusers or incompetent voters. ...and the fact that it's all preventable is lost in the muddy murky waters of population control.

IMHO - your solution is simple, straightforward, and just a tad short-sighted.





REFS
1. content.health.msn.com...
2. www.healthfinder.gov...
www.medscape.com...
NOTE: Medscape is a respected medical journal; registration is free.
www.heartcenteronline.com...
3. health.discovery.com...
4. www.uphs.upenn.edu...
maillist.linuxmednews.org...



[edit on 14-1-2005 by soficrow]

[edit on 14-1-2005 by soficrow]

The simple solution, which you recommend, is to get rid of the flawed, diseased and unfortunate - and remove them from society. The same logic is applied whether we're talking murderers, abusers or incompetent voters. ...and the fact that it's all preventable is lost in the muddy murky waters of population control.

IMHO - your solution is simple, straightforward, and just a tad short-sighted.

First let me say that I am glad that you are one of the lucky ones.

Don't quote me out of context. I do not advocate, nor did I imply that we should remove "the flawed, diseased and unfortunate".
What I said is that those who have committed a murder, regardless of their faculties, should be removed.
If it was the flawed, diseased and unfortunate I would like to take outof society, then I myself would be gone for sure.
I advocate people getting help, I do. I admire your courage to face your disease head on, and do what you have to do to treat it.

Originally posted by superdude

The simple solution, which you recommend, is to get rid of the flawed, diseased and unfortunate - and remove them from society. The same logic is applied whether we're talking murderers, abusers or incompetent voters. ...and the fact that it's all preventable is lost in the muddy murky waters of population control.

IMHO - your solution is simple, straightforward, and just a tad short-sighted.

Don't quote me out of context. I do not advocate, nor did I imply that we should remove "the flawed, diseased and unfortunate".

My point is that whether you realize it or not, that is exactly what you are advocating, by extension and implication.


(I know you're a good guy, and don't really want that - I'm trying to show you how it all fits together and follows, whether you like it or not.)

I'm trying to show you how it all fits together and follows, whether you like it or not.)

It's cool, Bud!
We're both entitled to our opinions - that's what's so great about this country, and this board.
There's nothing like a good debate. Just say what you're thinking - I know I always do!
Stay Cool.

So I see this woman is back claiming her innocence. Anyone have any arguments pro or con?

She belongs in a mental institution, preferably for the rest of her life........
I hope she didn't get out and is running around untreated for her illness, simply because the prosecution made a major blunder and brought in a liar for an "expert witness"!!! That wouldn't be good! this lady needs to be locked up, until we can get about 25 or so "expert witnesses" all agreeing that she isn't a danger to anyone.

ya know, I read all these posts with utter hatred towards this women, no mention of the father....ummm.....nothing to say to a man who knowingly leaves his kids with a dangerously insane women (mother or not) and goes happily along his way? he knew danged well her mind wasn't right, and well, from what I remember, these guys weren't that bad off financially....he should have found alternative care for them. but, na....no one will mention this.....