An Uncreated Universe

originally posted by: cryptic0void
a reply to: scorpio84

Your curiosity is first cause, then. Thanks for expressions of compassion.

So, I cause everything? We are all part of individual overlapping universes?

a reply to: scorpio84

You have a hard time differentiating between a self and an ego, hence the challenging nature of your communications.
You primary origination then is defense and aggression, attempting to create a gain for the ego construct.
If that is not the case, carry on, if that is the case, carry on. overlapping, non overlapping, super ego, id, god, demon, the primary cause is beyond the avenues of dualistic discusursiveness. No cause of cause are equal opposed layers of surface tension. What encompasses both, do you think?

originally posted by: scorpio84
Whether or not one believes in deities, it seems that there is at least a common consensus that everything has an origin. In this post, I'd like to put it to the ATS community that there is no "first cause" and that the question of creation is superfluous. Do you agree? If it be the case that there was no creative event, how does/should that influence our perspective of our world, the universe, and reality?

I think it would have a very ill effect on society. Actions have consequences. Accountability is key in society. I say this only because purpose would be lost.

originally posted by: scorpio84
If it be the case that there was no creative event, how does/should that influence our perspective of our world, the universe, and reality?

My opinion is that it shouldn't influence any of that. If you need to believe in an all powerful god to find hope in life, and treat others with kindness, then that is your problem. Many folks think that if this were proven that it would mean life is completely meaningless and it wouldn't matter if we just went around killing and stealing. I don't agree.

The thing is, we are here, now. We can either work together and make a better world for our future grandchildren or we can continue to fight over which myth is true (if any). Our origin is irrelevant and it's in the distant past. We can't change it. Instead of arguing about what we don't know, let's try to figure it out or at the very least talk about what we have in common.

a reply to: onthedownlow

Why do you think accountability would be lost?

The interesting part of this discussion is that we are asking the question. The Universe is literally trying to discover it's origin through us.... as we are a part of the Universe. Kind of boggles the mind a bit.

I like to think that the fundamental question that needs answering is this: Did the Universe give rise to consciousness? Or did consciousness give rise to the Universe?

Max Plank said it best:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."

~ Max Planck

All the rest is just....

a reply to: Blarneystoner

Kind of boggles the mind a bit.

It certainly does.

Did the Universe give rise to consciousness? Or did consciousness give rise to the Universe?

Or are they inseparable with both occurring eternally simultaneously?

a reply to: scorpio84

I agree with you somewhat

Creation is only possible in a matrix of creation


Humans have been enraptured in a matrix of creation...it’s called mythologically the forbidden tree.


Of course there is no first cause ultimately and if there were it could never be detected or found.


Things aren’t exactly created they only spring form something else and you’ll never find its origin…if you tried you’d go on forever


You could never find it because reality is not vertical or horizontal it is circular therefore eternal—no beginning or end.

a reply to: Willtell

You could never find it because reality is not vertical or horizontal it is circular therefore eternal—no beginning or end.

That pretty much sums it up.

a reply to: scorpio84

I think the crux of the conundrum is that concept of "eternity" would have to exist outside the construct of Space/Time. So, there's this "other place" where space/time doesn't exist... maybe... :-)

a reply to: Blarneystoner

I'm going to go off on some tangential thinking right now - and maybe this is completely impossible -

but is it possible space/time do not exist, per se? I was just reading earlier that the reason light can be all places at one time is that it neither passes through time nor travels across distance. For us, we see it - but from the photon's perspective, it's just standing still.

originally posted by: rigel4
The question should be .... How was the first matter created?

Impossible to answer.. my puny mind says the answer is

too stupefying for any human mind to ever ever understand ..

there cant even be any serious theories to this question.

I have one.

I shall post it when one gets 20 posts under belt.

one can only guess, but one thing is for sure; natural things are absolutely precise. The closer you look at them the more beautiful they appear. This definitely isn't some randomly scattered matter, everything is very precise. With this, and how things have lined up in my life, i can only assume life isnt an accident void of significance. I think coincidence is a term humans made up for what they can't understand. It's something that can only be described with a perception where time exists as a consistent flow like ours. I'm not religious but spiritual. Above all i think its key to keep an open mind to keep discovering and growing

How is one going to guess what happened to an estimated 13 billion years, my, my, only a super fictional power would only know? Want to see a god, look at Jupiter, want to see the Devil, look at Venus.

You got theories saying from out of no where, everything, to where its always been. For all we know, there only one universe, while other guess or believe there 1, maybe two, maybe infinite realities of different circumstances.

How it makes one feel, well, mundane and insignificant to say the least, but it does keep one wondering about it majesty.

How can we say a flower was created?

From the dirt?


A seed but what created that


On and on and on you could go and never find the source of creation other than a mystical state of consciousness matrix that itself is from a source.

A clue

The source is numbered 5

WillTell

a reply to: DaysLate

Awesome. Post faster then.