After ten weeks the EMdrive is still running at NASA

a reply to: chr0naut

You're missing my whole point in a determined effort to be right.

The two are linked and somehow interact as per the article I posted.

This drive is utilising said interaction which is why they have no idea on how it works. The article says this us a new discovery which means it's not fully understood yet.

You say a magnetic force pulls a compass needle north. Two magnets can also repel or attract one another. Said attraction or repulsion can overpower the force of gravity and cause a magnetic to lift off a table to attach to another. It's the basic principle of magnetic levitation.

The em drive sounds like it is doing the same thing to the earths geomagnetic field - phasing opposite to it and repelling with a force great enough to overpower gravity.

So it's a magnetic drive that can overpower gravity. Does that description make you happier?

Now that they are talking about it publicly, they can justify using it to join the colony already on Mars. They would have had this technology 50 years ago in the military/. After all, most of the stuff developed there works its way into production in about that time. I give you the radar range (microwave that is)

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: 0bserver1

The drive is producing about 100uN force at 80W. Lorentz force should only account for < 2uN.

So, even if it is experimental error, it is still doing the unexpected.

One idea that seems to 'fit' (theoretically, in that the mathematically generated values seem to predict the same magnitude of force) is that the results are due to the quantization of inertial force.

Always enjoy your posts, in fact one of/the best poster at ATS So what are you saying here? Is this some kind of modulation between EM and gravity and that gravity is also an electric force complementing this EM drive, and that this drive appreciates that nothing is ever at rest?

Appears to me that they will eventually get to the point where they will need to put one on a probe and send it up to orbit. Maybe even a little one that could go up on the next trip to the ISS and then they can toss it over the side and see if it works.

And if it works then it may be time to build a interplanetary space ship and start putting men on the Moon and then on to Mars.

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
If we used this for interstellar travel and it is due to Planets Em fields interacting with the drive wouldn't we just push/pull to each nearest large body with a strong EM force after the next until arriving at our final destination?

That's exactly how it would work - the em drive would need to have reversible and polarity and variable field strength to allow it to hypothetically;

A) Repel the earth's magnetic field enough to thrust up out of the amtmosphere and far enough away to break free from it's gravitational field

then

B) Reverse polarity and fix in on another electromagnetic field, pulling itself toward it.

In theory, if let at a constant setting the drive would propel itself faster and faster the closer it gets to the source of said magnetic field because the field would get stronger and stronger the closer you get, which is why it needs to be variable in intensity.

It could then turn to reverse polarity again to stabilise an orbit, or enter another planet's atmosphere.

It also makes you wonder about the pyramids; They have measurable electromagnetic fields around them. Maybe they were artificial mountains designed to keep em craft hovering instead of landing

www.harunyahya.com...

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: 0bserver1

The drive is producing about 100uN force at 80W. Lorentz force should only account for < 2uN.

So, even if it is experimental error, it is still doing the unexpected.

One idea that seems to 'fit' (theoretically, in that the mathematically generated values seem to predict the same magnitude of force) is that the results are due to the quantization of inertial force.

Always enjoy your posts, in fact one of/the best poster at ATS

So what are you saying here? Is this some kind of modulation between EM and gravity and that gravity is also an electric force complementing this EM drive, and that this drive appreciates that nothing is ever at rest?

Thank you for the compliment.

The truth of the matter is that I really don't have a clue what is going on.

That being said, we can eliminate some things (actually, quite a few things). It is the number of things that have been tested for, and eliminated, that has us stumped. It really looks like we need some 'new' ideas - totally new.

The inertia idea is that normally (as far as we know) momentum is conserved. All the positive forces are balanced by all the negative forces. But if inertial forces are quantised, i.e; they come in discrete 'steps' of magnitude, This means that at the boundary between two magnitudes of inertial force, you could (potentially) have an imbalance.

If such is the case, it puts limits on the magnitude of the force that any one thrust generating 'engine' may generate and engineering with it would become a trade off of engine & power supply mass vs thrust.

Anyway, we could be totally wrong in pursuing this particular theory.

a reply to: markosity1973
Maybe this engine can access the gravity A wave, to produce thrust?

originally posted by: 0bserver1
That I don't know , but one would ask how would Roger Shawyer and Guido Fetta gain such knowledge?

I've seen something very similar years ago. We had the same arguments about it then, but it was before the topic of dark matter and I don't recall anyone fronting the argument that it functioned by expelling virtual particles. And I would have sworn the scientists that time were Asian.

originally posted by: 0bserver1
a reply to: markosity1973
Maybe this engine can access the gravity A wave, to produce thrust?

That is the part I profess utter ignorance to. The actual mechanism that is causing this thing to produce thrust is the part that has everyone scratching their heads at the moment.

But if we go back to the old bar magnet analogy, we know that if you have a really big magnet and a really small one, the big magnet will stay put and only the little one will move if we repel or attract them - simple mass difference. But there is also a difference in field strength - the big magnet has a stronger field which can send the little magnet flying in repulsion phase.

The earth is obviously exponentially larger than a spacecraft, so therefore has virtually unlimited potential energy in the geomagnetic field to lift a spacecraft through magnetic repulsion. The tricky part is creating a drive that can tap into that potential energy, and this EM drive is a very early breakthrough by the looks of things.

The vid below shows some of the cool thing magnets can do and explains the attraction / repulsion and thrust I have been talking about

a reply to: 0bserver1

so far the science appears to be another variation of a Magnetorquer to be used against a bodies magnetic field. so without a magnetic field Outside of an orbit this will be useless as a drive. its best use is for micro-adjustments of orbit without having to use a propellant for reaction thrust.

Not directly related to the EM drive as far as I know, but this video from Russia is fascinating.

I believe the Nazis were working on something similar, but using mercury and getting it super hot while spinning in in a magnetic field to produce thrust. They got the idea from the Hindu Vedic texts apparently. I'm not sure what causes the molten metal in the vid to suddenly drop, whether it was the magnet being turned off, or another mechanism.

originally posted by: markosity1973
Not directly related to the EM drive as far as I know, but this video from Russia is fascinating.

I believe the Nazis were working on something similar, but using mercury and getting it super hot while spinning in in a magnetic field to produce thrust. They got the idea from the Hindu Vedic texts apparently. I'm not sure what causes the molten metal in the vid to suddenly drop, whether it was the magnet being turned off, or another mechanism.

It's an induction heater in levitation mode. It doesn't have doodly to do with vimanas, or Vedic texts, or Nazis.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: chr0naut

My wording might not be to your liking, but geomagnatism and gravity are intimately linked

Short-term changes in the Earth’s magnetic field that occur over periods of just years or decades have now been shown in new research to have a very close relationship with changes in gravity.

Gravitation and thermal currents in the molten iron core of the Earth generate the magnetic field. That doesn't make gravity=magnetism.

Gravitation is caused by the 3D curvature of space-time.

Magnetism is a field force that is 90 degrees phase conjugate to electric charge.

They are very different forces.

I remember George Van Tassel saying that exact thing, and he also said there is a time factor associated with electric charge and the magnetic one perpendicular to it. Frequency equals 1 divided by "Time" And the earth's magnetic field is a giant working tape recorder with everything in earth's history already recorded as interruptions in the magnetic field of the earth.
He said everything ever transmitted by radio or tv as RF signal can be captured and played back any time with the right equipment
Quite interesting stuff

Hearing the guy mentioned in the OP say "but I can't due to the restrictive NASA press release rules now applied to the EW Lab." is also something I find interesting and damning, but not unexpected considering everything else they hide under threat of reprisals, lost careers, etc.

a reply to: Bedlam
So you're telling me they stole this invention?

Old tech. I wonder how long Darpa has been messing with drives like these? 40 years?

NASA is just a PR front to keep the people who love space happy.

Perhaps this is timed in order to bring out a functioning EM drive for a public go at mars

a reply to: 0bserver1

Youtube video with cheesy graphics , annoying dramatic music overlayed with expanding text or it didn't happen.



Pretty cool how science is on the door steps of sci-fi .

originally posted by: 0bserver1
a reply to: Bedlam
So you're telling me they stole this invention?

I'm telling you I've seen this thing in a prior incarnation. But still very, very similar physically. And I don't recall these two guys being associated with it then.

At the time, the mechanism of operation was supposed to be some sort of momentum transfer that somehow was asymmetric, and the argument was that it could NOT be, and around and around it went.

And IIRC, the guys I remember talking with about it would have put the thing in the late 90's.

a reply to: Bedlam

I remember having a discussion like that. Not necessarily expelling them. (They may not last that long.) But what exactly is it imparting momentum upon in order to produce a reaction force considering Newton's 3rd Law. To produce a thrust, something else has to go the other way. Doesn't matter how long that something exists exists, just as long as the shove is given while it's there.

The only other thing that could make sense is some variation of an exploit of Maxwell's demon. Pressure on one side of a common volume is somehow made greater than the pressure on the other side. Since the container in this case would be a frustrum which has unequal surface area on both sides, a Maxwell Demon exploit of differential pressure acting on those sides would give a net force in one direction. Problem with that is this thing supposedly has a vacuum inside (no vacuum is perfect, but I don't think there'd be enough stray gas for this effect), thus no fluid to impart the pressure differential by this mechanism.

I don't see this thing breaking entire physics, but some existing rulesets may need a do-over in order to explain how this thing works. Something more akin to a breakdown of component definitions of certain constants and a re-factor. (Again, my suspicion with consideration of relativity is that some constants are more like coefficients at a fixed ratio of other variables rather than true constants. Speed of light, dielectric properties of a vacuum, etc. If you can figure a way to tweak those ratios out of their natural resting states, there's some exploits to be had.)

originally posted by: pauljs75
Since the container in this case would be a frustrum which has unequal surface area on both sides, a Maxwell Demon exploit of differential pressure acting on those sides would give a net force in one direction.

That was one of the arguments. But you've got more force on the small side, less on the big. It should equal perfectly.

a reply to: interupt42

Everything once was just a dream SciFi is just a prequel for what's coming next in evolution. .