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New message from Iraq resistance!

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posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
now that i have seen and heard this video, i can say that i stand behind everything he said!


Hmm... let's hope the rest of the world is not so easily swayed by a well-made video.

This is something called "Propaganda". It's been around for a long time. It's designed to sway the weak of mind towards the views that someone else wants you to think. America has done the same exact thing. Instead of letting someone else tell you how to think, I recommend instead doing your best to find unbiased factual reports and decide for yourself.




posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
they are fighting for their home and their way of life


That's the point. The insurgents ARE NOT fighting for Iraq or the
Iraqi people. They are fighting for their 'way of life' - the way they
had it while Saddam was in power. The insurgents are fighting
against Iraq and the Iraqi people, and against freedom.

They aren't the great protectors of Iraq.
They are hurting Iraq and the Iraqi people.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
One detail -

Saddam can no longer mass murder his own people. The Kurds are not
being gassed by WMD by the thousands. Saddam and his sons are not
mass torturing and raping. Saddam no longer has the UN security council
in his back pocket. The Billions in Oil for Food $$$ that was supposed to be
going to the Iraqi people is now going to the Iraqi people instead of to
France, Germany, and China. The terrorist training camps in NE Iraq
(complete with Boeing 727s for hijack training) are gone. Saddam is no
longer paying $50,000 to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers and
so the number of homicide bombers in Israel has gone down because some
of the incentive to mass murder Jews (and others) is no longer there.

Why? Because we took him and his sons out.



Ok,

I think it's great you can recite all the fabulous stuff CNN/FoxNews feeds into your picture tube regarding the Iraq war. You forgot the part where Saddam, his sons and former regime have been classified non-threatening since 2003.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
If these upcoming elections weren't free, then
UBL and the rest of the terrorists wouldn't be
so dead set against them.
Another piece of western propaganda, another mindless motherhood statement, which sounds good. The problem is it only sounds good because it speaks to a future that is no longer 21 months away but 3 weeks, then what will be the excuse, they don’t like the elected government? That’s far too obvious and truthful for propaganda pushers to print. The insipidness of thought behind the insurgents trying to stop the election is directly tied to the suggestion that somehow an elected government will magically cause the insurgency to come to a screeching halt, as if that elected government will have any more power to stop same than did the occupation managers, and this transitional government.

How many excuses will there be coming from the white House and Downing Street? Twenty-two months ago, these acts were supposedly just a finally free and liberated Iraqis letting off the pent up frustration of having been repressed. Or was it the 100,000 prisoners Saddam freed? Or was it Saddam loyalists, Or was it Uday and Qusay’s followers? Or was it a few hundred or so Iranians? Or was it the few thousand Iranians and Syrians? Or was it Sadr’s army? Or was it Zarqawi’s brigades? Or was it Bin Laden’s supposedly devastated and miniscule followers? And now, I read in here that there are an estimated 200,000, a far cry from frustrated Iraqis isn’t it? What is the next excuse, I ask you?



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra
Hmm... let's hope the rest of the world is not so easily swayed by a well-made video.
This is something called "Propaganda". It's been around for a long time. It's designed to sway the weak of mind towards the views that someone else wants you to think. America has done the same exact thing. Instead of letting someone else tell you how to think, I recommend instead doing your best to find unbiased factual reports and decide for yourself.

yes i know what propaganda is. i have seen it alot of times in my life and i know exactly how it works. and my mind was never "swayed" in any way, it has always been like this. and dont think somebody tells me how to think, i am capable of doing that myself, thankyouverymuch. i was always on the side of the people who fight for their homeland.

but i belive there is somebody in your country, telling you all, what to "think" and "do". you are the puppets, not me! puppets of a more greater propaganda-war machine that you have ever seen or heard of. you are the result of it, a perfect beliver of all the "crappy terror scenarios" they can sell to you, keeping you afraid and paranoid. tell me, since the "end of iraq war" and the "defeat of taliban regime" do you feel any SAFER NOW? yes its all pretty safe and calm, dont you think?

on the otherside, i am nobodys puppet in this game of war! i am just a bystander, watching both sides fight each other, and the perfect judge of this situation, because i have both sides layed before me. and you should take that in notice, while reading what i have to write down.
and i can see who is right and who is wrong.
i really wish you could see this with my eyes. it would very enlightning for you, i can tell you that.


oh, i just have one more question for you:
do these "terror scenarios" go from hollywood to pentagon or the other way around?



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
That's the point. The insurgents ARE NOT fighting for Iraq or the
Iraqi people. They are fighting for their 'way of life' - the way they
had it while Saddam was in power. The insurgents are fighting
against Iraq and the Iraqi people, and against freedom.
They aren't the great protectors of Iraq.
They are hurting Iraq and the Iraqi people.

ok, i see you have taken a little "quote" out of my bigger text (that made sense if you read it whole) and bent it to your interest. i did not mean "way of life" as it was before, under saddam in power; i ment "way of life", that iraqi people want!, and not their "false leader", nor any other "false liberators", and let me tell you again, what the iraqi people want!.

who knows how many fractions really fight each other there. how many tribes are at war. its like a big gang fight, and you are the cops in their neighbourhood. you can shoot and kill and capture, but you cant do that with everybody. why is that so hard to understand? there are no prisions big enaugh for that! you will have to make concentration camps with such big numbers!

one question: "are there each year more or less gangs in los angeles?"

ok, look you armies are stuck in a fight for power in a land, far far away form kanzas. you stirred this fight, and divied it in half. there you have supporters of american invasion, and people who want to help them rob and steal this country. and there is no freedom, where everyday you see soldiers in the streets, "enforcing freedom and stability". soldiers are the cause of this instability, that they are "trying" to prevent. its such a magical circle, really a plan of grand mastermind of war. a nice little plot. more of a horror story if you ask me. and i am a worried about how this story ends. it doesnt look too good for us all! and i am talking about you and me, behind the screen, typing each day. you dont have a nuclear bunker and personal guard of a hundred soldiers! do you have an airplane to escape to africa or south america? what will you do when the sh** goes down? because, if your team america the world police, attacks even more people around the world, and make them even more angy and hate the u.s. even more, well that will never solve anything!

anger always leeds to more anger,
just like hate breeds more hate,
and love brings more love.
i have seen it all happening right here before my eyes, and i know which of these three i will choose, and its not the first two choices.

Positive
Energy
Activates
Constant
Elevation



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Saddam can no longer mass murder his own people. The Kurds are not
being gassed by WMD by the thousands.

That hadn't happened since Bush Sr. was in office. Get with the times already! BTW, we supported Iraq back then, no matter what they did. Those attacks were also part of a war-time battle with Iran. I get so sick and tired of the half truths surrounding this, in attempt to make Saddam look like the worst monster you possibly can. It's complete ignorance, by choice, apparently.



Saddam and his sons are not mass torturing and raping. Saddam no longer has the UN security council in his back pocket. The Billions in Oil for Food $$$ that was supposed to be going to the Iraqi people is now going to the Iraqi people instead of to France, Germany, and China.

I'm glad someone is buying all this BS propaganda, otherwise it would be a waste of time, eh?



Originally posted by thelibra
This is something called "Propaganda". It's been around for a long time. It's designed to sway the weak of mind towards the views that someone else wants you to think. America has done the same exact thing. Instead of letting someone else tell you how to think, I recommend instead doing your best to find unbiased factual reports and decide for yourself.

Yet you don't seem to realize that you buy into US propaganda daily? At least, you sound like one of "them."

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Damned]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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as posted by Souljah
...what the iraqi people want!.


And the Iraqis people want to vote and decide their own path and destiny, courtesy of their "false liberators," as a matter of fact!

Keep talking Souljah. The more you talk, the more you reveal your position and idealogy, which is definitely not what the Iraqi people want or are saying:


According to Moore's website, www.thetruthaboutiraq.org:

Polls show 75 percent of Iraqis want a democracy ... Iraqis want to vote, and they want to vote on everything: 78 percent of Iraqis want to vote for city council members; 71 percent want to vote for their national legislators; 66 percent want to vote for governor; other options like "appointed by religious clerics" or "appointed by the central government," barely break double digits

Misunderestimated ... again

Further:


What will you base your vote on?
Political agenda----------------------------65%
Factional origin----------------------------14%
Party Affiliation---------------------------- 4%
National Background----------------------12%
Other reasons--------------------------------5%

Do you support dialog with the deposed Baathists?

Yes-------------------------------------------15%
No--------------------------------------------84%
Do not know----------------------------------1%

Do you support the postponing the election?

Yes-------------------------------------------18%
No--------------------------------------------80%
Do not know---------------------------------2%

Do you think the elections will take place as scheduled?

Yes-------------------------------------------83%
No--------------------------------------------13%
Do not know---------------------------------4%

Iraqis want to vote

The list and quotes can go on, Souljah.
But hey, you support any and all efforts to take away or disrupt what the people of Iraq really want, eh? Just like those of the so-called Iraqi resistance, the terrorists, the insurgents? Of course, that is why they continue to go against the Geneva Conventions and the Laws of War (civilized warfare) in that, they continue to target and deliberately kill women, children, and the elderly as a legitimate tactics of disrupting such efforts...the very same efforts to get a vote going that nearly 80%+/- of Iraqis want? Then these same disrupters want protection under the Geneva Convention, the laws of armed combat, etc.?

Yeah, it is easy to see why you support their rhetoric, isn't it? Despite it going against what the Iraqi people really want, huh?





seekerof

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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Thank g_d for the few "open" minded people in the site and thread.

there is no dout in my mind that most of the WAR hungry people are Westeners with CNN views (and me'z no muslim or some left~y, I'm a born in Canada that luv'z America very much) so I feel my views are some what nutraul and from what I have seen and read over the years is......the US is stepping over the line....over and over again. But you know that one reason the good people of America dont' have a say is...because something like 50% of the population are on "medication" drug'd up to the teeth, not to mention all the other illigal drugs and alcohole.

So I hope that people start to take some edvice from some very wise people on this site....that read more than just CNN, BBC and MyNews.

Your Canadian Friend,
Sven



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Better "quality" than most of the other propaganda.

interesting effect applied to the speakers voice. Is that the cheesy microphone effect? Great soundtrack audio though..Kind of a strange.
I guess they were trying to hide the speakers identity.

France, Germany, they should be embarrassed. They were spoken of, as allies.

ALL in ALL, I think this was made from Stock footage..With Sound applied at another studio. I believe this is a 100% European/left wing-American product.


Sorry, it's junk...Please try again.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
yes i know what propaganda is. i have seen it alot of times in my life and i know exactly how it works. and my mind was never "swayed" in any way, it has always been like this.


Ah, good then. I was lead to understand from your previous post that it was the video that made you believe, and not your own research.


Originally posted by Souljah
but i belive there is somebody in your country, telling you all, what to "think" and "do".


Oh, of this I have no doubt. Not just in the war, but what to buy, how to look, what's cool, what's not, etc... Of this, I do not deny a thing. That's just how business works in the real world though. If people weren't so self-conscious, they'd just do their own thing, it'd stop. However, it works. It works really well.


Originally posted by Souljah
you are the result of it, a perfect beliver of all the "crappy terror scenarios" they can sell to you, keeping you afraid and paranoid. tell me, since the "end of iraq war" and the "defeat of taliban regime" do you feel any SAFER NOW? yes its all pretty safe and calm, dont you think?


Actually, I am less a puppet than yourself, as I keep an open mind to the fact that we may be right, and we may be wrong. No agenda owns me, and no propaganda decides for me. Those who are fanatically convinced that the U.S. is Evil, Corrupt, and so forth are no less of a puppet than those convinced that the U.S. is Flawless, Perfect, and Wonderful.


Originally posted by Souljah
on the otherside, i am nobodys puppet in this game of war! i am just a bystander, watching both sides fight each other, and the perfect judge of this situation, because i have both sides layed before me. and you should take that in notice, while reading what i have to write down.
and i can see who is right and who is wrong.


I am sorry, but that is incorrect. You have an opinion, which is composed of that which you have observed. Only history will tell who was right and who was wrong in the end. Perhaps not even then. Maybe only God knows, and maybe there's isn't even a right and wrong.


Originally posted by Souljah
i really wish you could see this with my eyes. it would very enlightning for you, i can tell you that.


I'm kinda glad that I don't. I know my country isn't perfect. But it's my country, and while I may not agree with what our (ahem) president does, those are my fellow countrymen fighting and dying out there. They may be right, they may be wrong, but they are my team, and I'm rooting for them...

...but know that I wouldn't shed a tear if tomorrow Bush and Cheney were to be abducted by those Nordic Vampire Aliens from Atlantis...


Originally posted by Souljah
oh, i just have one more question for you:
do these "terror scenarios" go from hollywood to pentagon or the other way around?


Hard to say, really. I think it's a 2-way street. Bruckheimer seems to follow the Pentagon, but the Pentagon seems to follow Oliver Stone... so it's anyone's game. I'm too disgusted with Hollywood to go on a rant about them right now... gimme Golden Harvest any day of the week.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
And the Iraqis people want to vote and decide their own path and destiny, courtesy of their "false liberators," as a matter of fact!

the iraqi people want one thing: peace.
after all this time of sufferation and war they just want peace, and if thats how they will get it, they will vote for it. i know people want to choose what they want, and cant wait for this elections. and what will happen next? the newly elected "governor" will protect and lead this so called "country" and the u.s. forces will go away forever? yeah right.
people want freedom. freedom to move and not to see soldiers on the streets "guarding them". if i see a soldier on a steet i do not feel any safer, do you understand what i mean? because that tells you the situation is dangerous, since there are soldiers on the streets. and i really have no idea how you are going to solve this "middle east situation". i really hope for the best elections and that everything will go smoothly and without any complications and that everybody gets what they want. but i have no idea what is REALLY going on in the back of iraqi politics. and you dont know either. we are just basing our stories upon news and reports from there. we are not there, we dont actually see this situation, nor are we in it. so, my dear friend, what is really going on nobody knows, but people who are really there.



Just like those of the so-called Iraqi resistance, the terrorists, the insurgents? Of course, that is why they continue to go against the Geneva Conventions and the Laws of War (civilized warfare) in that, they continue to target and deliberately kill women, children, and the elderly as a legitimate tactics of disrupting such efforts...the very same efforts to get a vote going that nearly 80%+/- of Iraqis want? Then these same disrupters want protection under the Geneva Convention, the laws of armed combat, etc.?

the geneva convention?
the laws of war?
HA! you got to be kidding me. what laws of war? what conventions? oh you mean the ones that are broken all the times? oh, that "laws" and "conventions". i belive that nobody cares anymore about any conventions, since nobody listens to u.n. anymore, and what they have to say. there are no more rules in this war. no laws of warfare. no conventions. hate breeds hate, and no rule or convention is goint to stop that.

not to mention how many international conventions and worldwide agreements your mr.president broke, the minute he became in charge. lets talk about that for a minute, since he is the " great leader" of this "great conquest of peace".

heres your mate, your friend, your fellow american, michael moore, and i quote:



* Cut $39 million from federal spending on libraries
* Cut $35 million in funding for advanced pediatric training for doctors
* Cut funding for research into renewable energy sources by 50 percent

* Delayed rules that would reduce "acceptable" levels of arsenic in drinking water
* Cut funding for research into cleaner, more efficient cars and trucks by 28 percent
* Revoked rules strengthening the power of the government to deny contracts to companies that violate federal laws, environmental laws, and workplace safety standards
* Allowed Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton to request suggestions for opening up national monuments for foresting, coal mining, and oil and gas drilling
* Broken your campaign promise to invest $100 million per year in rain forest conservation
* Reduced by 86 percent the Community Access Program, which coordinated care for people without health insurance among public hospitals, clinics, and other health care providers
* Nullified a proposal to increase public access to information about the potential ramifications of chemical plant accidents
* Cut funding for the Girls and Boys Clubs of America programs in public housing by $60 million
* Pulled out of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol agreement on global warming, ultimately signed by 178 other countries
* Rejected an international accord to enforce the 1972 treaty banning germ warfare
* Cut $200 million from workforce training programs for dislocated workers
* Cut $200 million from the Childcare and Development grant, a program that
provides child care to low-income families as they are forced from welfare to work

* Eliminated prescription contraceptive coverage to federal employees (though Viagra is still covered)
*Cut $700 million in funds for public housing repairs
* Cut half a billion dollars from the Environmental Protection Agency's budget

* Overturned workplace ergonomic rules designed to protect workers' health and safety
* Abandoned your campaign pledge to regulate carbon dioxide emissions, a major contributor to global warming
* Prohibited any federal aid from going to international family planning organizations that provide abortion counseling, referrals, or services with their own funds
* Nominated former mining company executive Dan Lauriski as Assistant Secretary of Labor for Mine Safety and Health
* Appointed Lynn Scarlett, a global warming skeptic and an opponent of stricter standards on air pollution, as Undersecretary of the Interior
* Approved Interior Secretary Gale Norton's controversial plan to auction off
areas close to Florida's eastern shore for oil and gas development
* Announced your plans to allow oil drilling in Montana's Lewis and Clark National Forest
* Threatened to shut down the White House AIDS office

* Decided no longer to seek guidance from the American Bar Association on federal judicial appointments
* Denied college financial aid to students convicted of misdemeanor drug charges (though convicted murderers are still eligible for financial ai
* Allocated only 3 percent of the amount requested by Justice Department lawyers in the government's continued litigation against tobacco companies
* Pushed through your tax cut, 43 percent of which goes to the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans
* Signed a bill making it harder for poor and middle-class Americans to file for bankruptcy, even when facing overwhelming medical bills
* Appointed affirmative action opponent Kay Cole James to direct the Office of
Personnel Management
* Cut $15.7 million from programs dealing with child abuse and neglect
* Proposed elimination of the "Reading Is Fundamental" program, which gives free books to poor children
* Pushed for development of "mini-nukes," designed to attack deeply buried targets--a violation of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty
* Tried to reverse regulation protecting sixty million acres of national forest from logging and road building
* Appointed John Bolton, an opponent of nonproliferation treaties and the United Nations, as Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Securit
* Made Monsanto executive Linda Fisher deputy administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency
* Nominated Michael McConnell, a leading critic of the separation of church and state, to a federal judgeship
* Nominated civil rights opponent Terrence, Boyle to a federal judgeship
* Canceled the 2004 deadline for auto makers to develop prototype high-mileage cars
* Named John Walters, an ardent opponent of prison drug treatment programs, as drug czar
* Appointed oil and coal lobbyist J. Steven Giles as Deputy Secretary of the Interior
* Named Bennett Raley, who has called for the repeal of the Endangered Species Act, as Assistant Secretary of the Interior for Water and Science
* Sought the dismissal of a class-action lawsuit filed in the United States against Japan by Asian women forced to work as sex slaves in World War II
* Appointed as solicitor general Ted Olson, your chief lawyer in the Florida
voting debacle
* Proposed to ease the permit process for constructing refineries and nuclear and hydroelectric dams, including lowering environmental standards
* Proposed the selling of oil and gas tracts in the Alaska Wildlife Preserve

by michael moore - stupid white men


and also here are some numbers and facts for you to "check out", but that happened four years ago, first "changes" that your big boss made were these written right here. nice clean-up mission, dont you think? he made more damage to his people and the enviroment in ten minutes, than saddam did in ten years of ruling!
i just cant even image what horror will BS-goverment write now for this years plans and "changes & resolutions for a better tomorrow".
i hope you are ready and packing to go on an airplane for middle east, since soon they are going to need every combat capable man from 18 to 55.
i hope you know the meaning of the word "conscription"?



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by Souljah
but i belive there is somebody in your country, telling you all, what to "think" and "do".


Oh, of this I have no doubt. Not just in the war, but what to buy, how to look, what's cool, what's not, etc... Of this, I do not deny a thing. That's just how business works in the real world though. If people weren't so self-conscious, they'd just do their own thing, it'd stop. However, it works. It works really well.

yeah, a "general" brainwashing situation.
after i have seen the movie manchurian candidate i am even more scared of the american people in power.
that is some scary sh**!


Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by Souljah
you are the result of it, a perfect beliver of all the "crappy terror scenarios" they can sell to you, keeping you afraid and paranoid. tell me, since the "end of iraq war" and the "defeat of taliban regime" do you feel any SAFER NOW? yes its all pretty safe and calm, dont you think?


Actually, I am less a puppet than yourself, as I keep an open mind to the fact that we may be right, and we may be wrong. No agenda owns me, and no propaganda decides for me. Those who are fanatically convinced that the U.S. is Evil, Corrupt, and so forth are no less of a puppet than those convinced that the U.S. is Flawless, Perfect, and Wonderful.

well i am glad to see some sanity in highest positions of this forum. i like to see open minded people, that keep their options open. that is a good sign. but i still do belive that "your u.s. goverment" IS corrupt and not worth a penny! but i know, you as the american people, are not evil and corrupt people! most of you really dont know what is going on! i am not talking to "you", but you as a nation.
only god knows what corrupt sitation is this we are all in!



Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by Souljah
on the otherside, i am nobodys puppet in this game of war! i am just a bystander, watching both sides fight each other, and the perfect judge of this situation, because i have both sides layed before me. and you should take that in notice, while reading what i have to write down.
and i can see who is right and who is wrong.


I am sorry, but that is incorrect. You have an opinion, which is composed of that which you have observed. Only history will tell who was right and who was wrong in the end. Perhaps not even then. Maybe only God knows, and maybe there's isn't even a right and wrong.

ok, i stand corrected.
i do not know what is right or wrong, because i have no idea. it is my humble opinion, that i can share with you, since you are willing to listen and read my words. but i know what feels right for me, and what feels wrong. and based on all the facts i have here infront of me, i am able to make my own judgement over this situation:

and its wrong to start a war, and
its right to fight for your own home!


Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by Souljah
i really wish you could see this with my eyes. it would very enlightning for you, i can tell you that.


I'm kinda glad that I don't. I know my country isn't perfect. But it's my country, and while I may not agree with what our (ahem) president does, those are my fellow countrymen fighting and dying out there. They may be right, they may be wrong, but they are my team, and I'm rooting for them...

i almost understand you here.
but are you down with your team, if you see they are doing the wrong thing?
and if you dont agree with your president, how can you let your friends and buddies go to war and fight for somebody, that nobody belives in? its like sending your buddy to die!
that puzzles me.


Originally posted by thelibra
...but know that I wouldn't shed a tear if tomorrow Bush and Cheney were to be abducted by those Nordic Vampire Aliens from Atlantis...

now that sounds like fun!
can i watch?


Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by Souljah
oh, i just have one more question for you:
do these "terror scenarios" go from hollywood to pentagon or the other way around?

Hard to say, really. I think it's a 2-way street. Bruckheimer seems to follow the Pentagon, but the Pentagon seems to follow Oliver Stone... so it's anyone's game. I'm too disgusted with Hollywood to go on a rant about them right now... gimme Golden Harvest any day of the week.


i am also glad to see some sense for humor rest!

i think they exchange their best work all the time...



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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The notion of Tito being the heroic resistance fighter is a huge exaggeration and myth meant for his own political purposes.

It was the Red Army that defeated the Wehrmacht and its allies in Yugoslavia. Period.

The other stuff was a little bit above noise.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by mbkennel
The notion of Tito being the heroic resistance fighter is a huge exaggeration and myth meant for his own political purposes.

It was the Red Army that defeated the Wehrmacht and its allies in Yugoslavia. Period.

The other stuff was a little bit above noise.

tito was the leader of the partisan resistance.
he fought extremly well in given circumstances and considering what armies he had to fight. and not only the foreign armies, but also traitors from the inside.
ofcouse the red army defeated the germans in the eastern europe, and without them we would all speak german now. but if they never came to help tito and his partisans, they would fight and fight and sooner or later, they would win.
but i wonder, how well do you know the history of tito and yugoslavija and their struggle during ww2? you are all such experts here, knowing everything, you did some reasearch, or did you trust what your buddies told you about him?



By 1943, Tito headed a large army and controlled a sizable part of Yugoslavia, centered in Bosnia. Tito was supported from the first by the USSR, but in 1944 he also received the full support of Britain and the United States. In Nov., 1944, after the liberation of Belgrade, he negotiated a merger of the royal Yugoslav government and his own council of national liberation, and in Mar., 1945, he became head of the new federal Yugoslav government.

source: www.infoplease.com


and i am going to end this post with a quote by tito,
that i know you will like:



"Death to Fascism, Freedom to the People!"



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 02:40 AM
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...only ended with the occupation of our country and the theft of our resources. ..

hmm, i wasn't aware that the general public had access to the oil itself or the money generated from its sale BEFORE the US occupation.

this is propaganda, treat it as such.

and no im not saying that makes the us right or our propaganda right, im just calling it like i smell it.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 02:52 AM
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For aditional discussion on this videotape, visit this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

which was posted some time ago.




posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 03:15 AM
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Souljah...you have good points there. Finally somebody who hasn´t been brainwashed to believe that shait "operation iraqi freedom" lol
..still makes me laugh after all this time..
Iraqi "insurgents" aka. pissed off civilians with rpg-7 are growing day by day because us has come to stay and lied to them. When the "war operation in iraq" ended over a year ago they were told that troops will go back home soon. Now us troops has been pouring in at constant rate and they have figured it out.
Its not freedom, it´s only a oily bridgehead in the middle east. First afganistan, then iraq..hmm iran would be next but US is out of dollars and iran has been informed to strenghten it´s defences. Iran lays between afganistan and iraq btw. Iraqis got what they wanted..saddam out of the country. Now it would be nice to fix the things usa bombed up and leave the country. If they would believe that would happen all the resistance would halt. But now all the rebuilding funds are going to oil refinerys and mega corporations.
-ap



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by aape
Souljah...you have good points there. Finally somebody who hasn´t been brainwashed to believe that shait "operation iraqi freedom" lol
..still makes me laugh after all this time..
Iraqi "insurgents" aka. pissed off civilians with rpg-7 are growing day by day because us has come to stay and lied to them. When the "war operation in iraq" ended over a year ago they were told that troops will go back home soon. Now us troops has been pouring in at constant rate and they have figured it out.
Its not freedom, it´s only a oily bridgehead in the middle east. First afganistan, then iraq..hmm iran would be next but US is out of dollars and iran has been informed to strenghten it´s defences. Iran lays between afganistan and iraq btw. Iraqis got what they wanted..saddam out of the country. Now it would be nice to fix the things usa bombed up and leave the country. If they would believe that would happen all the resistance would halt. But now all the rebuilding funds are going to oil refinerys and mega corporations.
-ap

well i am happy to see a friendly face here, thinking with his own head and not beliving everything he sees or hears. sometimes it takes a little bit more to open up you eyes and see thru all the lies.

but then again you know that, i know that, but the people that should know that, are just covering their ears.

and that is really sad!




[edit on 5-1-2005 by Souljah]



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 06:42 AM
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It seems the americans dont know their history very well. If they did they would know they can NEVER win this war, as no conquerer ever won it in a long run.
I do praise USA for getting rid of Saddam, but i am sorry to say, he was just a distraction for the media, something to glorify the greed of US government, and i think this is pretty obvious to any outside observer by now.
This US policy of "do as i say dont do as i do" has eventually produced much bigger enemies than few Iraqis that have lost everything. I think its safe to say the balance of power has already shifted away from US army, and it aing gonna get prettier.

The funny thing is this was easy predictable. The old way of guerilla warfare. You let the enemy get in, let them get comfortable and before you know it, they are the ones being preyed on. The rebels are after all playing in their own backyard, something the americans dont understand, they never played in their back yard, just everybody elses.
It is true that this is how Yugoslavia fought nazis in ww2. Yes the country capitullated in like one day, but almost instanteniously, pockets of resistance of ordinary people formed, got organized and started distracting the germans in any way possible. And yes the germans tried everything, from killing 10 civiliand for one german, to closing entire cities with barb wire, but guess what...it didnt work, nothng did. And yes it was the red army that chased them out of YU eventually, but red army was full of different nationalities.

Oh what the hell, let there be another vietnam, seems americans need one in every couple od decades anyway, since they let their government do their thinking for them. Fightning a never ending war is, after all, a never ending business!
Too bad generations of innoccent lifes will be wasted on both sides.

People seriously, how can you still find any excuses for whats going on?



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