Police Cuts UK

a reply to: Kester

Me and my partner were coming home late a few evenings ago. Got the last train into Glasgow about 11:55pm, came out the station on to Union Street only to find about 50 Police officers in all the different shop front doorways hassling all the poor homeless people out there sleeping bags, taking there details and apparently fining them on the spot. Talk about a pointless act. Dont they know that homeless people dont have cash monies???

We get to the bus stop and some wee homeless junkie lassie attempts to take a half empty McDonalds carton out of a bin. Four Police scum pounce upon her, pin her to the ground, cuff her and proceed to inform the poor soul that she is going to be charged and fined with littering. When she protested that she was starving and only trying to feed herself the bastards added, dead pan faced mind you, that she should be thankfully dont also charge her with theft by finding.

Honestly could not believe my own eyes or ears. So sad.

a reply to: andy06shake

Sounds like 'Police Scotland' are a bunch of right bastards then, glad I don't live there.
My local plod have compassionate relationships with our rough sleepers, they care only about public order and the welfare of the homeless person.
Decades ago I was a 16 year old street sleeping runaway here and the police were always kind. They haven't changed since then, but I guess we're just Southern softy's in the Devon & Cornwall police area.

a reply to: grainofsand

Glad to here at least some of our so-called officers of the law retain a modicum of compassion regarding the welfare of homeless people. I hope it stays that way down your neck of the woods because its all overtly Orwellian, food banks, refugees and austerity austerity austerity here in Sunny Glasgow.

As to Police Scotland being Bastards, i imagine these days that would be a prerequisite for the job.

a reply to: andy06shake

I think it is because we have one of the most underfunded police forces in the UK that makes a difference. They are vastly outnumbered here and struggle to deal with 'real' crime let alone bull# like picking on homeless folk.

Our police recently announced that they will ignore most fuel 'drive-offs' from petrol stations unless there is clear evidence of intentional fraud, basically they are saying go through the county court, not them.
Source
I have to remind myself that pot is still illegal because responsible adult personal possession is effectively ignored by all our cops, again due to them being so under-resourced.

Here's a link from Devon & Cornwall's Police Commissioner U nfairness in police funding It is shocking:

In the most recently published figures the Government provides Devon and Cornwall with £104 per head of population. The figure provided for London (Metropolitan Police) is £226.

All major metropolitan forces receive significantly more than Devon and Cornwall. Merseyside Police receives £84 more per head than Devon and Cornwall whilst Greater Manchester receive £60 more.

So, the biggest geographical police area in England gets some of the least funding and based on our Winter population of 1.5 million people. Completely ignoring the 11 million tourists who need to be policed for six months of every year.

If it is the lack of funding that creates a situation where our cops ignore bull# 'crimes' then maybe it is no bad thing. I'm assuming 'Police Scotland' is well resourced, if only taking the Barnett formula into account, a # load more of public money is spent on Scots than us down in SW England, so I assume if they have the resources to pick on homeless folk then they are not struggling to deal with 'real' crime.

I'm almost drawn to thinking I quite like an underfunded police service because it forces them to be nice to us, the community which outnumbers them.

a reply to: grainofsand

"I'm assuming 'Police Scotland' is well resourced, if only taking the Barnett formula into account, a # load more of public money is spent on Scots than us down in SW England"

I think there overtly totalitarian policing fashion was more down to the fact that its a city center. Police do the same thing to the poor souls in London.

As to " the Barnett formula" and/or a lot more public money being spent north of the border, well lets just say that if that is indeed the case they are spending it on the wrong things. Because this county is falling apart at the seems, i live across from a food bank, the sites one sees is enough to bring tears to the eyes of even the most hardhearted austerity supporting person imaginable.

a reply to: andy06shake

Funding of the police makes a massive difference though. You saw my quoted figures yeah, it is a huge disparity between forces, Devon & Cornwall are vastly underfunded and this is not new, I wrote a thread about it in July 2014:
Is it police numbers or a nice environment that keeps the peace, or is it just a crazy mix? ...and since then it has got worse, we are looking at losing another 500 officers in the next few months dropping numbers to less than 2500.

Two and a half thousand cops covering the largest geographical police area in England which gets millions of tourists, on three 8 hour shifts, plus holidays and sickness/administrative time, do the maths, they are vastly outnumbered and they know it.
I said earlier in the thread that I was chatting to a cop the other week and I said "You guys are #ed if you lose the cuts fight" and he replied "Tell me about it".

But the upside is that our cops are friendly because they depend on us more than we depend on them these days.
It has to be about funding as far as I see it. If Glasgow police have the resources to allocate 50 cops on a 'pick on the homeless' drive then you have way too many cops than you need.

I don't think I've ever seen 50 cops in one place even in Plymouth city center on a weekend night, well maybe if you count military police but you get what I'm saying.
So, if it is due to the shocking underfunding of my police area compared to pretty much everywhere else in the UK, then I'm thinking I quite like it, because one thing is for sure, cops are not scary here in the slightest. They wouldn't get away with it and they know it.

a reply to: grainofsand

"If Glasgow police have the resources to allocate 50 cops on a 'pick on the homeless' drive then you have way too many cops than you need."

Keeping in mind of course that was in the city center, the only other place here you are lightly to find Police out in those numbers is at a football game or Doughnut emporium.

Should probably also add that when you move out to the surrounding housing schemes and other areas you would be lucky to see Police in more than twos or the occasional squad car/meat wagon doing the rounds. Fact is where i hail from unless you witness a serious crime being committed you are encouraged to phone 101 as opposed to 999 concerning reporting anything to the Police. And chances are if you do call 101 they will not even bother to investigate or turn up, or if they do it will be 3-4 hours down the line.

a reply to: andy06shake

So are you defending the police you originally criticised now?
I say it again, if Glasgow police have the resources to waste 50 coppers on a 'picking on the homeless' drive then you have way too many police than you need.
50 of them on a homeless drive?! WTF?

Okay, Glasgow is double the population of Plymouth, but come on, 50 cops available to deal with low level bull# like homelessness??? You have way more cops than you need in Glasgow, or their resources are being used in a way that a child would say is wasteful and ridiculous.
Lol, you gonna blame Westminster for that one or accept that some Scottish management needs questioning?
50 cops on an anti homeless drive at once in the same place?! FFS there wasn't 50 cops in the same place at Exeter during the recent Rugby World Cup games, you must have plenty of cops in Scotland to waste your taxes.

a reply to: grainofsand

"So are you defending the police you originally criticised now?"

Nope, not in the slightest im afraid.

Why would you think that? Where im i defending them?

Simply telling it how it is. The problem i imagine is not with the numbers, but in how said Police force is utilized, also the quality and proficiency of the officers doing the job. And if that job is criminalizing our homeless for simply existing, then they are in the wrong line of work.

My mrs worked directly for the police for 13 years .. A job she herself defined to the point that her training programs are now nationaly used.. Her role was recently taken over by an outside source.. Still working in CJ but in a wider capacity.. The downer is the attitude change to her from her former police coworkers.. Even though doing the same job the same way in the same place is now seen as no longer one of the boys but largely taken the piss out of.. The same police force further crapped on custody staff.. Sacking many of them and making them reapply for their own jobs on a lower pay rate.. Disgusting behaviour.. If frontline police staff want support then stop crapping on those who support you

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: crazyewok
I feel sorry for the police, they really are being put under strain.


There are far better ways to cut the police budget then cut numbers.
Ending the drug war for a start would free up huge numbers of manpower and money.

Kind of hard to feel sorry for them well the 'war on drugs' is in play though.

When they just spend most of there time trying to move up the ranks by busting minor drug offenders, well destroying peoples lives by twisting the situation around for the purpose of pining trafficking charges on them.

I am one of the victims of this war on drugs i was caught with some m/j just for 1 smoke in Scotland , they could find time to visit me 20 or so times over it even on New years day - did i answer

Ended up spending 48 hrs in the cells when you add up the court costs and police time for less than a bucks worth $4000 + and that is a conservative estimate yet in another part of the country they do not even respond to home invasion or rape cases

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: grainofsand
Why would you think that?

I just sought clarity because this line sounded like an excuse for Police Scotland to me:

Keeping in mind of course that was in the city center

*Edit* Glasgow is twice the size of Plymouth and I doubt there has ever been a 25 officer 'pick on the homeless' drive there, ever. Sounds # in Glasgow dealing with Scottish police who are controlled by Scottish management.
Either that or you clearly have more cops than you need wasting resources like that lol.

Simply telling it how it is. The problem i imagine is not with the numbers, but in how said Police force is utilized, also the quality and proficiency of the officers doing the job. And if that job is criminalizing our homeless for simply existing, then they are in the wrong line of work.

It's ALL about numbers as I've explained with the soon to be 2500 officers covering 3 eight hour shifts in the biggest geographical police area in England which has less funding than nearly any other UK constabulary and 11 million tourists each year. They are nice to us because the community and the police know full well they are outnumbered and rely on us.

If police in Scotland have enough resources to deploy 50 officers in Glasgow on an 'anti homeless' drive then you have more cops than you need, and it is a Scottish management problem if said cops are oppressive. You clearly have enough coppers to the point they feel confident enough to waste time targeting non-crimes.
They wouldn't try it down here because they know they are struggling to deal with 'real' crime.
Sounds okay where you are if the resources are such that they can waste tax money on an anti-homeless drive.

I prefer living here though, it's nice knowing the underfunded and understaffed police don't have the resources to pick on homeless folk.
Perhaps you should write to the Scottish Parliament?

a reply to: grainofsand

Cant speak for Plymouth, but there were indeed around 50 Police in groups of twos and threes hassling the poor souls in all the doorways. To be honest we thought there had been some kind of incident at first. Whether its the numbers or the quality of the officers in question, there certainly is a problem. As to contacting the Scottish Parliament, why? Its not like Nicola Sturgeon is going to wave a magic wand and somehow alleviate the issue. As to it being ok where i am, well to be honest i would swap my geographical location for your own any day of the week. Must be nice to live somewhere your own Police force dont see the public as there advisory and actually try to help and accommodate them rather than oppressing them into the ground for questioning there overtly totalitarian style of policing.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: grainofsand

Must be nice to live somewhere your own Police force dont see the public as there advisory and actually try to help and accommodate them rather than oppressing them into the ground for questioning there overtly totalitarian style of policing.

It's like that here because there are so few of them, and they are happy when communities sort stuff out themselves. They are all usually friendly and just want an easy shift then go home to their loved ones, just like us.
...the more I think about it the more I see the benefits of an underfunded and understaffed police service such as Devon & Cornwall is.

a reply to: grainofsand

Its all well and good thinking that communities and people can sort stuff out themselves but chances are up here anyway that Murder can and does happen as a result. I get where you are coming from but social circumstance plays its part as well.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: grainofsand

Its all well and good thinking that communities and people can sort stuff out themselves but chances are up here anyway that Murder can and does happen as a result. I get where you are coming from but social circumstance plays its part as well.

Oh we have murders here as well, that's probably the only time I'd be calling the police for anything, and more to cover myself than anything else lol

a reply to: andy06shake

I can't find any videos or references to this. Years ago a young man lived the homeless life with a hidden camera and got some very revealing footage. This harassment must be exposed.

streetskitchen.co.uk...

a reply to: grainofsand

Scottish police treated me well when I was young and homeless.

a reply to: EvanB

Thank you for this insight.

My way of thinking immediately leads me to suspect there are disruptive agents at work deliberately stirring up trouble.

a reply to: Kester

Police used to treat all walks of life with a modicum of respect. These days however they seem to have an agenda regarding the criminalization of vulnerable members of our society. Or at least on entering them into the criminal system for pretty much existing.

Can i ask Kester, how long ago were you homeless? Just trying to get a bit of perspective as to how these times they are a changing.