Students get kicked out of class for not praying

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

only to the extent of just how it has influence past events.....
it's also something that really isn't that new I believe. I remember learning some of the same stuff when I was in school.....in the 60's and 70's...

It's pretty simple right: State and Religion are separated.

You can do whatever you want in private school, but public is a different story.

I don't care if 100% of the people there are religious - it doesn't belong there.

I just read through the complaint and is horrifying how they tried to influence the children. I agree that this is more common than we think and it takes a lot to go through the legal process. Most parents probably just move their children to another school/district.

a reply to: flyandi

I agree completely, separation of govt and religion.

Practice your religion as you see fit, but keep it out of the state house, completely out.

a reply to: Poppcocked
Do you "non-atheists" give your children a choice to disbelieve in god if they want or do yo make them believe what you believe?

and if they do choose to disbelieve in god, do you point your fingers and judge about them like you do with other non-religious folk?

I can give you the answer, at least for my case when I was a child.
The answers: No, no, yes!

a reply to: Leroy33860

Just watch tv when catholic world youth day is and be amazed. No really, I saw it last sunday on a local channel, those teens went NUTS when the pope went by. One group was weaving their bodies like slaves to him, on their knees. Some of them left comments like (translated) "It´s so exciting to meet him, after all he´s a very important person!" "why is he important to you, can you tell us" confused face "he´s the pope?!"

And I shook my head in disgust at such blasphemic pictures.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Leroy33860

Just watch tv when catholic world youth day is and be amazed. No really, I saw it last sunday on a local channel, those teens went NUTS when the pope went by. One group was weaving their bodies like slaves to him, on their knees. Some of them left comments like (translated) "It´s so exciting to meet him, after all he´s a very important person!" "why is he important to you, can you tell us" confused face "he´s the pope?!"

And I shook my head in disgust at such blasphemic pictures.

For the same reason some people think the president or an actor, or musician or whoever is important. What you believe and embrace in your life will deciede who you think is important. Not because any of these people are important but the image is presented and accepted by some based on personal beliefs.

originally posted by: VictorBloodworth
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed
I'll tell you one thing...
If I chose to believe in a god, it certainly wouldn't be Jehovah.
Love me or burn.
Believe in me with no proof, or burn.
Do what I command or burn.
Sounds a lot like Stalin, Hitler, pol pot, Mao, Mugabe, idi amin....and an endless list of other very human assholes.
You sure you're cheering for the right guy?

I know for a fact I'm cheering for the right one. God, Christ, are nothing like you are stating about them.

People who twist religion and their beliefs so they can commit acts of evil, then just say they did it for "God" are all liars. Look at radical Islam or the middle ages for proof of this phenomenon.
When folks just see so called religious people doing evil, they blame it on religion, but it is always the person committing evil who is only misrepresenting this so they can blame it on something else, rather than their own desire to do evil things.
That is all I see happening.
Now lets address this thread. Getting kicked out of a class because of refusing to pray is WRONG. No one should be forced to pray whether they are in a church or in a school. And government is not a place to push religion anyways.. You feel that way, and I feel the same. Probably for different reasons though.

a reply to: verschickter

I never said i believed in God, I just like dont like children picking on those that do.

a reply to: Reallyfolks
What I tell you now sounds so unrealistic, I suspect no one will believe this. It´s a little bit offtopic but I do not care. It´s not about religion and it will be very much to read.

That´s what I told the kids when they got all obsessed with biebers and mileys, to a point it was becoming unbearable. Miley here, bieber there, I need a bieber-that and a miley-this. I asked them what both of them did good for the world, the answer was entertaining, my answer to that was: Distracting you from the real problems of the world.
Then I was educated about all the good things they do and I was like (paraphrasing):

"if you would spend that money you blow for concerts and fan-stuff, CDs, for our yearly christmas evening hot soup stand (we do that every year, I know its only one day of 365 but better than not one day and never) we could dish out over 100 additional soups for free or buy something for other kids that do not have nerving idiotic parent like I seem to be. Or you could buy several dozen one-time injections that would save many people from going blind who otherwise would go blind. You know what? You would be a better person than miley and bieber all together, maybe not in the eyes of many people, but in the ones that count. Make it count! Always." Obviously I did not say "make it count" I said "..vielleicht nicht in den augen von den zwei kasper, aber in den augen denen ihr helft. Macht was draus!"

That´s when I left the room and the discussion started, ten minutes later access to the internet was wished, reason: research about that child blindness thing. Gladly approved it! One month later, on pocket money day, I was asked to hold back 5€ from both of them every month to spend it at the end of the year. I said no, you hold it back, next lesson to learn.
At the end of the year, I forgot it already, both came to me with around 130€. I was confused, then told, then confused again because it was like 6 months ago and 2x5x6 equals 60, not double of it. So they told me I was right (of course i was ^^), sold some additional CDs and stuff when they went to flea market with the neighbors. I should spend this money to the organization SOS child town (translated) so they can have something nice for christmas, too.

I took the 130€, split it to their secret bank account, took nearly double the amount and went shopping for child gloves and winter hats in various sizes at a local shop, they were dumbfounded I can tell you when I walked in and said "excuse me please I´d like to buy winter gloves and hats for children in different sizes, preferably a good mix of every size for 250€ can you help me with that please". They did not have anywhere near that amount. So she called her boss on the phone and he came to the store. We sat back in the office I told them what was going on, that my kids came up with the idea of SOS kinderdorf but I voiced concerns if help gets where help is needed. So we came up with the idea to buy some gloves and hats for the childhouse next town. We worked out a scheme, prices, what to buy. I had enough for 50 pairs of gloves, 50 pairs of winter hats, we worked that out for zero margin win for Mr. Eubeler.

So he was about to pick up the phone and make the order when the cashier lady knocked his office door. She was a little embarassed to tell us that she mentioned what was going on to a customer and she likes to add 20€ to the bill.
So we recalculated and ended up with 60 pair of hats and 50 pairs of gloves. The cashier lady spend another 20€ and now it was 60/60. The old lady asked if we could wait for half an hour before we order, she will make a call or two. She found out how many children there were (little less under hundred and if there is a list of cloth sizes aviable)... In the meantime, I was taking a smoke and a coffee in front of the shop because it already took longer then I thought. I came back in, hoping to put a nail into the coffin once and for all. Two minutes later I was sitting in my car, old lady as copilot, directing me to I think it was about 6-7 different houses collecting even more money. In the end the original amount from the kids had FOURFOLDED. So we could buy the better version of 100 gloves, 100 whool hats. The old lady club, charming as they were, promised to find a way to get scarfes too but I never heard anything in that direction.

When I came home and the kids from school I told them what just happened the literaly freaked out. At the weekend most of the donators met in the shop to wrap it all up. Because the old lady managed to get the rough size and forenames from every child the shop owner could order those sizes (XS/S mostly ^^) and wrap it up with the right name and small chocolate santas inside.

And I was the one who fitted the santa best. Yes we did it american style, in germany it´s normally the "chriskind" that brings the toys, not santa claus but you never see the christkind so we had to use santa. The sack was enormous, we had to sew two linens together and drop it all on a small wagon prepared that it looks like I would pull the sack behind me and you would not see the wagon. So one after another I shouted the name of the child that was standing on the packets label I pulled out, in the deepest voice I had (and at the evening I had no voice) playing the santa game ^^.

That was crazy as hell for me. BTW, the kids did not want the other kids to know that they came up with the idea. Instead, we said "friendly people".

Probably the longest off-topic post ever made on ATS.


Edit2: OF COURSE THE 250€ WERE FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT JOKERS!

a reply to: Poppcocked
And I never said you said it. I was just showing that there is no difference in the same bunch of people.
Idiot atheist will always be idiots.
Idiot religious people will always be idiots.
You post sounded very generalizing so I did what I did. I was raised catholic, very catholic. I always hated to be forced to church. When I got 14 I left the church because that was the time when I found out what crimes catholic church did in WW2 and a bunch of more in the past. So I decided that there could not be a catholic god giving thumbs up to that. Then I looked into other religions and pretty much found the same scheme everywhere.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

The Constitution is quite clear.

Baptism doesn't belong on the public school football field.

Period.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

NO WHERE is the place to push religion.
If you have to push it, it is fundamentally flawed.

originally posted by: VictorBloodworth
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

NO WHERE is the place to push religion.
If you have to push it, it is fundamentally flawed.

In a church it isn't pushing it. It is reinforcing good morals, good ethics, and a love for your fellow man. Something quite alien to your own philosophy I'm sure.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: VictorBloodworth
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

NO WHERE is the place to push religion.
If you have to push it, it is fundamentally flawed.

In a church it isn't pushing it. It is reinforcing good morals, good ethics, and a love for your fellow man. Something quite alien to your own philosophy I'm sure.

Why some seem to insist you can only have good morals, good ethics, and a love for your fellow man if they believe in a mystical being is really kind of scary.

The day I stepped completely out of the God Circle - - it was like a giant weight was lifted off of me. I began to see Life. Every day living. I became a genuine person of the human race - - - instead of behaving a certain way for reward.

An atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth – for all men together to enjoy. An atheist accepts that he can get no help through prayer, but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help lead to a life of fulfillment." atheists.org...

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Why, cause I don't believe in your fairytales?
My morals are just fine.
My ethics are are just fine as well.
Love for my fellow man?
That's a day to day thing.
I know this by the quality of the people that choose to spend time with me.
No church or god needed.
I'm not about to get into a pissing match with you about who does more good in the world, me or you....I do my part without braggadocia, and my conscience is clear.

Newsflash: Judging people you don't know because of your own narrow p.o.v.?
I'd say not a very Christian thing to do, but that is contrary to my life experience.
It's exactly what you do, and its exactly why my tolerance for your lies and self riteous nonsense is as low as it is.

a reply to: VictorBloodworth
In fact, its about the only thing I won't tolerate...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: VictorBloodworth
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

NO WHERE is the place to push religion.
If you have to push it, it is fundamentally flawed.

In a church it isn't pushing it. It is reinforcing good morals, good ethics, and a love for your fellow man. Something quite alien to your own philosophy I'm sure.

Why some seem to insist you can only have good morals, good ethics, and a love for your fellow man if they believe in a mystical being is really kind of scary.

The day I stepped completely out of the God Circle - - it was like a giant weight was lifted off of me. I began to see Life. Every day living. I became a genuine person of the human race - - - instead of behaving a certain way for reward.

An atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth – for all men together to enjoy. An atheist accepts that he can get no help through prayer, but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help lead to a life of fulfillment." atheists.org...

Your whole idea of serving God is wrong though.
It is not done to be rewarded.
Doing God's will isn't something to be done so you can reap some reward. IT is done because it is the right thing to do. Some people, many even, do lots of things that are not God's will, but they go along saying it is. People do that without admitting they are doing their own will and calling it God's will. That is why the world is so messed up.

God isn't some mythical fantasy as you hope he is. You don't even know for sure because you have no faith that there is (a God). The only seeds that you let grow are the ones that you have been deceived into planting. That much is obvious in your stated viewpoints.
(The ideas you hope are true, and the ones you don't are those "seeds" If you planted some seeds that only wanted the truth to be it's fruit, then you would be headed towards a more hopeful outcome.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

God isn't some mythical fantasy as you hope he is. You don't even know for sure because you have no faith that there is. The only seeds that you let grow are the ones that you have been deceived into planting. That much is obvious in your stated viewpoints.

What?

That doesn't even make any sense.

originally posted by: VictorBloodworth
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Why, cause I don't believe in your fairytales?
My morals are just fine.
My ethics are are just fine as well.
Love for my fellow man?
That's a day to day thing.
I know this by the quality of the people that choose to spend time with me.
No church or god needed.
I'm not about to get into a pissing match with you about who does more good in the world, me or you....I do my part without braggadocia, and my conscience is clear.

Newsflash: Judging people you don't know because of your own narrow p.o.v.?
I'd say not a very Christian thing to do, but that is contrary to my life experience.
It's exactly what you do, and its exactly why my tolerance for your lies and self riteous nonsense is as low as it is.

I have never judged you. You saying I did is most likely the guilt you feel inside yourself whenever someone comments on your stated viewpoints. It doesn't mean I have judged you. Your beliefs are your own choosing.

a reply to: Annee

I'm using symbolism. Symbolism is something that takes an unbiased contemplation to understand.
I edited my above post that was in reply to you so it is easier to know what I meant.