Western Christians stop with the persecution complex.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: boymonkey74

Another way they can attempt to show they are being percicuted here.
By lying and making stuff up.
Grand you are a liar.

I give up you have resorted to ad homimen attacks
so that precludes anything other than the same old/same old
from you.

You probably can't understand this,
but for a Christian
Christianity is the core of who they
are.
It is integral to their personality
and how they interact with the world.
When you call Christianity evil, you
are by extension calling the soul
of every believing Christian evil.

But you can't understand that because
you so deeply despise Christianity
and the Christians who have hurt you
and those close to you.
You basically admitted that earlier
in the thread.

We are seriously and deeply hurt,
and hurt as badly when you
call Christianity evil, as
your clients have been hurt
by others.

Your compassionate nature stops
at the door if someone of faith
steps in. I guess I understand
that if you have been badly
hurt and can't get over it, and
have to blame all Christians for
the actions of some people who
were wrong in whatever they did
to hurt you and who do not represent
all of Christianity.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: grandmakdw

I never said any of that... i never said you were not Allowed to do anything, or Speak out about anything either, i don't know how long you have felt persecuted as a Christian but throughout History Christians have been the ones to oppress and Kill in the Name of than let's say GLBTQ+ people

and before you get to it i am NOT saying Two wrongs make a right, or this is Revenge for what Christians have done

You guys don't get it.
I don't feel persecuted.
I just won't tolerate being
called ugly names and have
ugly memes thrown at me
or at my core beliefs.

But if GLBTQ+ can get angry
and fight back when generalized
and called ugly and unwarranted
things by ignorant people.

Why don't I have the same right?

a reply to: grandmakdw

Didn't read still waiting where I said Christians are evil.
Pants on fire dude.
But please make more stuff up.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: grandmakdw

Didn't read still waiting where I said Christians are evil.
Pants on fire dude.
But please make more stuff up.

I addressed that in my post to you before this one.

You proved with your little retort that
you passed third grade bully school.. Ha ha

originally posted by: Darth_Prime 1)
Whats interesting to me, is no one is actually getting their Religious Freedom taken away, no one is preventing anyone from Believing anything. Religion is a Belief system, it's "Faith" you believe in, but not everyone believes in the same, or the same way.

2) Marriage Equality, Interracial Marriage, Woman's Rights, GLBTQ+ Protections, none of that takes away anyone's right to believe. all that does is say you can't use your Religion as a Weapon or as a shield to hide behind your discrimination and/or hate

3) Just because more people are speaking out about it, and calling people out on their Hate or Discrimination doesn't mean you are being banned from Believing in something, it's just people are not going to let a Religious Tyranny happen, and let Religion Rule or Create Laws over people that maybe don't believe the same as you

I hope you don't mind, but I've added numbers to your points for ease of responding (I haven't been on the site long enough to figure out how people to that "quote-in, quote-out...response...quote-in...quote-out...response" thing).

Anyway...

1) You are absolutely correct. As I said earlier in this thread (which I admit I regret being part of but in for a penny, in for a pound I guess), I'm a Catholic and although there are some haters out there, I do not feel as though I'm persecuted. As you said, no matter what anybody says or rants and raves about, it doesn't affect what is in my heart. It doesn't stop me from going to mass on Sundays.
I would just add one caveat to that. I really don't want to derail this thread more than it already is, but even though you won't find me protesting in the streets, I have to admit I'm a bit uncomfortable with some of the taxpayer funded non-life-threatening to mother or child abortion stuff. I don't say that as a Catholic (I guess you can only take me at my word on that). I say that because many, many people believe that a person becomes a person upon conception. That's not a "be fruitful and multiply thing," although the act of "killing" does go against some people's beliefs and I don't think it's fair to compel them to partake in that. Just my opinion there and I know it's a lot more complex than that.

2) I agree with what you wrote. That is to say that I personally separate the laws of man from the laws of God. Fortunately that since my job is in construction project management, the two never seem to overlap (other than do onto others and all that). However, I would say that in an insane hypothetical situation where, say, the laws of man dictated that if a concrete truck were to arrive late, the driver should receive lashings... you bet I would have issues with man's law. Beyond that, and please understand that without hearing the tone of voice behind the words, I think you may be lumping in too many "religious yet accepting/peaceful" people in the mix with the extremists. Using one's religion as a "shield to hid behind discrimination/hate" is pretty harsh and to be candid, I don't think that is an accurate description of the vast, VAST majority of people that attend Mass on Sundays. Again, I may be reading into the words a little more than I should or misinterpreting the tone.

3) I guess it depends on who you think should be "called out." It gets a little fuzzy when you say that "people" are full of hate or discrimination. Don't get me wrong, there are TONS of haters out there. However, suggesting that there is a snowball's chance in heck of Religious Tyranny happening in the United States....?
Also, just my opinion, but I think you are possibly lumping in "all Christians" together. Or at least, that is how I read that and again, I could be interpreting your words.

a reply to: grandmakdw

So now cchristians are not being percicuted in the west?.
Glad you agree with my op then.
You are still a liar though.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: grandmakdw

NOT

You guys don't get it.
I don't feel persecuted.
I just won't tolerate being
called ugly names and have
ugly memes thrown at me
or at my core beliefs.

But if GLBTQ+ can get angry
and fight back when generalized
and called ugly and unwarranted
things by ignorant people.

Why don't I have the same right?

You DO have the same right.

My only advice is to engage with people that are sincerely looking for meaningful discussions, and dismiss the bomb-throwing haters.

I know how you feel (or at least I think I know how you feel) when someone says, "Christians believe _________!!! Christians do ____________!!!" I assure you, they aren't worth your time. I think that, for the most part, people that throw that stuff around have a much smaller audience than you may think. Also keep in mind that, in general, people that espouse so much hate, more than likely have very sad, depressing lives. There is nothing that you can say or do to them that will make their lives any worse than they already are.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Who said you didn't?

When GLBTQ+ people show up at your Church that say "God Hates Christians" by all means yell back.

When GLBTQ+ people call Christians Unnatural, Abnormal, Defects with Mental Illness, Again, yell back.

When You Get Physically abused and attacked and left homeless just because you are Christian, please yell back

No one is saying you can't. but, you (i'm not saying you specifically) can't hide behind your Religion and say something is that is Bigoted and get angry when someone calls you out on it (again, not you specifically)

a reply to: eluryh22

sorry I should have specified better. i wasn't talking about all Christians(or Religions) just the Radical ones, i agree it's not fair to group all of them together and say "Christian" = Hate because not all Christians(Religions) are like that.

and i don't think there will be Religious tyranny, but the way some people talk it sounds like that is what they want, the ability to maintain control over everyone through their personal Religion

a reply to: grandmakdw

It is integral to their personality
and how they interact with the world.
When you call Christianity evil, you
are by extension calling the soul
of every believing Christian evil.

It's not as integral as you're making it out to be. 70%+ of all atheists in the USA were once Christians link. That 'integral' aspect of who they were, they changed. They themselves did this through their own volition. Likely after hearing some compelling arguments from the other side that finally resonated with them.

So no. We are not calling their 'soul' evil.

Christians evangelize, and the opposing side does as well. That's just the nature of the beast. The religious think religion is a great force in the World and want to spread the 'good news' about it. Others, such as myself, see it as 'bad news', and wish to oppose it. I will continue to actively share my thoughts towards the people of faith. I welcome you to do the same towards us antitheists. I won't accuse you of forcing me to convert

originally posted by: eluryh22
I hope you don't mind, but I've added numbers to your points for ease of responding (I haven't been on the site long enough to figure out how people to that "quote-in, quote-out...response...quote-in...quote-out...response" thing).

Use the [ quote ] and [ / quote ] tags (without spaces) to divide a whole quote into portions.

Any text between [ quote ] and [ / quote ] will appear quoted in posts.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: grandmakdw

.

1) Christians evangelize, and the opposing side does as well.

2) The religious think religion is a great force in the World and want to spread the 'good news' about it.

3) Others, such as myself, see it as 'bad news', and wish to oppose it. I will continue to actively share my thoughts towards the people of faith.

4) I welcome you to do the same towards us antitheists. I won't accuse you of forcing me to convert

Added numbers to your post (and as a disclaimer, I reduced it to my perceived key points).... side note: I really do have to get a better handle on the quoting functions.

1) True, but what is the manner of evangelization? For my part, and for pretty much everyone I know (which is miniscule relative to the population of the US or even less the world), we don't beat people over the head with the Bible. When it comes to topics such as this, one of my favorite sayings that has been credited to St. Francis of Assisi is...
Preach the Gospel always, use words when necessary.
I don't feel the need to "preach" to people. I do the best I can and conduct myself in as moral a way as I can and I can only hope others see that and get inspired. If they ask me about issues regarding faith, I will certainly answer but I don't project it onto anyone.

2) Similar to #1, yes, that is true. However, and forgive me if I'm wrong about what you are saying, but I don't demand anyone listen to me spout my beliefs... because I never do. Believe it or not, many Christians are the same way. This is not meant to "call you out" or anything, but you say that people want to "spread the good news" and you give the impression that the "typical Christian" is out there beating down doors and harassing people on subway station platforms. That simply isn't the case (for the most part) and I suspect you are embellishing to try to make what would otherwise be a valid point.

3) Feel free. To be candid, if there is anything you can say that can truly shake someone's faith, then you may be doing them a tremendous favor. However, if you do so, and shatter a person's faith simply to prop-up your own ego, then there may be other issues there.

4) I'm fairly sure by way of any of my actions, I could ever be accused of forcing anyone to convert.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
It's not as integral as you're making it out to be. 70%+ of all atheists in the USA were once Christians link. That 'integral' aspect of who they were, they changed. They themselves did this through their own volition. Likely after hearing some compelling arguments from the other side that finally resonated with them.

Former Christian here. I became an atheist after years of being lukewarm and generally questioning my faith. Slowly opening my mind to alternatives and finally becoming more of a skeptical person in general. Some members of my family refuse to believe I'm an atheist at heart. I don't despise them. It works for them, and they aren't harming anyone. I understand how me taking stabs at Christianity can feel like a personal attack to some (as grams mentioned in a post), the belief is a very real and personal thing to the faithful. I understand the reasons they can go on the defensive. I understand the reasons they can feel persecuted. I understand this stance and that stance.. I get it. I don't really feel like explaining what I do despise about Christianity and why. Been there done that on ATS.

I like occasionally poking fun at Christianity. I am occasionally teased by my family for being an atheist. I actually find it awesome. The jokes my brother and I make about our belief/lack of belief are rib ticklers. I guess that means we are persecuting each other. He'll get a good laugh when I tell him that.

Edit: He laughed his ass off.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Ted Cruz called Atheists the 'Taliban.'

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: boymonkey74

I think some of the recent discussions surrounding American Christians is related to the recent Oregon school shooting and how the media seemed to breeze over the religious element to it, choosing to focus more on gun control agenda etc. etc.

But they didn't breeze over it. I heard the Christian part in pretty much every report I've seen.

The people claiming persecution seem to expect the media to run around in circles while screaming that the war on Christianity is officially underway and all Christians everywhere should fear for their lives.

I personally prefer news reports that are grounded in reality, and would hate to see the news irresponsibly spread such hysteria.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Yikes...you really have NO concept of how hypocritical you are, do you?

You have repeatedly, over and over, accused non-Christians of being evil Nazis, of being hateful and slinging shyte at you.
Then you back-pedal and say you are a "live and let live" kind of gal - but continue to spew your accusations and labels at everyone who doesn't agree with you.

You just don't get it....do you? You don't.

Stop telling people to "look in the mirror" until you, yourself, have done it, and admitted how horrible you've been to non-believers on this site. How many, many times you've labelled them as "Christophobic" and "evil" and "haters" . Just, read through your posts, grams.

Your attitude and plank-eyed, repetitive posts are really pitiable. But, I've gotten over feeling "bad" for you.
You need to own your own stuff, madam professor.
And if you can't - then, therapy would be a good idea.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: grandmakdw

It is integral to their personality
and how they interact with the world.
When you call Christianity evil, you
are by extension calling the soul
of every believing Christian evil.

It's not as integral as you're making it out to be. 70%+ of all atheists in the USA were once Christians link. That 'integral' aspect of who they were, they changed. They themselves did this through their own volition. Likely after hearing some compelling arguments from the other side that finally resonated with them.


So no. We are not calling their 'soul' evil.

Christians evangelize, and the opposing side does as well. That's just the nature of the beast. The religious think religion is a great force in the World and want to spread the 'good news' about it. Others, such as myself, see it as 'bad news', and wish to oppose it. I will continue to actively share my thoughts towards the people of faith. I welcome you to do the same towards us antitheists. I won't accuse you of forcing me to convert

It's not always a case of debating the issue and making a decision one way or the other.


Sometimes, you just observe the world around you and see how people close to you have suffered before dying, or people have lost lives, homes, memories in some natural disaster and you ask where is this merciful God to intervene for them? Are you really going to tell me that it was God's plan for my coworkers 27 year old daughter to die when her plane slammed into a mountain in Idaho?

One day, you have the epiphany that we're ON OUR OWN.
And you just. don't. believe. anymore.

a reply to: Cheddarhead

# man sorry dude.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Thank you, Boymonkey.

Pattye

Come on, seriously. I'm nonreligious and MANY posts around this site are very anti-religion/anti-christianity bordering on hate.