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Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," .... "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.
1 (xiv)
“Nothing,” they insist, is not any of the things I discuss. Nothing [they say] is “nonbeing,” in some vague and ill- defined sense….Some philosophers and many theologians define and redefine “nothing” as not being any of the versions of nothing that scientists currently describe. But therein, in my opinion, lies the intellectual bankruptcy of much of theology and some of modern philosophy. For surely “nothing” is every bit as physical as “something,” especially if it is to be defined as the “absence of something.”
1. is elegant
2. contains few arbitrary or adjustable elements
3. agrees with or explains all existing observations.
4. makes detailed predictions about future observations that can disprove or falsify the model if they are not born out.
[Psa 40:5 ASV] - "Many, O Jehovah my God, are the wonderful works which thou hast done, And thy thoughts which are to us-ward; They cannot be set in order unto thee; If I would declare and speak of them, They are more than can be numbered."
[Job 26:14 NASB] "Behold, these are the fringes of His ways; And how faint a word we hear of Him! But His mighty thunder, who can understand?"
“He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has even put eternity in their heart; yet mankind will never find out the work that the true God has made from start to finish.” (Ec 3:11)
There MUST be a pre-existing all powerful intelligent life to produce the physical Universe and all the things in it.
Not if the only thing you are basing it on is your belief that the Bible is the word of your creator instead of various superstitious men.
Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2
There MUST be a pre-existing all powerful intelligent life to produce the physical Universe and all the things in it.
Why?
Not if the only thing you are basing it on is your belief that the Bible is the word of your creator instead of various superstitious men.
Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.
Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2
There MUST be a pre-existing all powerful intelligent life to produce the physical Universe and all the things in it.
Why?
Not if the only thing you are basing it on is your belief that the Bible is the word of your creator instead of various superstitious men.
Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.
"Life comes from pre-existing life" vs "Out of nothing, something".
originally posted by: Hijinx
a reply to: edmc^2
You use a lot of words like logical, and fact.... how ever you do not provide either to support your claims.
Lots of faith, hope, and belief... no facts.
originally posted by: Sremmos80
Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.
I would disagree, would you mind providing some more that isn't from the Bible?
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2
"Life comes from pre-existing life" vs "Out of nothing, something".
That is a very bad dichotomy.
One is speaking of the origin of life the other is the origin, apparently, of the Universe.
While, obviously, there could not be life without the Universe, upon what do you base the claim that life can only come from life?
BTW, the scientific claim is not that something came from nothing.
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2
Why? because it's a scientific fact.
Certainly, life often comes from life. That is a fact.
That does not mean that it always must.
It often rains on a cloudy day. That does not mean that it always does.
Because you are talking about two different things as if they are the same. I thought I said that. The origin of the Universe has nothing to do with the origin of life.
Why is it a "bad dichotomy" when it's the view taken by each side?
I'm an atheist. I have no need for a creator.
Where do you stand Phage, if you don't mind me asking?
?
Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," .... "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist
originally posted by: peppycat
I believe in God the creator, but when I try to think about this deeply, I wonder where God Came from. If life comes from pre-existing life then did God come from somewhere or has God always existed. I am just so baffled by this mystery that a part of me thinks everything has always existed in a circle.
Thank you for the thoughtful OP and in Christ I will meditate on this mystery, but maybe you have an idea about where God came from. Was God the first conscious? Does that mean God came from nothing? I like to think God has always been and always will be, but since we are a part of God in that we are his creation, we have always been and always will be weather our conscious goes on into eternity or not.
You've given me much to contemplate.