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Why Creation Is The Only Logical Explanation...

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posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 12:58 AM
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Why is Creation the only logical explanation for the origin of life and the universe?

Simply put it makes sense, moreover, the evidence is all around us. It's hard to miss them. Unless of course you choose to completely ignore them. Or somehow think that there's nothing supernatural about them. That the God of the Christians is really a figment of the imagination - of the "evolved brain". And that the evidence for an intelligent creator is explainable through science, in a purely materialistic terms.

Matter of fact, that is how, I believe, many if not all atheists look at the evidence, in a purely materialistic, naturalistic way. 'Nature did it and science explains it!' Hence, there's no need for a personal creator. And those who are in denial are simply ignorant of the facts and unscientific. Of course, they are profoundly mistaken as the evidence will show. But let's assume for the sake of this discussion that they are correct, what then? Case closed? Sure, for the atheist. But not to those who can't accept a shallow, incomplete and unsatisfactory explanation. The fact is, there are many things science and nature can't explain. There are things in the world, in the universe that are beyond the grasps of science. Things that are supernatural in nature and origin. Even simple questions like "why is there life? why are we here? what's the meaning of life?" science and nature can't answer these satisfactorily. It is so limited when it comes to deeper things. Utterly superficial in my opinion. So, what to do then if you're an atheist? Where can you find the answers? Since the Bible is considered a myth and a joke to some, where do atheists go then? There's no choice but to turn to something they had discarded. Something they considered unscientific, even dead! They turn to philosophy and metaphysics in the hopes of making sense why life and the universe exist. Unfortunately, rather than provide a clear answer, they create more questions. And in so doing they reduced themselves into playing the role of a philosopher rather than a scientist. They blur the lines of demarcation between the two disciplines. Hence, pure scientific questions are answered philosophically and philosophical explanations (however irrational) are accepted as scientific statements. A sad consequence of choosing to ignore the evidence. We've seen this so many times, I've seen it. And much to my surprise, even people of high intellect get deluded into believing the philosophical mumbo-jumbo. They become incapable of recognizing the parlor trick at play.

Case in point (and it's a good one).

Steven Hawking (considered one of the greatest living scientists), in regards to the existence of the universe with all its incredible fine-tuning, stated the following:


Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," .... "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.


www.theguardian.com...

Unbelievable! So, because "...there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," .... "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."

Does this make sense to you? Do you accept such answer - especially from a brilliant mind like Hawking's? If you do, is it science? Or is it philosophy? Or...is it metaphysics?

What say you?

One thing for sure, it's not science and not even a scientific theory. In fact, some top scientists are questioning the validity of such explanation. There's no evidence for it, they say. Indeed! For how can the universe exist from "nothing" when gravity is not nothing? Furthermore, how can a law be a creative medium if all it does is predict and describe what naturally happens? In addition, where did the law of gravity come from when there was nothing to begin with in the first place? It's an incoherent statement if you ask me. Hence, our famous physicist is, in my opinion, dabbling in the worlds of philosophy, metaphysics mixed with science. The statement is clearly a science fiction. Of course, you can argue your point to prove me wrong but I think I'm correct.

What about Prof. Laurence Krauss (considered one of the top physicists/Cosmologist) who wrote a book entitled "A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather than Nothing"? He attempted to explain what "nothing" this way.


“Nothing,” they insist, is not any of the things I discuss. Nothing [they say] is “nonbeing,” in some vague and ill- defined sense….Some philosophers and many theologians define and redefine “nothing” as not being any of the versions of nothing that scientists currently describe. But therein, in my opinion, lies the intellectual bankruptcy of much of theology and some of modern philosophy. For surely “nothing” is every bit as physical as “something,” especially if it is to be defined as the “absence of something.”
1 (xiv)

www.amazon.com...

Did you get it? Basically what he said is this:

'Because something is physical, nothing must be physical, especially if you define it as the absence of something.'



Makes sense? Or just another nonsense? What do you think?

It's nonsensical if you ask me! In fact, the way I see it, it was done by word equivocation and mental gymnastic. "Nothing" becomes something because it was defined "as the absence of something" (a quantum vacuum as it is called). Which leads us to (in Prof. Krauss' mind) the reason why the Universe came into being.

Incredible or I should say unbelievable don't you think? "Nothing" is really not nothing but something because Prof. Krauss defined it as "physical" but just "the absence of something."

Now, how could that be? Could it be that he's referring to an invisible entity but just don't want to admit it? You know, like God? If so what would that make him?

In any case, if you see the logic in Prof. Krauss' statement or that of Prof. Hawking, that it's scientific or that it make sense in its purest term, I'm all ears. But be forewarned, both professors are considered world class scientists. So if you can outdo them, then more power to you.

Unfortunately, however irrational, - (philosophical) - ideas like these are promoted as scientific facts in many books and in many academies. And atheists alike clung to them and repeat them as if they are the ultimate truth, the word of "god". After all, they come from the great minds of great (atheist) scientists. So why doubt their minds? Why question their great intellect? Would you?

What a dilemma. To accept or not to accept a faulty logic from authority.

But compounding the dilemma, atheist face many more problems, including the difficulty of explaining how nothing can produce a thinking intelligent mind. Why or how "nothing" can create a highly fine-tuned universe? How "nothing" can create law and gravity, how nothing can create intelligibility in nature, etc?

....




posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 12:59 AM
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...
Simply saying, "Nature did it" won't cut it, just as Christians are mistakenly get accused of saying "God did it" won't cut it. No! More is required to have a satisfactory answer. Also, simply saying "we don't know" won't cut either. Sure, it's alright to say 'I don't know'. That's okay for there are many things 'we don't know'. But it's entirely a different thing to say 'I don't know' and actually believe in it from saying 'I don't know' and have an open mind. It's blind faith to believe in something you don't know, especially, in this case, when it's "nothing". In fact, it takes MORE faith to believe that "nothing" created the universe. Hence, I guess we can say, if Hawking and Krauss were right, atheist base their faith on "nothing"!

On the other hand, from the Christian point of view, I believe that Life was created by an intelligent Divine Creator. A personal God who has a name. In Hebrew, he is known as YHVH. Some call him Yahweh, but he is commonly known as Yehowah / Jehovah. He revealed himself through his amazing creation, through his son Jesus Christ and through the pages of the Bible.

So as a Christian, my view of the origin of life (based on honest consideration and study of the evidence available) is that Yahweh / Jehovah God is the source of life. Hence, the statement "Life comes from pre-existing life" is an undeniable fact of life. It's a view I hold that is supported by an unassailable truth and testable evidence within the bounds of rational thought.

Whilst the Atheist point of view:

"Out of nothing, something" - is irrational, an untestable, unfalsifiable view, a (to be blunt but not meant to offend) delusional point of view as there's no evidence to support it whether scientifically or mathematically. An unworkable model. A philosophical assertion.

Of course to my Athiest's friends, it's your prerogative to prove me wrong. Or show that your worldview is scientific while mine is not.

For my part, the statement "Life comes from pre-existing life" is more than enough to prove my point.

"Life comes from pre-existing life" (to use Prof. Hawking's criterion for a good model pg 51 The Grand Design )


1. is elegant
2. contains few arbitrary or adjustable elements
3. agrees with or explains all existing observations.
4. makes detailed predictions about future observations that can disprove or falsify the model if they are not born out.


www.amazon.com...

Hence, you can't get life from nothing. It's impossible no matter what experiment you do. So, the only logical explanation then, and the only conclusion (that makes sense) is this:

There MUST be an Always Existing Life to produce life! There MUST be a pre-existing all powerful intelligent life to produce the physical Universe and all the things in it. A loving, all powerful UNCREATED God who willed the universe into existence. He is not the created "god of the gaps" that atheist like to throw at Christians but The Living God.

Knowing this fact, is just the beginning of an unending understanding and wisdom about God. An ever growing knowledge of the Creator and appreciation of Yahweh / Jehovah God.

As the Scripture says:


[Psa 40:5 ASV] - "Many, O Jehovah my God, are the wonderful works which thou hast done, And thy thoughts which are to us-ward; They cannot be set in order unto thee; If I would declare and speak of them, They are more than can be numbered."



[Job 26:14 NASB] "Behold, these are the fringes of His ways; And how faint a word we hear of Him! But His mighty thunder, who can understand?"



“He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has even put eternity in their heart; yet mankind will never find out the work that the true God has made from start to finish.” (Ec 3:11)


Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.

(I suppose I could have created a shorter OP but there's so much to say about this topic, so it is what it is)

So what say you?

God's Beautiful Creation!

youtu.be...

* Creation - refers strictly to Biblical Creation as described in Genesis 1:1.
1. A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather than Nothing - xiv


+56 more 
posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:03 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2




There MUST be a pre-existing all powerful intelligent life to produce the physical Universe and all the things in it.

Why?


Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.
Not if the only thing you are basing it on is your belief that the Bible is the word of your creator instead of various superstitious men.



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:11 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2




There MUST be a pre-existing all powerful intelligent life to produce the physical Universe and all the things in it.

Why?


Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.
Not if the only thing you are basing it on is your belief that the Bible is the word of your creator instead of various superstitious men.



Why?

Because the alternative is to believe / accept that "nothing" created everything. Hence blind faith.

And the Bible is not the only source for evidence that life or the universe was a creation by God.

Creation or nature also gives us evidence.


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posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:13 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2

You use a lot of words like logical, and fact.... how ever you do not provide either to support your claims.

Lots of faith, hope, and belief... no facts.


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posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:13 AM
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Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.


I would disagree, would you mind providing some more that isn't from the Bible?



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:16 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2




There MUST be a pre-existing all powerful intelligent life to produce the physical Universe and all the things in it.

Why?


Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.
Not if the only thing you are basing it on is your belief that the Bible is the word of your creator instead of various superstitious men.



BTW - I have nothing against science nor the Bible has anything against science. It's not really Science Vs. Bible but two different world view:

"Life comes from pre-existing life" vs "Out of nothing, something".



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:18 AM
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I believe in God the creator, but when I try to think about this deeply, I wonder where God Came from. If life comes from pre-existing life then did God come from somewhere or has God always existed. I am just so baffled by this mystery that a part of me thinks everything has always existed in a circle.
Thank you for the thoughtful OP and in Christ I will meditate on this mystery, but maybe you have an idea about where God came from. Was God the first conscious? Does that mean God came from nothing? I like to think God has always been and always will be, but since we are a part of God in that we are his creation, we have always been and always will be whether our conscious goes on into eternity or not.
You've given me much to contemplate.
edit on 2-10-2015 by peppycat because: spelling error


+29 more 
posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:19 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2



"Life comes from pre-existing life" vs "Out of nothing, something".

That is a very bad dichotomy.
One is speaking of the origin of life the other is the origin, apparently, of the Universe.

While, obviously, there could not be life without the Universe, upon what do you base the claim that life can only come from life?

BTW, the scientific claim is not that something came from nothing.



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:19 AM
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originally posted by: Hijinx
a reply to: edmc^2

You use a lot of words like logical, and fact.... how ever you do not provide either to support your claims.

Lots of faith, hope, and belief... no facts.


Here's a simple fact for you if you missed it:

"Life comes from pre-existing life"

Hence, you can't get life from nothing. It's impossible no matter what experiment you do.

Why? because it's a scientific fact.

Now if you don't agree, then prove me wrong.

Also, it's not faith, hope belief - it's just a simple fact of life.



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:22 AM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80

Of course, there's much more evidence supporting my position but the above is a good starting point.


I would disagree, would you mind providing some more that isn't from the Bible?


"Life comes from pre-existing life"

If this statement is wrong and unprovable, then my entire belief crumbles.

Care to try?


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posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:23 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2



Why? because it's a scientific fact.

Certainly, life often comes from life. That is a fact.
That does not mean that it always must.

It often rains on a cloudy day. That does not mean that it always does.


+5 more 
posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:23 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2

See above.



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:25 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2



"Life comes from pre-existing life" vs "Out of nothing, something".

That is a very bad dichotomy.
One is speaking of the origin of life the other is the origin, apparently, of the Universe.

While, obviously, there could not be life without the Universe, upon what do you base the claim that life can only come from life?

BTW, the scientific claim is not that something came from nothing.



Why is it a "bad dichotomy" when it's the view taken by each side?

In fact, it's a good starting point of discussion since it boils down to - where did life or if you prefer the universe came from?

Where do you stand Phage, if you don't mind me asking?



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:28 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2



Why? because it's a scientific fact.

Certainly, life often comes from life. That is a fact.
That does not mean that it always must.

It often rains on a cloudy day. That does not mean that it always does.




This, I would say is a bad dichotomy.

One has nothing to do with the other.

One is unchanging while the other is variable depending on the conditions.


+24 more 
posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:29 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2


Why is it a "bad dichotomy" when it's the view taken by each side?
Because you are talking about two different things as if they are the same. I thought I said that. The origin of the Universe has nothing to do with the origin of life.



Where do you stand Phage, if you don't mind me asking?
I'm an atheist. I have no need for a creator.



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:29 AM
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So, you're saying it's more logical to believe in a "creator" of which there is ZERO direct proof, than it is to believe that

Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," .... "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist
?

THAT is illogical.

We can directly perceive the universe, parts of it, life, and matter. It's much more logical to believe it has always been here and never had a beginning, or that a spontaneous generation occurred, or that the universe *is* "god," than it is to say there is a "being" that we can't directly perceive who consciously "created" all this stuff.



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:32 AM
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I'm not quite intelligent enough YET to participate in a debate like this but I will be watching this thread intensely. Have fun gents.



posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:35 AM
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originally posted by: peppycat
I believe in God the creator, but when I try to think about this deeply, I wonder where God Came from. If life comes from pre-existing life then did God come from somewhere or has God always existed. I am just so baffled by this mystery that a part of me thinks everything has always existed in a circle.
Thank you for the thoughtful OP and in Christ I will meditate on this mystery, but maybe you have an idea about where God came from. Was God the first conscious? Does that mean God came from nothing? I like to think God has always been and always will be, but since we are a part of God in that we are his creation, we have always been and always will be weather our conscious goes on into eternity or not.
You've given me much to contemplate.


Thanks PeppyCat for the thoughtful words.

Since God is UNCREATED, therefore He has no beginning and has no end. He always existed. Otherwise the alternative is, he was created, which regresses to an un-ending question of who created the creator of God.

There's no other answer - but that he is what He is, Uncreated.

To help you contemplate - think of the concept of infinity. We have it mathematics and sciences. So when we say an infinite number, it means as it says, no beginning and no end.


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posted on Oct, 2 2015 @ 01:37 AM
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I think your opinion is based on a misconception / simplification you have. To make yourself look or feel better.

I have not heard one scientifically minded person claim they know how the universe was created. Quite the opposite. They theorize and openly admit they will never understand all of it.

You are the one pretending to understand an omnipotent beings methods and motives.



Did God give you common sense ? Then tell me who sounds like they have an inflated ego and delusion's of genius out of those two camps.



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