Rand Paul: The only logical choice

So I just finished watching the GOP debate on CNN and I had to come here to try and talk some basic sense.

It doesn't matter what 'party' you think you are, or whether you consider yourself conservative, liberal, etc etc etc, Rand Paul dropped some serious bombs tonight and demonstrated that he is clearly the most logical and sincere candidate there is in the entire 2016 presidential race.

Ultimately he probably doesn't want to run as a republican, but he has learned from his fathers mistakes and realized that he needs the power of the RNC behind him in order to stand a chance at getting elected. If you have an ounce of critical thinking ability and are willing to consider the whole picture of any issue, Rand Paul's views are the only ones that actually make sense. I only wish he had the aggressiveness to loudly point out the failures of logic in the others.

Case in point: When the candidates were talking about ISIS/Syria/Assad, many of them were boasting how they had wanted to strike Syria 3years ago and take out Assad, etc etc while not a single one of them (except Rand) seemed to realize that ISIS are OPPOSED to Assad, and that taking out Assad, would have caused ISIS to grow like throwing gasoline on a campire!!!! The situation in Syria would have gone exactly like Libya did, and the chaos vacuum we left behind would have been an even more ideal place for ISIS to take hold. As we speak ISIS are now taking control of parts of Libya and growing every day.


Do these other candidates (Democratic or Republican) not understand causality???? I mean do normal people at this level really shoot from the hip with policies like Chris Christie and these other morons spouting off about drug policy, and ripping up agreements, or outright refusing to talk to the worlds leaders??? ARE THEY FRICKIN SERIOUS????!??!?!

Rand Paul wants a strong military, but he wants to actually use diplomacy.
He honors the freedoms guaranteed in the constitution, while fighting to build American wealth.
He openly discussed the FACT the Iraq war was a mistake and maybe 5 people applauded.
He is able to separate his personal beliefs from his job as a REPRESENTATIVE of the PEOPLE.
He wants a fair and just tax system that doesn't involve tens of thousands of tax ins & outs


I mean every day I come more and more to terms with the fact the vast majority of the world are either idiots or just don't care at all.

I'm sorry but it's true, so you have to talk logic in very simplistic terms, but the impulsive "yea, blow up those guys!!" or the grade-school "I'm never talking to you again!!!" kinda crap is actually pathetic and it's really sad to see that politics and the American psyche have apparently descended to this level where someone who spells out basic truths and facts doesn't stand a chance of being elected, and the guy leading the polls currently is the most high-school-drama-bitchy, obnoxious douchebag I have ever seen take part in a debate.

I wanted to like Trump. A number of my friends are rooting for him, and I've only really seen bits n pieces of things he has said on political shows etc, plus how his words got a bit twisted on him about the immigration issue. But dear God this man is an immature, disgusting narcissist. I'm glad in fact that he made it easy to dislike him because I have always thought he reeked of obnoxious smarm. So how can so many people be rooting for this guy? Have we really become that much of a sad, angry, spiteful society that we cheer on the guy who hurls childish insults so freely? Maybe that's why Americans love MMA so much these days?? I mean, I have my own personal anger issues sometimes, and I in fact enjoy MMA, but as a sport, not just to see people get bloodied up. It seems to me, that people just want to watch bitch-fests these days, or actually watch people get really hurt, and that says a lot about where we are headed. It probably explains the problems our society is having with extreme random violence and shootings too....

Where did it all go so wrong? The celebration of stupidity? The ridicule of intelligence and nerdiness?? I'm honestly actually saddened.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

Are you Paul Rand ?

I think it's sad to see that there is virtually zero support for Rand here on ATS. I get the reasons why, as it did seem he betrayed his own father in 2012, a year in which these boards were lit up by his father's legacy. But zero support is a bit harsh! He got like 2 claps from the crowd. Yikes.

With that said, on his views and his stances, he's not really incredibly far off from Ron. His foreign policy may have done him in, but that's mostly because republicans just cannot support somone who isn't foaming at the mouth concerning going to war, like right NOW. I was actually surprised by his stance, because I always viewed him as being a main stream elitist etc, in this regard. But tonight, he got grilled for not being a war-hawk, so I respect him a lot more now.

He won't get anywhere with the GOP. He's trying to do what his father couldn't, and now there are so many distractions politically, that it simply won't happen. Trump is the wild card, the wild card which I believe has killed all chances of a truly genuine leader of the U.S. to emerge. The people here, would rather focus on superficial BS, even on the right, as they did with Obama. People want Hollywood actors, not presidents. It's truly sad.

Now I will sit and watch Idiocracy unfold, in the most real sense. People are #ing stupid! It's a terrible thing.

i would have to agree. hes not the first paul that has been overlooked by many of whatever side you consider yourself to be on. i really enjoy listening to ron and rand though rands views slightly differ from his fathers in a few areas he also has a very critical thinking sort of way about him

Rand Paul is NOT Ron Paul...

Ron Paul represents the path our country should be on...and if he wasn't forced out by the system, our country would be on a path to greatness...

If Rand Paul was even NEAR his father in thinking his father would be out there promoting him..

Rand Paul's father is NOT out there promoting his son...

Think about it...

Pay close attention to the fact that no-one gives a crap about this thread as well. There is a HUGE difference between now and 2012, right here on ATS. Everythng has been shifted to the extreme leftist socialist "liberal" views, lately. It's been hard to watch. :/

maybe you should start reading a bit slower coastlinekid.. never said they were the same. just said I enjoyed listening to them both

originally posted by: coastlinekid
Rand Paul is NOT Ron Paul...

Ron Paul represents the path our country should be on...and if he wasn't forced out by the system, our country would be on a path to greatness...

If Rand Paul was even NEAR his father in thinking his father would be out there promoting him..

Rand Paul's father is NOT out there promoting his son...

Think about it...

That's actually not true at all.
reason.com...


thehill.com...

Thanks for the thread.

Notice something about Rand's polling results. They are pretty nill, at least higher than Bush, not that it matters anyway if he's chosen to get in. Should be more despite any negative points.

I liked what Rand Paul had to say and I thought he said some of the best statements in the debate. Paul, Fiorina, and Carson had the most knowledgeable things to say. Paul made the most sense out of everyone but he'll never win.

originally posted by: Wookiep
Pay close attention to the fact that no-one gives a crap about this thread as well. There is a HUGE difference between now and 2012, right here on ATS. Everythng has been shifted to the extreme leftist socialist "liberal" views, lately. It's been hard to watch. :/

Quite the opposite. The site actually has a large population of Right-Wing supporters. That's quite easy to see.

Those of us on the Left have become more vocal lately. We're tired of being beaten down by the vast Right-wing machine just for speaking our mind and many have become emboldened by people like Sanders that are willing to say things the Right cannot stomach.

On topic: I believe Rand is a good person and that he believes in what he says. Although I disagree with him on a few points, I would not fear his presidency as I would the presidency of any other Republican.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

I'm not opposed to vote for him. I like his stances on drug reform. Though, my primary guy right now is Bernie, but I wouldn't be opposed to voting for Rand if Bernie dropped out. Unfortunately for Rand supporters, he is faltering in the polls and made jack squat of an impression at the debate.

1. His philosophy of deregulation created your jobs problem.

Rand Paul loved to preach the gospel of deregulation. He went so far as to proclaim that Obama was putting his “boot heel” on the neck of—get this—British Petroleum. Why? Because BP was being asked to bear part of the cost for the oil spill it created.

That’s right. Rand Paul believes “regulation” is evil, even when it’s only asking a reckless private corporation to clean up its own messes.

Wall Street deregulation crashed the economy in 2008. As a result, the millennial generation is entering the job market at the worst time in modern history. Millennials are facing record levels of unemployment and under-employment. What’s Rand Paul’s solution? More of the same.

2. He doesn’t believe in jobs programs.

Those of us who are fighting for jobs programs and infrastructure investment—two things that would help the millennial generation significantly—have a fierce opponent in Rand Paul. Paul believes government spending is inherently bad, and tax cuts are inherently good. There are jobs proposals that target millennials for assistance. Rand Paul is against them.


3. He thinks “tax cuts” create jobs.

There’s a simple answer to that, once we remember that the wealthy and corporations are paying lower taxes than at any time in modern history.

So where are the jobs?

Rand Paul’s solution is to eliminate the income tax altogether. That would be a red letter day for billionaires, millionaires and corporations. It would spell the end of vital services for the rest of us, in everything from public health to military defense.

Create jobs? Not so much.

4. Those “burdensome union work requirements” gave us Saturdays and Sundays off.

Without unions we would still be working six or seven days a week with no overtime pay. The weekend as we know it wouldn’t exist if we lived in Rand’s world.

Neither would paid vacations, the minimum wage, health and disability benefits, and quite a few other things a lot of working people count on to help them get by.

5. Civil rights for African Americans and other minorities wouldn’t exist.

Rand Paul believes businesses have the right to discriminate against minorities, or against pretty much anybody, because he thinks that’s part of their First Amendment rights.


The First Amendment, as most of you may know, reads as follows: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

There’s nothing in there about “businesses that want to force women like Rosa Parks to stand at the back of the bus when there are empty seats in the front of the bus,” or “lunch counters that won’t serve black folks.”

No, the First Amendment doesn’t say that. But Rand Paul thinks it does. He also says he would’ve voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Here’s a newsflash for Sen. Paul: Millennials come in all races, religions, genders and sexual orientations. They value their rights just as much as Americans of other generations do.

6. He wants to eliminate Social Security.

Because, you know, the “free market” has done so well in protecting Americans’ financial security when they’re disabled or elderly.

Many millennials are collecting Social Security survivor benefits, like Rand Paul compatriot Paul Ryan did. Or disability benefits. Or they have parents and grandparents who are collecting retirement benefits.

Most millennials will live to collect those benefits themselves—if Rand Paul doesn’t get to them first.

7. He wants to eliminate Medicare, Obamacare, and even the private insurance you get through your employer.

“The fundamental reason why Medicare is failing is why the Soviet Union failed,” said Sen. Paul. “Socialism doesn't work.”

Unfortunately for Paul, Medicare is not failing. It has lower overhead than private insurance, lower cost than private insurance, and a lower rate of inflation than private insurance. It is the most successful, and the most popular insurance program in the country.


But as flawed as it is, private health insurance is critical to a lot of people’s physical and financial health. Rand Paul’s so right wing he doesn’t even like that. “We need to get insurance out of the way and let the consumer interact with their doctor the way they did basically before World War II," said Paul. (A lot of people didn’t interact with doctors at all before World War II; the morbidity and mortality statistics show it.)

Speaking as an ophthalmologist, which he is, Paul also said this: “If you think you have the right to healthcare, you are saying basically that I am your slave.” Sen. Paul is not just a conservative, he someone with a poor grasp of concepts like slavery. Healthcare providers are in fact paid under all systems of public and private insurance. They are also free to change professions, take a day off, set their own schedules, and do any number of things that are not associated with the practice of slavery.

Millennials need to know that medical care will be available when they need it. That’s not just something they want. It’s a right.

8. He wants to eliminate Roe v. Wade and have a woman’s right to choose decided by politicians at the state level.

Said Paul, “I would introduce and support legislation to send Roe v. Wade back to the states.”

Why? So that decisions about what a woman does with her body can be made by politicians like that guy in Virginia wanted mandatory transvaginal ultrasounds for any woman who wanted to terminate a pregnancy?

It may come as a surprise to Sen. Paul to learn that a great many millennials are, in fact, women.

The Supreme Court has established that a woman’s right to choose is constitutionally protected. Since then that right has been eroded in a thousand different ways at the state level. Rand Paul would remove this right forever, turning this fundamental principle of autonomy into a campaign issue to be decided by right-wing career politicians.

Way to go, “Mr. Civil Liberties.” And about that …

9. He’s not as strong and advocate for civil liberties as he seems.

At least Rand Paul is uncompromising in his defense of civil liberties, right? Well, not so much. Consider this quote:

“I'm not for profiling people on the color of their skin, or on their religion, but I would take into account where they've been traveling and perhaps, you might have to indirectly take into account whether or not they've been going to radical political speeches by religious leaders. It wouldn't be that they are Islamic. But if someone is attending speeches from someone who is promoting the violent overthrow of our government, that's really an offense that we should be going after— they should be deported or put in prison.”

“It wouldn’t be that they are Islamic,” says Rand Paul. But it’s clear that he’s only talking about a certain kind of terrorism. A lot of Tea Party leaders have “threatened the violent overthrow of the government.” Does Rand Paul think “they should be deported or put in prison”? Or are his brand of civil liberties only for white conservatives?

10. He’s picked the wrong oppressor.

Rand Paul’s brand of libertarian believes that “liberty” is freedom from an oppressive government. But in a democracy the government is us. The real oppressors in today’s economic and political system are the corporations which increasingly dominate all aspects of our public and private lives.

Rand Paul doesn’t have much to say about that. We applaud his stand against drone murders by the US government, but where is his stand against the kind of espionage Amazon and other corporations could use through the use of unregulated drones in the United States? We admire his stand against the NSA, but where is an equally courageous stand against invasions of privacy by corporations like Google? (For more on that topic, see our interview with Yasha Levine.)

Rand Paul would have us turned against the “oppression” of the Democratic process, while turning us over to the real oppression of the Corporate State. That’s not fighting for liberty. It’s fighting for corporations.

Underneath all the freedom jargon, Rand Paul’s pushing the same kind of economic conservatism that has increasingly dominated our political discourse over the last 40 years. He’s resolutely opposed to all of the civil rights advances of the last 50 years, and to any of the government interventions that could make things better for millennials and other Americans now.

Rand Paul wants more of the same tax cuts we’ve already given to him billionaires and corporations. He wants more of the deregulation that ruined the economy in 2008 and has caused so much harm to the environment.

10 Reasons not to vote for Rand Paul

originally posted by: 8675309jenny
I had to come here to try and talk some basic sense...

If you have an ounce of critical thinking ability and are willing to consider the whole picture of any issue, Rand Paul's views are the only ones that actually make sense....

...the fact the vast majority of the world are either idiots or just don't care at all.

...the American psyche [has] apparently descended to this level... and the guy leading the polls currently is the most high-school-drama-bitchy, obnoxious douchebag... this man is an immature, disgusting narcissist. I'm glad in fact that he made it easy to dislike him because I have always thought he reeked of obnoxious smarm. So how can so many people be rooting for this guy? Have we really become that much of a sad, angry, spiteful society that we cheer on the guy who hurls childish insults so freely?

...people just want to watch bitch-fests these days, or actually watch people get really hurt, and that says a lot about where we are headed. It probably explains the problems our society is having with extreme random violence and shootings too....

Where did it all go so wrong? The celebration of stupidity? The ridicule of intelligence and nerdiness??

Oh no! I don't want to be THAT ^^^ person! You convinced me... I'm voting for Rand!!! 'Cause then I'll be just as wise and insightful and enlightened as you and I can look down on the stupid people from my gilded pedastal and insult everyone too, right?

Wrong. There are plenty of reasons NOT to support Rand that are very logical and practical. But you've already made it pretty clear that you are not interested in understanding that so I guess I have nothing more to say...

a reply to: 8675309jenny

On the Republican side, I agree that Rand Paul is the best candidate.

As to his electability?....

Which speaks volumes about where we are as a country.

originally posted by: Gideon70
a reply to: 8675309jenny

Are you Paul Rand ?

The graphic designer?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: Gideon70
a reply to: 8675309jenny

Are you Paul Rand ?

The graphic designer?

Hahaha, didn't even notice until you pointed it out.

originally posted by: Wookiep
Pay close attention to the fact that no-one gives a crap about this thread as well. There is a HUGE difference between now and 2012, right here on ATS. Everythng has been shifted to the extreme leftist socialist "liberal" views, lately. It's been hard to watch. :/

Been saying it, and I'm glad I'm not the only one to see it. Feels like the shift started around the time NLBS started up. Never liked the idea of NLBS, since it seems to lopside everything because YouTube videos can be more engaging than text.

a reply to: amicktd

Going through art school, I did a report on Paul Rand...it was very hard for me to say "Rand Paul" without tripping up for the longest time.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

I agree Rand Paul was great compared to the other bellowing, and loud, angry ignorance coming out of most of them: Christie, Cruz, Fiorina, Huckabee, and the like.

Carson was quiet but ignorant

Paul was level headed and reasonable and not blustering like a tyrant