Tipping the waiter ... is this an unwritten law. Where does this come from?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

My point first and foremost, is that you are basically tipping the restaurant, not the waiter. The restaurant is coming out on top, because they get to pay their wait staff less than minimum wage. I hope I made my point clear.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
Your point is that prices will rise. My point is that everyone should earn at least minimum wage.

A good waiter/waitress will make much more than minimum wage.

You are going to pay it one way or another, either in tips or increased food costs.

So just because it's 'the norm' to tip certain people, those people can be underpaid?

They are not underpaid. Federal/state laws requires you to make up any diference towards the minimum if they do not make enough tips.

You've got a good point here. The restaurant does indeed have to make up the difference. But. If they do make minimum wage in their tips, the restaurant just got off scott-free paying a person $2-3 an hour!!

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
Your point is that prices will rise. My point is that everyone should earn at least minimum wage.

A good waiter/waitress will make much more than minimum wage.

You are going to pay it one way or another, either in tips or increased food costs.

So just because it's 'the norm' to tip certain people, those people can be underpaid?

They are not underpaid. Federal/state laws requires you to make up any diference towards the minimum if they do not make enough tips.

You've got a good point here. The restaurant does indeed have to make up the difference. But. If they do make minimum wage in their tips, the restaurant just got off scott-free paying a person $2-3 an hour!!

The restaurant has the feedom to be "creative" when it sees what and how many tips are given and what the restaurant should pay the waiters in order to make the best possible profit.

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

My point first and foremost, is that you are basically tipping the restaurant, not the waiter. The restaurant is coming out on top, because they get to pay their wait staff less than minimum wage. I hope I made my point clear.

No, the restaurant just pushes cost.

Restaurants are one of the slimmest profit margins you can possibly imagine for a business. If you have your freezer go out, you can be put out of business. Cash flow, especially for restaurants that are in their first 2 years, can be tight enough that having a thosuand dollar increase in cash flow needs for a week can sink a restaurant.

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
You've got a good point here. The restaurant does indeed have to make up the difference. But. If they do make minimum wage in their tips, the restaurant just got off scott-free paying a person $2-3 an hour!!

The restaurant does not pay any of the salary, you do.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

So if I'm barely making a profit in my business I can pay my staff less than minimum wage and tell customers to provide a 15% tip to them so I can pay my overhead? Oh that's just restaurants, right? I can see my point is lost in this OP, as several people refuse to admit I have a legitimate point.

I must withdraw from this OP as I'm beginning to get irritated that although I cede points to others, not a single person understands what I'm getting at. I guess it's just me!
So I'll just stop talking to walls now.

ETA:
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Now you're arguing semantics, of which I will not participate.

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith

Now you're arguing semantics, of which I will not participate.

It is certainly not semantics, it is basic economics.

All costs at every business are paid by the end user. For example, if you want wait staff to make $16 an hour it does not matter what the ratio of tips to paid salary happens to be, the cost is built into the food. With a higher tip rate the food costs can be lower, with a lower (or no) tip rate the food costs will be higher.

None of it will be paid by the restaurant.

a reply to: JohnTheSmith

BUt you aren't getting the point. The point is: if we removed the tipped pay system, you are going to pay it in menu price. You, the customer, will pay either anyway. It is simple economics: a business can't pay more than they make in revenue.

If the idea of the "cheap item" on the menu being a $25 hamburger appeals to you....great. Itll all work out in the end, and the employee will be paid the money you are spending. 6 to one, half dozen to the other.

The only thing you lose is the ability to control service quality. So you will get the same service that any other non tipped service position would provide. Quite comforting: Ill finall have my food served to me with the same exacting service standards as a gas station.