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The Mason Proof

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posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by 99CentsStore
Gleamer please tell me you realize the pyramids, which i believe you are refering to the Giza pyramids, were build at around 2600-2400 B.C. which is about 4000 years before organized freemasonry started in the early 1700s A.D.

[edit on 3-1-2005 by 99CentsStore]

[nonsense]The evidence against this statement is overwhelming. Masons want us to believe so, while actually we all know the truth.[/nonsense]





posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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Sorry I messed up.

[edit on 3-1-2005 by sebatwerk]

[edit on 3-1-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 02:39 PM
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i was reading on an earlier post someone states, undeniable these organizations go back as far as civilisation. Maybe there were organizations then but i dont think they were the same as the modern day masonic institutions. The first recorded minutes are from lodge Number 0 Mother Kilwinning in Scotland. This is how you get people referring to the Scottish rite. This lodge had its charter before 1598 so its hard to say it stretches back to the pyramids. Maybe some symbology used relates to early Egyptians who were fine stone masons but there is no proof they were carrying out todays rituals then.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 09:22 AM
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Some Puzzle Pieces

USA Freemasons comprise about 0.01% of the population.

UFO's are real-the Government either denies or ignores the evidence.

The infiltration of the Freemasons
and their off shoot groups into high powerful
positions in Government is documented.

The USA is far behind all industrial countries in services to the citizens.
There is no country that has engaged in more wars(1776 -) then the USA.
Americans work more hours per week then any other industrial country.
USA education is a disaster.

The infiltration of the Freemasons
and their off shoot groups into high powerful
positions in Government is documented.

The relationship between Freemasons and religion is documented.

The Freemason are very ancient.
Freemason charities go to Freemasons first.
Freemasons call it Sacred Geometry.
Freemasons built/designed a great many major
buildings/roadways world wide.

Nuclear energy is dependent on geometry.

That there are other dimensions is now acknowledged by "science"
We have a tendency to stay in the now -
the immediate affect in general concerns us most.

Freemasons collectively are exceedingly wealthy.

If you don" think that the Freemasons are the great trouble makers of the world
-then try putting any other organizations name where Freemason is written.
I will put site on line that will go beyond the mere twaddle -
that what is stated above is true -
The documentation will be provided-
It is not for argument if there is a Freemason conspiracy.
Freemasons will not be able to post what they perceive as a defense.
If a Freemason is enlightened and out of the Freemason prison and can supply information concerning the ideas discussed he will be welcome.
Only anecdotal inclusion of any Freemason book

I do not have the need or want to debate any point with any Freemason.
The very mandates of your society make your input more then suspect.

The task ahead is daunting - the Freemasons and their running dogs are deeply entrenched in all human endevors - The furure of the USA will be micro-chipped slaves, unless ACTION is taken to make people aware.

War,War and more war is where Freemasons are most comfortable.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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Again I'm new here...and let me know if I'm overstepping my bounds here...but some of this is just plain ludicrious...


Originally posted by GLeamer
Some Puzzle Pieces

USA Freemasons comprise about 0.01% of the population.

Golfie> [sarcasm] Obviously enough to control 99.99% of the rest of the population and sway the outcome of an election to get more masonic people in power....0.01% an overwhelming majority [end sarcasm]

UFO's are real-the Government either denies or ignores the evidence.

Golfie> And this pertains to the masonic organization how?!?!?

The infiltration of the Freemasons
and their off shoot groups into high powerful
positions in Government is documented.

Golfie> Whoopie there's that 0.01% throwing it's weight around again...are you looking to try and do what England tried to do by not allowing someone to hold an office due to masonic membership? puleez...


The USA is far behind all industrial countries in services to the citizens.

Golfie> The masonic organization(s) donate well over a million dollars a DAY to charity...again how does government shorfalls turn into blaming the masons?

There is no country that has engaged in more wars(1776 -) then the USA.

Golfie> Umm that's because we're usually asked either by a country or group of countries to assist/protect/defend (Iraq not withstanding) Who does the UN call when they need military might? And how does this relate to the masons?

Americans work more hours per week then any other industrial country.

Golfie> Umm and how does this relate to the masons?

USA education is a disaster.

Golfie> Again...how does this relate to the masons?

The infiltration of the Freemasons
and their off shoot groups into high powerful
positions in Government is documented.

Golfie> Already addressed, see above

The relationship between Freemasons and religion is documented.

Golfie> Umm...Freemasons must believe in a Supreme Being/God/GAOU...so there's a religious tie...Catholic church has come out against the masons...so I wouldn't think that to be a goodthing[tm]

The Freemason are very ancient.

Golfie> So are the mummies/pyramids/solar system/bible/earth/.....the list goes on and on....just don't see your point.,...

Freemason charities go to Freemasons first.

Golfie> Bad bad Freemasons....taking care of your own first....again I don't see how this ties to a masonic world domination theory....

Freemasons call it Sacred Geometry.

Golfie> As Masonic Light has stated in another thread...this is not a masonic concept

Freemasons built/designed a great many major
buildings/roadways world wide.

Golfie> So did alot of non masons....by your own numbers 0.01% of the American population are masons....sooo assuming the same aspect ration 0.01% of all crafts people are masons....that *very* small group must have been very busy.....

Nuclear energy is dependent on geometry.

Golfie> And this is masonic how?

That there are other dimensions is now acknowledged by "science"

Golfie> You're losing me again.....

We have a tendency to stay in the now -
the immediate affect in general concerns us most.

Golfie> Getting way off the beaten path here....


Freemasons collectively are exceedingly wealthy.

Golfie> Umm I know many a mason that will gladly prove you wrong on that one.... to my knowledge they don't write you a milliion dollar check when you join...otherwise the 0.01% you refered to would be closer to teh 99.9%

If you don" think that the Freemasons are the great trouble makers of the world
-then try putting any other organizations name where Freemason is written.

Golfie> Hrmm lets try.... Instead of "Freemasons built/designed a great many major buildings/roadways world wide" we say..."The International Union Of Operating Engineers built/designed a great many major buildings/roadways world wide." Hrmm....sounds more logical to me....

I will put site on line that will go beyond the mere twaddle -
that what is stated above is true -
The documentation will be provided-
It is not for argument if there is a Freemason conspiracy.
Freemasons will not be able to post what they perceive as a defense.

Golfie> Need a valid offense to defend against....



Sorry but I can not see how most of this arguement even remotely relates to the masonic organization.....



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 10:15 PM
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Goldie your right you can't see

Mostly you answer - so what-
plainly life must be hard for you being so lost and confused all the time
I would say it is a result of mason training.
Post like his give you an insight into just how shallow and deceptive these trained monkeys can be



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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First and foremost....I've never stated that I was a member of the masonic organization...and think that it's very presumptuous for you to assume so.

I was just trying to show you that you're pieces of the puzzle (as you put it) just don't fit.

I will not flame you (as you have me and many many others on this board).



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by GLeamer
then try putting any other organizations name where Freemason is written


Some Puzzle Pieces

USA Chrisitians comprise about ?.??% of the population. (probably more than 0.01%)

UFO's are real-the Government either denies or ignores the evidence.

The infiltration of the Christians
and their off shoot groups into high powerful
positions in Government is documented.

The USA is far behind all industrial countries in services to the citizens.
There is no country that has engaged in more wars(1776 -) then the USA.
Americans work more hours per week then any other industrial country.
USA education is a disaster.

The infiltration of the Chrisitians
and their off shoot groups into high powerful
positions in Government is documented.

The relationship between Chrisitians and religion is documented.

The Christians are very ancient.
Christian charities go to Chrisitians first.
Christians call it Sacred Geometry. (I know they don't but neither do Freemasons
)
Christians built/designed a great many major
buildings/roadways world wide.

Nuclear energy is dependent on geometry.

That there are other dimensions is now acknowledged by "science"
We have a tendency to stay in the now -
the immediate affect in general concerns us most.

Christians collectively are exceedingly wealthy.

If you don" think that theChristians are the great trouble makers of the world
-then try putting any other organizations name where Chrisitian is written.


Originally posted by GLeamer
The documentation will be provided-


Should really do this the same time you post, it makes a better argument.


Originally posted by GLeamer
It is not for argument if there is a Freemason conspiracy.


Your right, you have actually convinced me even more so that there is definetly not any proven conspiracy



Originally posted by GLeamer
If a Freemason is enlightened and out of the Freemason prison and can supply information concerning the ideas discussed he will be welcome.


Enlightened is that not a Masonic Term
they do claim to be the enlightened ones do they not
oh! no sorry, that was another piece of propoganda from another post, my apologies.


Originally posted by GLeamer
I do not have the need or want to debate any point with any Freemason.
The very mandates of your society make your input more then suspect.


I am afraid if you want to know the truth, you really need to respect the answers given to you. There is no real debate, you have people involved in the organisation telling you how it is, but you wont listen or believe them. I don't understand why you have bothered posting anything, this is a place for discussion, a source of information, if you have no desire to learn new things, and presume you are right about everything, why bother.



The task ahead is daunting - the Freemasons and their running dogs are deeply entrenched in all human endevors - The furure of the USA will be micro-chipped slaves, unless ACTION is taken to make people aware.


You right, the task is daunting, the Freemasons are entrenched in Charitable causes, donations, relief to others, the b&^%$rds. Cut them down, imprison them, burn them at the stake...


Originally posted by GLeamerWar,War and more war is where Freemasons are most comfortable.


I believe the things most comfortable in this situation is Religion and Politics.


Just a note, I have nothing against Christians, it was merely an example as requested by GLeamer

[edit on 6/1/2005 by Bondi]



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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The mason -christian connection is well established - putting christian in place of freemason works because they are the same people.
The vatican even holds a masonic degree -you know the vatican -
mother of christianity
www.osjhospitaller.com...
Thet are called -Order of St. John of Jerusalem -Knights of Malta-Kights Hospitaller They are the military arm of the Vatican

I am not a follower of any- what the world calls religion.
I am a child of the Great Spirit - all I know comes through this knowledge.

The idea of hating is not a worthy thing - I hate no man
(theres a couple broads that really piss me off tho)lol

Its kinda like having a war to end a war mentality - never has worked.

Seems to me ,that if I had the misfortune to belong to a group that would actually have me (unlikley), and there were stories carried throughout history of this ill advised groups involvement with heinous perfidious acts,
I would be at least be a little circumspect of where I obtained -what the world calls -information-....

Bondi writes...
Your right, you have actually convinced me even more so that there is definetly not any proven conspiracy -.....

I am begining to think that this is some kind of masons double think.
That the programing masons go through produces these kind of words...
" definety not proven" ...
unless you see something yourself there is no proof
and if you see it you need no proof.
You can arrive at "a proof" through investigation and evidence(sometimes lack of).

There are no proofs until there is a theory

Pythagoras..... thought that things are numbers ... and that the whole cosmos is a scale and a number

Stuff about Sacred Geometry
www.vortexmaps.com...

www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk... html

This is a Christian guy and he tells a lot about the Craft -
www.geocities.com...

Bondi writes...""I am afraid if you want to know the truth, you really need to respect the answers given to you"

..... I respect facts,truth,motherhood,-but not "answers given"

Bondi writes"You right, the task is daunting, the Freemasons are entrenched in Charitable causes"....

Mason charities are first for Masons - they have started these "charities"and "foundations" for their own ends.
The general public recieves the "blowback" - and it's tax deductable

Finally Bondi writes ( mason style)....

'Just a note, I have nothing against Christians, it was merely an example as requested by GLeamer '

I requested nothing and have no idea what he is saying.
The more a reader sees how masons approach an issue
the surer you can be that if a mason told you something you better check it out

Some sites for the seeker

watch.pair.com...

watch.pair.com...



educate-yourself.org...

www.sianews.com...

BE WARNED none are mason approved



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by GLeamer


Mason charities are first for Masons - they have started these "charities"and "foundations" for their own ends.


Because the overwhelming majority of Masonic charity goes to the medical treatment of children, the above claim is absurd. Furthermore, lest our friend claim it goes to Masons' children, this claim is likewise easily refuted. For example, children are referred to Shriners and Scottish Rite hospitals on the recommendations of their physicians, not the fraternity.

acnv.viawest.net...



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by GLeamer
This is a Christian guy and he tells a lot about the Craft -
www.geocities.com...


You know I clicked on this link expecting misonformation and sure enough...


You cannot apply to join your local lodge but must be invited by someone already in the Society


That's odd, Axeman, myself, ML, and many others here and around the world did just that I'm sure. But then again most non-Masons know more than Masons I'm noticing. Silly me...

He then references the classic hoax...


There is some question about whether Pike actually taught that Lucifer is God or whether this is a forgery. We have noted the quotation below and even if proved to be a forgery there are enough other references to conclude that this is what he believed and implied.

To you, Soveneign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren... The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Lucifer in doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (the Christian God) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man... yes, Lucifer is god, and unfortunately Adonay is also god... There is no light without shade... for the absolute can only exist as two gods... This the doctrine of Satanism is heresy and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay, but Lucifer, God of Light and God of good is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil.


and he goes on at the bottom of the page...


In a book written in 1889 by Albert Pike, the Grand Supreme Pontiff of Freemasonry, he pinpoints its ultimate principle:


"The true and philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer,
the equal of Adonai, but Lucifer,
the god of light and of good,
is struggling for humanity"

Another pronouncement by the same Masonic supreme dated 14 February 1889, addressed to the 23 Supreme Councils of the world, within a cloud of secrecy, is historically recorded:


"To you sovereign Grand Inspector Generals, we say this. You may repeat the following statement to the 32nd, 31st and 30th degree Masons only. The Masonic Religion should be by all of us initiates of the higher degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine, for if Lucifer were not god, would Adonai (My Lord), God of the Christians bother to spread harmful statements against him. Yes, Lucifer is god.


This indeed has been proven to be a hoax...

www.templarhistory.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.free-definition.com...

And another link you referenced...


www.sianews.com...

Lets go back a few years to 1871 and read a letter written to a man in Italy, named Mazzini, from a general in the Confederate Army from Little Rock, Arkansas named, Albert Pike. On August 15, 1871 (Feast of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary) Albert Pike wrote:

"We shall unleash the Nihilists and the Atheists and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which, in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, the origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, forced to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will form direction and leadership, anxious for an ideal, but without knowledge where to render its adoration, will receive the pure light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out into public view, a manifestation which will result from a general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."...


I would like to redirect you here...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

and here...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
here a quote from ML on the topic...


Several of these “bogus documents” continue to surface on anti-Masonic websites. For example, the anti-Masonic hate propaganda site called “Freemasonry Watch” continues to display a fake letter supposedly written by American Mason Albert Pike to the famous Italian patriot Giuseppe Mazzini. The FW website claimed the letter was authentic, and was in the British Museum. Upon investigation, it was found that no such letter has been in the British Museum, and the curators declared it was a hoax.
Therefore, we see a web of deception woven not by the fraternity, but by those who are opposed to it.


Something with this much false info cannot be credible. I'm seeing a pattern with alot of your refernces.



[edit on 1/6/2005 by cotwom

[edit on 1/6/2005 by cotwom]



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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I am a child of the Great Spirit - all I know comes through this knowledge.

JMHO of course but if that were true i think you would have been drowned at birth, but being as you were not you might want to check your connection speed.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 02:01 PM
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GLeamer im not a mason and i have read for myself all the stuff you have posted and realized it was all crap just by reading more into certain subjects



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 02:17 PM
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So who is the leader of the Freemasons?
Where comes this 'overwhelming" funds- do you have access to the numbers?
Where are they?
Who is the National treasurer?
Is there a world treasurer?
What are the fees for climing up the ladder?
Are there dues? and monthly dues?
Who does your accountong? Who does national counting?
Do you pay to the world network too?
Do all rites share equally?
Where can I find this information or is it all kinda hush hush?
Some of that secret stuff

stalking wolf - the missing piece to the freemasons complete idiot picture



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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This aint my thread but I am just going to drop a line telling yall to play nice now and stop the name calling



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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So who is the leader of the Freemasons?
There is no "leader of the Freemasons"
freemasonry.bcy.ca...

Each lodge is warranted by a regional Grand Lodge. There are over 200 recognized masonic jurisdictions around the world and no central authority, although all can trace their history from either the United Grand Lodge of England (or its precurser Grand Lodges), the Grand Lodge of Scotland or the Grand Lodge of Ireland. They operate under a system of mutual recognition, working within a loose set of Landmarks defining recognized Freemasonry.

and freemasonry.bcy.ca...

Where comes this 'overwhelming" funds- do you have access to the numbers?
My lodge holds weekly bingo night on fridays that is open to the general public, and money goes to charities such as the local Shriners Hospital here in Portland, Oregon. I unfortuatlely don't have access to the numbers.

Where are they?
Where are what?

Who is the National treasurer?
There isn't a "National Treasurer"

Is there a world treasurer?
No there is not a "world treasurer"

What are the fees for climing up the ladder?
For Blue Lodge, I'm paying $35 a year, for all three degrees
For Scottish rite, there are Yearly dues of about +/-$100 depending on location
to obtain collectively all degrees.
I don't know about york rite.

Are there dues? and monthly dues?
explained above

Who does your accountong? Who does national counting?
The local lodge treasurer and local Grand Lodge.
There is no National Accontant if that's what you mean,

Do you pay to the world network too?
What world network? I'm going to guess... no.

Do all rites share equally?
Share what?

Where can I find this information or is it all kinda hush hush?
Call a local grand lodge, regular lodge, and ask, or
bessel.org...
freemasonry.bcy.ca...
Two great resources.

[edit on 1/6/2005 by cotwom]



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree


The only actual Masonic reference I found that would cause such hate mongering
could be that there are references to the "original" Knights Templar protecting the modern day blood lines of Jesus, therefore disproving his death by crucifixion.
This of course being the whole foundation of the church.


Actually, they protect the Rose Line(Jesus' Bloodline) and truth about the Holy Grail. And they will release the truth when they think the time is right.
And, that does not disprove his death by crucifixion. Before he was crucified, he had gotten Mary Magdalene pregnant and then she fled Israel to Northern France.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by GLeamer
Some Puzzle Pieces

USA Freemasons comprise about 0.01% of the population.

UFO's are real-the Government either denies or ignores the evidence.

The infiltration of the Freemasons
and their off shoot groups into high powerful
positions in Government is documented.

The USA is far behind all industrial countries in services to the citizens.
There is no country that has engaged in more wars(1776 -) then the USA.
Americans work more hours per week then any other industrial country.
USA education is a disaster.

The infiltration of the Freemasons
and their off shoot groups into high powerful
positions in Government is documented.

The relationship between Freemasons and religion is documented.

The Freemason are very ancient.
Freemason charities go to Freemasons first.
Freemasons call it Sacred Geometry.
Freemasons built/designed a great many major
buildings/roadways world wide.

Nuclear energy is dependent on geometry.

That there are other dimensions is now acknowledged by "science"
We have a tendency to stay in the now -
the immediate affect in general concerns us most.

Freemasons collectively are exceedingly wealthy.

If you don" think that the Freemasons are the great trouble makers of the world
-then try putting any other organizations name where Freemason is written.
I will put site on line that will go beyond the mere twaddle -
that what is stated above is true -
The documentation will be provided-
It is not for argument if there is a Freemason conspiracy.
Freemasons will not be able to post what they perceive as a defense.
If a Freemason is enlightened and out of the Freemason prison and can supply information concerning the ideas discussed he will be welcome.
Only anecdotal inclusion of any Freemason book

I do not have the need or want to debate any point with any Freemason.
The very mandates of your society make your input more then suspect.

The task ahead is daunting - the Freemasons and their running dogs are deeply entrenched in all human endevors - The furure of the USA will be micro-chipped slaves, unless ACTION is taken to make people aware.

War,War and more war is where Freemasons are most comfortable.


...No.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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how are random facts of re-written history proof that freemasons control the world? and the temple being 13 blocks north of the White House means what? In Harmony, PA there is a Freemason lodge 1 block west of an elementry school. Is that more proof for your bogous view of world history? Also on the topic of the KKK anyone with a basic understanding of the American Civil War knows that Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest started the group as a gathering place for Confederate Veterans of the war. Pick up a history book once in a while.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by GLeamer
So who is the leader of the Freemasons?


The Grand Lodge composes the government of Freemasonry. In the United States, there are 51 Grand Lodges, one for each state and the District of Columbia. Each Canadian Province has a Grand Lodge, and each British nation has one. They govern the Craft within their jurisdictions.
Grand Lodge is an elected representive body that in most jurisdictions consists of three representatives from each individual Lodge in the jurisdiction. Each year, Grand Lodge elects Grand Lodge officers, usually to one year terms. The Presiding Officer of Grand Lodge is the Grand Master, who serves as President of the Fraternity in his jurisdiction, and is elected with other Grand Lodge Officers at Annual Grand Lodge sessions.


Where comes this 'overwhelming" funds- do you have access to the numbers?


The funds come primarily from donations by members, but also from non-members via fundraisers. Most Grand Lodges keep a Charity account, and a fraction of each Mason's annual dues payment is applied to this account, to be disbursed as needed. Each Grand Lodge publishes its financial statements annually, and are independently audited in accordance with federal law.


Where are they?


Charity funds are special funds in the accounts of the various Grand Bodies, and are disbursed under direction of the various Charity Committees.


Who is the National treasurer?


There are no national Masonic officers in the USA, Canada, and UK. Each independent Grand Lodge elects a Grand Treasurer. The names of the Grand Treasurers can be found by visiting the particular Grand Lodge's website.


Is there a world treasurer?


No.


What are the fees for climing up the ladder?


Each individual Lodge sets its own amount for fees and dues in its By-Laws. Out of all civic and fraternal organizations, Freemasonry in general is the least expensive to join; often, Lodges charge less than $35 per year in dues.


Are there dues? and monthly dues?


Dues are paid annually, and vary from Lodge to Lodge.


Who does your accountong? Who does national counting?


There are no national Grand Lodges, and therefore, no national accountants. Each Grand Lodge hires an accounting firm to keep its books, which are audited and published annually.


Do you pay to the world network too?


Huh?


Do all rites share equally?


Each Rite generally has its own organized charity. When it is claimed that Masonic charities provide millions of dollars per day, this refers to all Masonic societies combined. They do not provide equal amounts of funds; for example, the Scottish Rite contributes more money than Masonic Knights Templar due to the fact that Scottish Rite has more members.


Where can I find this information or is it all kinda hush hush?


Try the library. Grand Lodge financial statements are published annually in its transactions.



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