NYC World Premiere. Firefighters, Architects & Engineers: Expose the Myths of 9/11

REMINDER: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS

originally posted by: Majic
To make that possible, it is IMPERATIVE that all members participating in 9/11 discussions remember to stay focused on the topics and avoid resorting to ad hominem attacks of any kind against anyone. Any attempts to do so or otherwise indulge in trolling are subject to decisive action, and given that organized trolling has gotten bad enough to temporarily shut down the forum before, we have little patience for it.

In particular, the practice of posting accusations of any kind against any member (e.g., "shills", et al) is the modus operandi of 9/11 trolls (and trolls in general), explicitly prohibited and may result in immediate suspension of posting privileges or account termination.

Comments on the topic are always welcome, but personal commentary of any kind is not, especially any sort of insinuations along the lines described above, and we are not kidding about that.

Let's please be mindful of the importance of respecting the rights of all members to share their points of view without being attacked for doing so, and avoid the need for further staff action.

Thanks.

a reply to: skyeagle409

How about explaining to us, the process of how stored iron can generate temperatures high enough to start fires.

That would be off topc.
I guess my conclusions have been misinterpreted.
I'll resign from anything further.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: randyvs

*** Moderated Quote Removed **

How about explaining to us, the process of how stored iron can generate temperatures high enough to start fires, even if buried beneath the ground.

We still haven't cleared the issue about why the impact is on ground level if its 50 feet high

The September 11 Financial Heist: “Follow The 9/11 Money Trail”
source: www.globalresearch.ca...

a reply to: skyeagle409

"...there were about ten explosions...At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit."
That's can only be the twin towers, right?
It is pretty clear from video, that both towers above the strike line fell over and disintegrated. The North tower even more an extreme disengagement than the the South tower, but tip over they did. That makes either collapse much less dynamic than simply stuff from above falling onto stuff below, but much more dynamic laterally, but on a diminishing scale. Above the strike line, the centre of gravity was never uniform once the collapse was initiated. That some kind of initiation is something pretty much agreed with by the NIST, given they didn't even address that. The trouble is, could something from far below have also had a helping hand and just helped knock the block off the top of the towers?

As for explosion, this is the sound of an explosion
A double ignition same as I have heard in a city.
The video is well known, if you want to debunk okay I don't care, but make sure you do it well...names dates and places.

a reply to: smurfy

I bet that explosion was from WTC 7 and was at the time Barry Jennings was in WTC 7, he claimed the WTC 1&2 were still standing when the floors exploded right under him.

Very simple question. Why have no decent pictures or videos ever been released of Flight 77 BEFORE it hit the Pentagon ? I cant believe that poor quality official video is the only one to capture anything.
What about CCTV cameras in hotels, offices, gas stations etc etc ? Did not a single civilian camera capture anything or have they all deleted or seized ?

Surely it would clear up this whole plane vs missile argument once and for all ?

a reply to: smurfy

Where is the evidence that explosive-like sound is that from an explosive and not from a gas line? I might add that the sound is not indicative of a demolition charge. Remember, those who had said they heard explosions, later determined that sound of explosions they heard had nothing to do with explosives. Demo explosions are detonating in rapid session and that is not the case in this instance.

You will also notice that no one is running for cover and that no building is collapsing.

a reply to: gladtobehere


Get em A&E !

NIST needs to be exposed for its lies and deception in the main stream. But it will never happen. I often wonder how much NIST got paid off to shill the official lie ?

Bet its a hefty sum

a reply to: skyeagle409

Remember, those who had said they heard explosions, later determined that sound of explosions they heard had nothing to do with explosives. Demo explosions are detonating in rapid session and that is not the case in this instance.

Who are "those" you speak of ? Can you provide proof ?

To my knowledge nobody including NYFD has retracted that they claim they heard explosions.

Again can you provide a link or source to back this up ?

a reply to: DarthFazer

To my knowledge nobody including NYFD has retracted that they claim they heard explosions.

They heard explosive-like sounds, but let's take a look at what those sounds werel.

Louie Cacchioli, 51, is a firefighter assigned to Engine 47 in Harlem.

Cacchioli was upset that People Magazine misquoted him, saying "there were bombs" in the building when all he said was he heard "what sounded like bombs" without having definitive proof bombs were actually detonated.

www.arcticbea...9-Jul-2005.html...

Jay Swithers

An ambulance pulled up which was very clean, S0 I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.

Dominick Derubbio

t was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion, but I guess it was just the floors starting to pancake one on top of the other.

FDNY Batallion Chief Brian Dixon

I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out. Then I guess in some sense of time we looked at it and realized, no, actually it just collapsed. That ís what blew out the windows, not that there was an explosion there but that windows blew out.

Craig Carlsen said that he and other firefighters “heard explosions coming from the south tower

...there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.

a reply to: skyeagle409

To my knowledge nobody including NYFD has retracted that they claim they heard explosions.

They heard explosive-like sounds, but let's take a look at what those sounds werel.

Yes lets take a good look at what all these people heard.

500 first responders explosions or bombs/911

NY Times & Victims Family FOIA Request making Suppressed Firemen Statements public:

A rich vein of city records from Sept. 11, including more than 12,000 pages of oral histories rendered in the voices

of 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians, was made public 8/12/05.

The city has announced that it will also release today a written log of calls to the 911 system, many from trapped

office workers, as well as tapes of fire dispatchers. Other records, including tapes of 911 operators, are being assembled

and are not yet ready for release, city officials said.

The New York Times sought the records under the freedom of information law in February 2002, but the Bloomberg

administration refused to make them public and the newspaper sued the city. Earlier this year, the Court of Appeals,

New York's highest court, ordered the city to release most, but not all, of the records.


Over the last three and half years, The Times has obtained some of these records through unofficial channels, and they

can be found on the Web at www.nytimes.com/sept11

These include the dispatch tapes, nearly 100 of the Fire Department oral histories, and a log of calls to Emergency Medical

Service dispatchers that were channeled through the 911 system.

forum.davidicke.com...

Yes these were posted in the NYT. Please stop with all the fallacies that no one heard explosions.

Read the evidence.

Do we really need to be discussing wether explosions were heard or not when it has already been established that the buildings could not have collapsed without demolition.

Let him starve.

a reply to: skyeagle409

Numerous witnesses to the collapse of the south WTC tower think it resembles a demolition using explosives. Some initially believe this is what is occurring:
bullet Reporter John Bussey watches the collapse from the Wall Street Journal’s offices across the street from the WTC. He says, “I… looked up out of the office window to see what seemed like perfectly synchronized explosions coming from each floor, spewing glass and metal outward. One after the other, from top to bottom, with a fraction of a second between, the floors blew to pieces.” [WALL STREET JOURNAL, 9/12/2001]
bullet Deputy Fire Commissioner Thomas Fitzpatrick: “I remember seeing, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building.… Then the building started to come down. My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 10/1/2001]
bullet Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory: “I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista… he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him… I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.… You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That’s what I thought I saw.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 10/3/2001]
bullet Firefighter Richard Banaciski: “It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 12/6/2001]
bullet Firefighter Joseph Meola: “As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops.… You thought it was just blowing out.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 12/11/2001]
bullet Fire Chief Frank Cruthers: “[T]here was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 10/31/2001]
bullet Battalion Chief Brian Dixon: “I was watching the fire… the lowest floor of fire in the South Tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see—I could see two sides of it and the other side—it just looked like that floor blew out.… I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 10/25/2001]
bullet Firefighter Timothy Burke: “Then the building popped, lower than the fire… I was going oh, my god, there is secondary device because the way the building popped I thought it was an explosion.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 1/22/2002]
bullet Firefighter Edward Cachia: “It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 12/6/2001]
bullet Firefighter Kenneth Rogers: “[T]here was an explosion in the South Tower… I kept watching. Floor after floor after floor. One floor under another after another and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 12/10/2001]
bullet Reporter Beth Fertig: “The tower went down perfectly straight, as if a demolition crew had imploded it. I wondered if it was being brought down deliberately.” [GILBERT ET AL., 2002, PP. 78]
bullet Paramedic Daniel Rivera: “[D]o you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear ‘Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop’? That’s exactly what—because I thought it was that.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 10/10/2001]
bullet Battalion Chief Dominick DeRubbio: “It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 10/12/2001]
bullet The Guardian will report that police on the scene said the collapse “looked almost like a ‘planned implosion’ designed to catch bystanders watching from the street.” [GUARDIAN, 9/12/2001]

You have named a few in a sea of many that witnessed explosions. It's funny though that your witnesses changed their testimonies a few years later. Or maybe not funny when you have the FBI and CIA threatening them and their families!

Barry Jennings was also threatened to keep his mouth shut and or change his story before he died mysteriously. His testimony of WTC-7 is very revealing of EXPLOSIONS in WTC-7 before it collapsed. Especially of the Bodies found in the building after the explosions and before the collapse.

Lobby Is 'Total Ruins' - According to Jennings, when he gets down to the lobby, he is astonished to find it totally ruined. In a 2007 interview he will recall: “[W]hen I came in there, the lobby had nice escalators. It was a huge lobby.” But reaching it again, he asks the firefighter who is escorting him, “Where are we?” and the firefighter answers, “This was the lobby.” Jennings finds this “unbelievable,” and says, “You gotta be kidding me.” He will describe the lobby as being “total ruins.” 'Stepping over People' - Furthermore, Jennings steps over what may be dead bodies in the lobby. He will say: “[T]he firefighter that took us down kept saying, ‘Do not look down,’ and I kept saying, ‘Why is that?’ [He said,] ‘Do not look down.’ And, stepping over people. And you know you could feel when you’re stepping over people.”

Why would there be dead bodies in a lobby before a collapse? Well because these people were killed in explosions that weakened the building before it was 'pulled'.

NIST denied this but Barry Jennings and the Firefighter testimonies corroborated each other. Michael Hess who was in WTC-7 with Jennings changed his story since then and not surprisingly is still alive. Barry Jennings stuck to his story and mysteriously died in 2008.

In WTC-1, 2 and 7 witnesses corroborated explosions. Even the Media corroborated Explosions. Some of the witnesses changed their stories a few years down the line. Why they did that you can only speculate for the reason. Threats to their job, lives and families is probably the reason. But again that is just speculation.

But with a high profile event like 9/11 in where lots and lots of witnesses said the opposite of the Official Story then you can see a pattern emerging as to what really happened. But to get that information out to the masses is impossible. The nasty people that orchestrated 9/11 own and run the Mainstream Media. And when they control everything you see and hear then they control the information that they want you to believe!

I don't believe their BS. I see too many witnesses saying the same thing. Explosions. Too many that you cannot discount the likelihood of Controlled Demolition on 9/11.

originally posted by: devilhunter
What about CCTV cameras in hotels, offices, gas stations etc etc ?

Why would they be pointing at the sky, and why do you think they would capture a airliner?

up this whole plane vs missile argument once and for all ?

That "argument" has already been cleared up with the DNA from the passengers on flight 77 being found at the Pentagon, luggage from flight 77 being found at the Pentagon, and the 757 undercarriage,wheels,engines, fuselage parts etc. being found at the Pentagon.

A very big OOPS to the Official Story!!

As hard as this might be to believe a group of foreign
art students NOT U.S. Citizens managed to get temporary construction ID for the entire WTC complex.
While there,they removed a window and extended a wooden balcony while their "sponsor" was in the Millenium Hotel taking photos, he also hired a helicopter to document the event.
And only a retired flight attendant sees something fishy?

Methodical Deception

A lot of damning information to the OS.

A thread discussing this on ATS

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: DarthFazer
a reply to: skyeagle409

Remember, those who had said they heard explosions, later determined that sound of explosions they heard had nothing to do with explosives. Demo explosions are detonating in rapid session and that is not the case in this instance.

Who are "those" you speak of ? Can you provide proof ?

To my knowledge nobody including NYFD has retracted that they claim they heard explosions.

Again can you provide a link or source to back this up ?

Implying what, exactly? No explosions occurred that day other than demolition chargers to bring down buildings?

Love to see your proof of that…

a reply to: Nova937

M post in that thread…

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: skyeagle409

Why did the BBC report WTC collapsing before it did ?