NYC World Premiere. Firefighters, Architects & Engineers: Expose the Myths of 9/11

a reply to: intrptr

But you didn't.

Did you not get what I just posted? The claim I supposedly made was in fact a question, the other one I can't back up because I can't prove a negative, but I sure didn't see a report from an official investigation of the rubble. Did you?

a reply to: skyeagle409

Here is a photo of the south wall of WTC7 where massive impact damage was observed,

So where is it in the pic?

originally posted by: RogueWave
a reply to: intrptr

The claim I supposedly made was in fact a question…

No it wasn't. Your claim was very specific…

The rubble was hauled away and shipped overseas without it being investigated.

I asked you for evidence to back your claim…

Point out any claim that I should back up, and I will.

Two pages of dodging now…

Whatever…

intrptr out

a reply to: intrptr

I asked you for evidence to back your claim…

See, now you are just being dishonest. You didn't ask me about this before.

Two pages of dodging now…

Again, this is the first time you brought this up. Why would I need to dodge something that is evident?

911research.wtc7.net...

Baosteel Group, the nation's largest steel firm, has purchased 50,000 tons of the scrap steel from "Ground Zero," the ruins of the September 11 terrorist attack, at no more than US$120 each ton, according to yesterday's Beijing Youth Daily.

And again, did you see a report from an official investigation of the rubble?

a reply to: RogueWave

Then I would have to refer you to the educated guess made by NIST. However, that will not change the fact that the FDNY fully expected WTC 7 to collapse due to the massive damage it suffered when WTC 1 hit it. Back to you to move the goalposts.

a reply to: cardinalfan0596

Back to you to move the goalposts.

I didn't move any goal posts. I clearly asked for a source from an official investigation. You moved the posts by giving me an eyewitness account.

Then I would have to refer you to the educated guess made by NIST.

Can you link me to the work they did on WTC7?

a reply to: cardinalfan0596

Thanks for providing me with testimonials , Would you happen to have any photos or evidence that shows the bulge in question or perhaps the building slumping .

In my minds eye this picture keeps popping into my head

Oklahoma building still standing after sustaining serious damage , clearly WTC7 didn't suffer as much cosmetic damage yet it still fell. of course WTC7 was much bigger and built differently.

Also should I discount the counter claims made by other fire fighters who don't except the OS ?

Really I am open minded about 9/11 but it seems that people who accept the OS really struggle to prove points when the truth movement present simple answers .

Make me a believer , because I am still very skeptical .

a reply to: RogueWave

BS. There has been no official investigation into the rubble and only a very small fraction was preserved.

Let's take a look to see if you are right.

9/11 WTC Investigation

Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.

www.webcitation.org...

As you can see, WTC structural steel was examined.

a reply to: skyeagle409

As you can see, WTC structural steel was examined.

Can you post the official report containing this research of 236 pieces.

Can you post the offiicial report on the research of the rubble of WTC7 specifically?

a reply to: skyeagle409

Yes, they looked at the steel and put it in their report. Heck I could write a report saying I saw a cat in the road, doesn't mean I fully examined the cat. However when NIST was asked if they looked for explosives they said "No, we did not". You're telling me that after watching two massive still structures blow into dust, you wouldn't look for explosives!!?

a reply to: skyeagle409

Another misleading argument. The question was why didn't NIST "consider" explosives in your link. But here's a better one from NIST which is more to the point.

22. Did the NIST investigation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues?
NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.

www.nist.gov...

So why didn't they test? Because they said thermite is too slow. Rubbish. Another debunked myth years ago.

a reply to: Kapusta

The Urban Movers mural of planes exploding into the buildings. Proven fact. If that isn't the piece de ressistence, then I don't know what is

at 5:40

originally posted by: Kapusta


Right when it was clearly standing in the background of the reporter , thats a big screw up .

Speaking of big screw ups, take a look at this photo. It's from the A&E911T website. It was the poster voted no 1 by its members for an ad campaign.




Show us how much smarter Truthers are than BBC reporters and tell us what is wrong with this photo.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: Kapusta

The Urban Movers mural of planes exploding into the buildings. Proven fact. If that isn't the piece de ressistence, then I don't know what is

at 5:40

That is a photo shopped image.


Here is the original image without the mural.



The photo was taken from this add on ebay.



A reverse phone number search gave me this address. You can see the van sitting there in google maps.



Google street view of the van.



You are posting a lie told to you by another truther.

a reply to: RogueWave

Can you post the official report containing this research of 236 pieces.

Can you post the offiicial report on the research of the rubble of WTC7 specifically?

Let's start here.

WTC Steel Data Collection

As of March 15, 2002, a total of 131 engineer visits had been made to these yards on 57 separate days. An engineer visit typically ranged from a few hours to an entire day at a salvage yard. The duration of the visits, number of visits per yard, and the dates the yards were visited varied, depending on the volume of steel being processed, the potential significance of the steel pieces being found, salvage yard activities, weather, and other factors.

Sixty-two engineer trips were made to Jersey City, 38 to Keasbey, 15 to Fresh Kills, and 16 to Newark. Three trips made in October included several ASCE engineers. Eleven engineer trips were made in November, 41 in December, 43 in January, 28 in February, and 5 through March 15, 2002.

D.3 Methods

Engineers identified steel members that would be considered for evaluation or tests relative to the fire and structural response of the WTC buildings. Pieces that were measured and determined to be significant were marked to be saved, and arrangements were made to have them moved to a safe location where they would not be processed (cut up and shipped). Some pieces were not saved, but samples, called coupons, were cut from them and saved for future studies.

D.3.1 Identifying and Saving Pieces

As shown in Figure D-4, the engineers searched through unsorted piles of steel for pieces from WTC 1 and WTC 2 impact areas and from WTC 5 and WTC 7. They also checked for pieces of steel exposed to fire. Specifically, the engineers looked for the following types of steel members:

Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were exposed to fire and/or impacted by the aircraft.

Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were above the impact zone. Badly burnt pieces from WTC 7.

Connections from WTC 1, 2, and 7, such as seat connections, single shear plates, and column splices. Bolts from WTC 1, 2, and 7 that were exposed to fire, fractured, and/or that appeared undamaged. Floor trusses, including stiffeners, seats, and other components.

Any piece that, in the engineer's professional opinion, might be useful for evaluation. When there was any doubt about a particular piece, the piece was kept while more information was gathered. A conservative approach was taken to avoid having important pieces processed in salvage yard operations.

The engineers were able to identify many pieces by their markings. Each piece of steel was originally stenciled in white or yellow with information telling where it came from and where it was going. A sample of the markings can be seen in Figure D-5.

Figure D-5: Stenciled markings on WTC 2 perimeter column from floors 68-71


Figure D-6: WTC7 Steel pieces marked "SAVE."


Figure D-7: Engineers measuring and recording steel piece dimensions

Figure D-14: WTC 7 W14 column tree with beams attached to two floors

Figure D-16: Engineer inspecting fire damage of perimeter column tree from WTC 1 or WTC 2


Additional markings (and duplicates of stenciled markings) may sometimes be found stamped into the steel pieces. These stamped markings are about 3/4 inch tall.

In the absence of markings, member size is the quickest and easiest means for the engineers to establish an approximate original location for a piece. For example, the spandrel plates used in the column-to-column connections in the perimeters of WTC 1 and WTC 2 reportedly ranged in thickness from about 1-1/2 inches at the lower levels to as little as 3/8 inch at the upper levels.

The lighter perimeter columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 appear to have used column-to-column connections with 4 bolts, whereas larger members presumably from lower floors used six-bolt column-to-column connections. Core column sizes vary, with some heavier sections at the lower floors having plates 4 inches thick or greater.

After a steel piece was identified for further study, it was set aside. As shown in Figure D-6, each piece was marked with spray paint, labeled "SAVE" and a piece number, such as "C-68." The engineers also advised site personnel of the location of these pieces so they would not be processed as scrap.

D.3.2 Documenting Pieces

To document the identified steel pieces of interest, the engineers measured their dimensions. They also drew sketches, and took photographs and videos of the pieces.

The steel member dimensions helped to determine the approximate building location of a piece prior to the disaster. The engineers measured and recorded dimensions using metal tape rules, vernier calipers, or other measuring devices. See Figures D-7 through D-9.

Additional markings (and duplicates of stenciled markings) may sometimes be found stamped into the steel pieces. These stamped markings are about 3/4 inch tall.

In the absence of markings, member size is the quickest and easiest means for the engineers to establish an approximate original location for a piece. For example, the spandrel plates used in the column-to-column connections in the perimeters of WTC 1 and WTC 2 reportedly ranged in thickness from about 1-1/2 inches at the lower levels to as little as 3/8 inch at the upper levels.

The lighter perimeter columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 appear to have used column-to-column connections with 4 bolts, whereas larger members presumably from lower floors used six-bolt column-to-column connections. Core column sizes vary, with some heavier sections at the lower floors having plates 4 inches thick or greater.

After a steel piece was identified for further study, it was set aside. As shown in Figure D-6, each piece was marked with spray paint, labeled "SAVE" and a piece number, such as "C-68." The engineers also advised site personnel of the location of these pieces so they would not be processed as scrap.

D.3.2 Documenting Pieces

To document the identified steel pieces of interest, the engineers measured their dimensions. They also drew sketches, and took photographs and videos of the pieces.

The steel member dimensions helped to determine the approximate building location of a piece prior to the disaster. The engineers measured and recorded dimensions using metal tape rules, vernier calipers, or other measuring devices. See Figures D-7 through D-9.

911research.wtc7.net...

a reply to: waypastvne

No, the pic in the clip is an artist's rendition. It even says so in the clip itself.

Here's a source:
wikispooks.com...

Mural Van
One of the more bizarre events of the day came in the form of a mysterious white van parked a few blocks away from the twin towers on 6th and King Street, that had a mural painted on the side that depicted a jetliner crashing into the twin towers and exploding.
This police audio transmission indicates that the two suspects in the van started to run away when the van was stopped and were apprehended shortly thereafter in some sort of struggle. The police recording also indicates that the mural van subjext to a controlled explosion following detainment of the two suspects.
Video - 911 Mural Van NYPD Recording
Further corroboration of this incident came in the form of a reference in the February 2006 Norman Y. Mineta International Institute for Surface Transportation Policy Studies (MTI) report entitled: “Saving City Lifelines: Lessons Learned in the 9-11 Terrorist Attacks”. The relevant quote is as follows:
“There were continuing moments of alarm. A panel truck with a painting of a plane flying into the World Trade Center was stopped near the temporary command post. It proved to be rented to a group of ethnic Middle Eastern people who did not speak English. Fearing that it might be a truck bomb, the NYPD immediately evacuated the area, called out the bomb squad, and detained the occupants until a thorough search was made. The vehicle was found to be an innocent delivery truck.”

And I provided the actual audio of the police describing the van.

Now what?

a reply to: FlySolo

The vehicle was found to be an innocent delivery truck.