Why Belarus Is About To Get Interesting

originally posted by: Mastronaut
Maiden was surely fomented by west and you are simply spreading propaganda if you think that Crimea must be an example for other countries to be scared of Russian invasion.
If there weren't pressures from the west, Ukraine will be considered friendly from Russia and there would be no threat to their military assets, or you think that Crimea is about geographic ego?

Maidan Snipers Trained in Poland

I guess it is not because the US failed, in a comparable geo-strategic context, to invade the bay of the pigs that they should be angry because the Russians pacified Crimea in 48 hours.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Maidan Snipers Trained in Poland

According to your Fascist leader, Janusz Korwin-Mikke.



Source

Why do you love this guy so much? (And please don't pretend you don't know he's a Crypto-Nazi.)

I guess it is not because the US failed, in a comparable geo-strategic context, to invade the bay of the pigs that they should be angry because the Russians pacified Crimea in 48 hours.

There is absolutely no comparison between the two situations. All you are doing is making a childish attempt to make America feel bad.

a reply to: DJW001

I just happen to prefer embarrassing statements over hypocrisy.
There is indeed a major difference between the bay of the pigs and Crimea : the failed intervention only reinforced the patriotic/anti-American feeling among the Cuban population while in Crimea, the population was happy to be back under the Russian umbrella rather than the Ukrainian one.
There are pro-western Ukrainians and pro-Russian Ukrainians, the problem imo is that there is no pro-Ukrainian Ukrainian, seeking what's best for their country atm : peace.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

I just happen to prefer embarrassing statements over hypocrisy.
There is indeed a major difference between the bay of the pigs and Crimea : the failed intervention only reinforced the patriotic/anti-American feeling among the Cuban population while in Crimea, the population was happy to be back under the Russian umbrella rather than the Ukrainian one.
There are pro-western Ukrainians and pro-Russian Ukrainians, the problem imo is that there is no pro-Ukrainian Ukrainian, seeking what's best for their country atm : peace.

In what way are they similar? The United States armed a group of refugees in an attempt to stage counter-revolution, which failed. Are you now claiming that Russia armed refugees in an attempt to stage a counter-revolution in Ukraine? If so, all they got out of it was an exclave in need of financial support and utter chaos on their border. Does that sound like a success to you?

a reply to: Mastronaut

If there weren't pressures from the west, Ukraine will be considered friendly from Russia and there would be no threat to their military assets, or you think that Crimea is about geographic ego?

Unlike the pressure from Russia that kept the Ukrainian government from signing the EU agreement.

SO let me ask you something...

Why is it so hard to understand Ukraine want's to move forward as Putin is trying to take RUssia backwards?

There was no threat in the first place, in fact Russia had their Crimean base leased to them until 2042.

And the fact that Putin planned to annex Crimea weeks before the vote in Crimea shows it was about geographical ego, and not the people he supposedly decided to help.

"For Your Freedom And Ours"

Has someone handed them the Patriot Act so they know what western freedom represents. I don't side for Russia as they have their own problems to fix, but one is not better than the other, both are corrupt to the bone.

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Xcathdra

You forgot to mention that Brazil's government bonds are now rated
"junk":

www.economist.com...

With partners like this, Russia doesn't stand a chance of becoming a global player again.

Is china not setting up its own ratings agency? Won't this make ratings from outside of the bricks nations irrelevant?

Nope, that's kind of like having a bank tell you you can't have a mortgage because you won't pay it back, and handing him a note from your mother promising to pay. You can't just set up your own ratings agency and expect the world of international finance to take you seriously.

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: DJW001

I just happen to prefer embarrassing statements over hypocrisy.

If hypocrisy is your one and only criteria for assessing every international story then you may as well give up now. How far back through history do you want to go to find an innocent party not guilty of any hypocrisy?

I know you might not understand this concept, but in democratic nations we elect people to make decisions on a routine basis, meaning that a choice made under entirely different circumstances thirty years ago might not make a lot of sense with 2020 hindsight of today.

One elected government will make a decision, the next will condemn that decision (usually for nothing more than political point scoring), the next government will do the same...

It's so easy to be a Monday Morning quarterback when you have more information and knowledge about a situation now than those making the decisions in the best interests of your public back then.

The crux of the problem is this... you elect a government to work in the BEST INTERESTS OF YOUR NATION. Sometimes, like it or not, that means making difficult decisions which some might later think are hypocritical.

Don't be pretending that Russia is some kind of saintly nation, they've shot down a passenger plane murdering hundreds of people, they've invaded another country and stolen a chunk of their land, and they are currently threatening several other nations with military force.

Those in glass houses...

Ukraine has been important since the USSR broke up. As said in the Grand Chessboard Ukraine is a pivot country, a very important one. If Russia could not bring Ukraine close to them they will never return to their former power.
Both the US and Russia have known this. The current situation looks like a compromise, Russia gets crimea and will get chunks of eastern ukraine but are paying a price for it. Giving them this much will set relations back 50 years and keep ukraine out of good relations with russia. ukraine looks west, the US obliges and gives terms for nato to prevent future aggression. US gets bases in ukraine.

a reply to: jellyrev

Russia gets / has military bases in Ukraine as well or was there some particular reason you ignored that? Russia currently occupies parts of Ukraine where the US nor west occupy any part of Ukraine.

Secondly its not up to Russia, or anyone else for that matter, to determine the course a country decides to take. Judging by the latest polls taken in the occupied zones of E. Ukraine, the rebels will not win the vote unless they pull a Russia and rig the results.

TRying to constantly blame the US / west for Russian stupidity is getting old.

a reply to: Rocker2013

There is rarely hypocrisy in the Russian way of proceeding. Only the reasons why they behave so, gets distorted in the MSM.

originally posted by: DJW001
In what way are they similar? The United States armed a group of refugees in an attempt to stage counter-revolution, which failed. Are you now claiming that Russia armed refugees in an attempt to stage a counter-revolution in Ukraine? If so, all they got out of it was an exclave in need of financial support and utter chaos on their border. Does that sound like a success to you?

Don't you know the US handed 8 B-26 bombers to a group of refugees ?
No, Russia do not back counter-revolutionary actions, Georges Soros and others are there for that.
When you see what the US has done with its other enclave on Cuban soil : Guantanamo bay, it's indeed better they didn't went further.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

No, Russia do not back counter-revolutionary actions,

You're wrong, of course, but given that belief, in what way are the Bay of Pigs fiasco and the invasion of Crimea similar?

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

There is rarely hypocrisy in the Russian way of proceeding. Only the reasons why they behave so, gets distorted in the MSM.

There's no hypocrisy in having an army of bloggers hinting that MH-17 was an American false flag while covering up their own involvement? And what about the Moscow apartment bombings Putin masterminded to justify his genocidal war against Chechens?

a reply to: Xcathdra

So once again Russia is gearing up to go after another former SSR that wants to have some independence from Moscow.

Not true. You do know that this is not actually happening, and that it's all just in your head? Right?

If Belarus doesn't give in to Russian demands to build a Russian air force base in Belarus they are going to destabilize the current government and put their own in place.

What? That's the classical US move. Heck, that strategy is taken right from the US military books. And everyone here knows about it, including you.

At what point should Russia be stopped?

Stopped because of what? Some article's assumptions? I agree. Let's stop them because some posters here are saying Putin want's to build the new SSSR and because of the propaganda material that's all around the internet. Stop them. While we let the US and their puppets at NATO run and destroy country after country so they could destabilize the current government and put their own in place. Wow, now that's more fitting, don't you think?

a reply to: DJW001

I never kicked into any MH17 conspiracy personally. But I'll be curious to read the dutch safety board report when it's released.
There is absolutely no doubt this is a Russian-made missile that shot down the plane. And that statement should rejoice all propaganda-filled idiots. Because it's then easy to jump-to-conclusion that the Russians shot it down. The truth is that even if it's a russian-made missile, similar equipment is operated by both the Ukrainians and the Russians. And the fact that it's Russian-made doesn't mean it is Russian-fired.

In the same way, yesterday, while I was in the garden, I was flown over by a Chinook escorted by an Apache helicopter. Since the Belgian air force only operate NH90 and Agusta A109 this is an unlikely sight here. I didn't jump to conclusion that Belgium was invaded by the US or that we lost sovereignty over our own airspace as some people seems to suggest about Belarus. We are part of NATO in Belgium, Belarus is part of a similar alliance with Russia, point. NATO is expending itself, the Russians are tightening their links with their partners, point.

About Crimea and the bay of the pigs, the geo-strategical situation is comparable : insular area located at a comparable distance, in a broader political context of growing tensions between a country that is suspicious to see one of it's neighbours allied with the other guys.
The difference has to be found within the concerned populations : anti-americans in Cuba, pro-Russians in Crimea.

a reply to: Nikola014

Not true. You do know that this is not actually happening, and that it's all just in your head? Right?

Well it seems one of Putin's former top economic adviser doesn't think your way.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has his eyes on eventually reclaiming Finland and the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, according to Putin’s former top economic adviser, Andrey Illarionov.

Illarionov laments that the West let Putin get away with invading and annexing parts of former-Soviet Georgia, and says more is to come. “The west let him do it with impunity, and now he has got Crimea,” Illarionov told Svenska Dagbladet.

americablog.com...

What? That's the classical US move. Heck, that strategy is taken right from the US military books. And everyone here knows about it, including you.

And yet it seems to be the same thing that others think also...

Belsat analyst Mikhas’ Likhtarovich points out that in the view of the Russian leadership, Moscow finances keep the Belarusian leadership in place. A decision needs to be made on how to deal with Lukashenka, and hasten the integration of Belarus into Russia. Such integration presupposes the introduction of the Russian ruble (an old canard first debated in the mid-90s), the transfer of executive functions to Moscow and even lustration of Belarusian officials.

belarusdigest.com...

Stopped because of what? Some article's assumptions? I agree. Let's stop them because some posters here are saying Putin want's to build the new SSSR and because of the propaganda material that's all around the internet.

Unlike all that truth coming from Russian media these days.

While we let the US and their puppets at NATO run and destroy country after country so they could destabilize the current government and put their own in place. Wow, now that's more fitting, don't you think?

You do know that NATO is made up of many countries and not just the US, and the US doesn't have final say as to what NATO does so how can they be our puppets?

It's fitting to see you have no clue as to what your saying, but you try and for that I give you some credit.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

In the same way, yesterday, while I was in the garden, I was flown over by a Chinook escorted by an Apache helicopter. Since the Belgian air force only operate NH90 and Agusta A109 this is an unlikely sight here. I didn't jump to conclusion that Belgium was invaded by the US or that we lost sovereignty over our own airspace as some people seems to suggest about Belarus.

Amazing how not everything is a conspiracy fit's here and works.

You may not have jumped to that conclusion, I guarantee other members would have.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

About Crimea and the bay of the pigs, the geo-strategical situation is comparable : insular area located at a comparable distance, in a broader political context of growing tensions between a country that is suspicious to see one of it's neighbours allied with the other guys.
The difference has to be found within the concerned populations : anti-americans in Cuba, pro-Russians in Crimea.

Nope. The Cuban government was nationalizing property owned by American interests, Crimea was not nationalizing Russian property. If the Bay of Pigs were successful, Cuba would have remained independent under a government freely elected by Cubans. Russia annexed Crimea and is governing it from Moscow. See the differences? Why do you admire any imperialism but American imperialism?

belarus huh. is that what the official ats warmongers want us dumb sheeple to believe? have you guys made one post in the past year and a half that is still true to this day? your misinformation and love of my government is staggering. to bad you dont love my country as much you do my government then you might actually be useful. and yes there is a major difference.

but to the topic at hand. is this a distraction from the real problem spot?
maybe you should make a new thread about the new no-fly zone that is about to be over syria.
oh havent heard. no real surprise.

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/11/us-mideast-crisis-syria-arms-idUSKCN0RB1Q020150911]



im not entering into arguement with the usual suspects.

valuewalk is the op source. then to eurasia.net from washington d.c. SMH