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Why Belarus Is About To Get Interesting

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posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

They may be fanatics for sure, but Isis military command is (from what I've read) dominated by ex Saddam era Iraqi officers of the Sunni sect who have jumped on the band wagon to get one back for the destruction of their dominant rule. These Iraqi Sunni officers were often trained in Russia. The links are there, hey I'm just throwing around this idea, but it is working for getting Russia into the thick of things.




posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
Putin is posing as an elected official; he requires legitimacy. The sham elections lull people into believing he has it.


Unless you prove the elections in Russia are more biased than the farce than happened in Florida during Bush second re-election, this is nothing but propaganda.


originally posted by: DJW001In fact, his power comes from terror.


Which fact ?


originally posted by: DJW001He presides over a police state that imprisons dissenters and is surrounded by oligarchs who understand that they can be destroyed if they betray him.


Again, fact ?

The 10000 protesters during his re-election widely reported on Fox-news like media or the totally unmentioned 100000 Russian cheering him in an opposing event are more convincing than your empty statements. You dislike Putin but it's the Russians that are voting in Russia and they don't think like you. Can you live with it without screaming after fascism ?


originally posted by: DJW001George Soros is a private citizen. He does not require "legitimacy." The fact that you don't understand these simple distinctions is very telling.


Are all private citizen allowed to destabilize foreign countries in favour of their personal interests ?


originally posted by: DJW001
My fascist detector went off the scale! Who wrote this article? F. William Engdahl, hate monger. Where does he get his information?

CyberBerkut! An unapologetic Neo-Nazi group!

...


I just took the latest example available. If you want an other one :
Once upon a time, in the land of Voltaire,

Soros Criminal Conviction Exposes “Human Rights” Scam


originally posted by: DJW001Why is it you feel the need to launder your sources? It only took a couple of mouse clicks to see that your source was parroting globalresearch.com, a known Kremlin propaganda organ, which was quoting, in turn, a posting from cyberberkut which was proven to be a deliberate misrepresentation, remember?

www.abovetopsecret.com...


The very same be said for Soros, how easy is it to find a news article, where he is advocated as pro-democracy, published by an organism that is NOT controlled by him or in his sphere of influence ? The shadow organization of Soros and his coercive use of money allows him to get rid of international borders and to manipulate whatever he wants from a good safe distance. Do you think it's democratic just because he paid for it ? He can buy whatever he wants but what other people - like Putin - are refusing to sell him.


originally posted by: DJW001
No, I am pointing out that, since you consistently support totalitarian states, admire totalitarian leaders, and seem to get most of your news from fascist propaganda sources, you would probably cut a more admirable figure if you boldly proclaimed yourself a Fascist instead of half-heartedly pretending to be pro-democracy.


At least people in Russia elected Putin. There is no question of totalitarianism in the defence for of the people's electoral choice over the corrupting power of some private individuals.
You don't realise that the 'democracy' you pretend to be defending is rotten. Re-watch the Jimmy Carter video if necessary.


originally posted by: DJW001You have never provided any evidence that there is a connection between his organization's educational work and the violence perpetrated by right wing pro-Russian Nazis.


Nazi Ukrainian are to be found about pro-western fighters : Azov Batalion
Just another proof of you biased propaganda, it's so embarrassing that even you own gov decided that it was better to officially stop financing them, and use shadow policy instead.


originally posted by: DJW001Yet you seem to believe that the sham referendum in Crimea was democratic, even though the only observers who said it was were Fascist.


Who paid the observers ?



originally posted by: DJW001
What would constitute a failure? Losing to Russia?


For Soros, probably. Same goes with any people who consider Russia only as an enemy.
In the context of the OP, the only thing Soros does democraticly is organizing his agenda according to the electoral calendar of countries he wants to mess with.



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke


Unless you prove the elections in Russia are more biased than the farce than happened in Florida during Bush second re-election, this is nothing but propaganda.


If the elections were rigged, wouldn't the results have been more clear cut? The fact that Putin always wind by a landslide should tell you something. As for the rest of your post, the fact that George Soros was once convicted of insider trading does not prove that he is deliberately toppling governments through violence. Just for fun, here are some more pictures of the people you keep quoting and admiring:











I would have some respect for you if you were more honest about your politics.



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: DJW001

At least, I do an effort to keep every single of my posts related to the OP ...



I would have some respect for you if you were more honest about your politics.


I would have some respect for my politics if they were more honest about me.

They are voting soon in Belarus - wait and see.



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke


They are voting soon in Belarus - wait and see.


All I know is that Ukrainian and Belarusian football hooligans were singing anti-Russian songs together... but maybe that was just about football rivalry.



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 04:27 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

I don't know why hooliganism is so often making use of nazi imagery and ideology, it's the same where ever you go : Croatia, Poland, Netherla nds, even in places where soccer is not that popular : NYC.

I used to go often to football matches in the past, I played myself and was a referee. You'd be surprised what for an amount of insanity parents can shout at their kids in these circumstances. I suppose you don't want me to make an account of the incidents I personally witnessed one of the last time I went to a match. I wouldn't go to a stadium with my 4 years old.

Here is a pre-electoral poll from April this year : Public opinion’s pre-election context



Conclusions

1) Trends we measured have failed to present curves with a given direction and have assumed a fluctuating character.

2) The ranges of changes have stabilised, limited by a defining, determining force of in-depth value systems.

3) Media behaviour has returned to the original, shall we say, ‘pre-Ukrainian’ patterns. However, features of selectivity, active search and comparability will probably remain forever.

4) The pro-European vector of Belarusian geopolitical awareness has not exhibited a tendency to grow during the last two months.


EDIT : Where is the picture of Jimmy Carter doing the Nazi salute ?





edit on 16-9-2015 by theultimatebelgianjoke because: Added text



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 07:33 AM
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originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke

EDIT : Where is the picture of Jimmy Carter doing the Nazi salute ?


Good question.. Was that taken before or after the USSR alliance with Nazi Germany? Or before or after Putins love fest with the neo Nazi groups in Russia?

Russia has the largest concentration of neo national Nazi groups than any other country. For supposedly being anti Nazi anti fascist Putin and his government sure do act in the very same manner.


While we are at it can you explain what any of that has to do with Belarus not doing Russia's bidding and facing a Ukraine because of it?
edit on 16-9-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2015 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke


I don't know why hooliganism is so often making use of nazi imagery and ideology, it's the same where ever you go : Croatia, Poland, Netherla nds, even in places where soccer is not that popular : NYC.


And yet Moscow has used this to "prove" that the democratically elected government in Kyiv is Nazi.



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 08:05 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
Good question.. Was that taken before or after the USSR alliance with Nazi Germany?


How far will you try to rewrite history ? Last time I checked the Russians liberated Auschwitz and captured Berlin at the end of WWII.


originally posted by: Xcathdra
Or before or after Putins love fest with the neo Nazi groups in Russia?

Russia has the largest concentration of neo national Nazi groups than any other country. For supposedly being anti Nazi anti fascist Putin and his government sure do act in the very same manner.


Do you have a poll for that, like the one I happened to post or, is it just propaganda ? In this situation objectivity would require a non Soros sponsored source.


originally posted by: Xcathdra
While we are at it can you explain what any of that has to do with Belarus not doing Russia's bidding and facing a Ukraine because of it?


The question is for DJW001, ask him why he needs to share his questionable picture collection here in order to try to make a point.



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
How far will you try to rewrite history ? Last time I checked the Russians liberated Auschwitz and captured Berlin at the end of WWII.


You should actually learn history then - ALL of it. In case you don't know their was an alliance between Nazi Germany and the USSR up to 1941, when Nazi Germany stabbed the USSR in the back and launched operation Barbarossa. Prior to that operation the Nazis and Soviets were in fact allies, jointly invading Poland and dividing the country up.





originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke

Do you have a poll for that, like the one I happened to post or, is it just propaganda ? In this situation objectivity would require a non Soros sponsored source.


There is no poll. It is a verified fact that the largest contingent of Neo Nazis reside in Russia. Which in itself is hilarious considering Generalplan Ost.


originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
The question is for DJW001, ask him why he needs to share his questionable picture collection here in order to try to make a point.

Or we could ask you why you are insistent on trying to derail the thread while actively selecting bits and pieces of history while ignoring the parts that don't support your agenda.

The topic is Belarus and the threats coming from Russia if Belarus doesn't do their bidding.



posted on Sep, 17 2015 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke


The question is for DJW001, ask him why he needs to share his questionable picture collection here in order to try to make a point.


I just explained above. The Kremlin kept posting pictures of people waving at the crowds or singing football fight songs to "prove" there a a "Nazi coup." It sure is sickening and disgusting when someone uses the same technique to make the side you favor look bad, doesn't it? Of course the difference is that your side really are Fascists, as I have demonstrated in these threads:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The technique has actually gotten me a death threat, which I am forwarding to the Mods. The truth hurts.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 06:29 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra
a reply to: DJW001

So you guys would only acknowledge a point if it makes intensive use of Nazi-like imagery ?
No comment BUT I'll satisfy your request anyway.

So here is a video of some obviously Nazi dressed individuals singing an obviously Nazi song (with subtitles), in a narrated historical Belgian context so that you can keep it personal against me.



The points I would like to bring to your attention while quenching your thirst of Nazi memorabilia are :

a) It's staged
b) It's an American production
c) As of a and b, you have to take it for what it's worth.

 


It's pointless and non-constructive to make claims of fascism or propaganda as both sides can throw these statements at each other with a total baselessness. This is nothing but ranting so let's try to use factual argument or the see if the claims can be backed by some fact.

Thus the upcoming elections in Belarus.
What is more and more advocated in the western MSM these days about elections in Belarus is that the 'opposition called for boycott'. I heard about the subject on the radio and it seemed mandatory to indicate, at multiple occurrences, that the opposition called after a boycott of the election ... without further clarification. Leaving most people with the envy to believe that if they call for boycott it's because the election is likely to be unfair. Practically, the call for boycott was backed by 300 demonstrators in Minsk, a city with 2 million inhabitants, capital of country with around 9.5 million people.
The proportional amount of demonstrators balanced with the rest of the population definitely doesn't deserve such media coverage in the west unless, what they're seeking is to discredit or insinuate deliberately a negative image of the electoral process among the target audience.
The call for boycott is handy when the opposition realises, thanks to pre-electoral polls, that it has few chances of winning and that it would sound better to claim - through boycott - the voices of the abstentionists.

Don't worry, I don't follow an agenda nor I will not back what's going on in Russia or Belarus at all cost.
There are of course things wrong there and the democratic process is only enhancing. Opponents have been released before the election, they probably shouldn't have been arrested in first place, I don't know enough about them. But things are getting better in the East, despite the sanctions and the foreign-backed destabilisation campaigns. If things were getting worse, the opposition against the current elected official would go increasingly, it doesn't.

About the Russian/Belarus base, guess what ? Western and eastern medias simply just can't have the same account of the same story, let's ask the Belarussians what they think about it :
The Russian Air Force Base in Belarus: Getting the Facts Straight


Last week (27 octobre 2014) Chief of the Russian Air Force Viktor Bondarev announced that a Russian airbase would be established in Babruysk in 2016. An article from the Moscow Times on expanding the Russian air force presence abroad, subsequently reprinted in the Guardian, painted a rather dramatic, yet not entirely correct picture.

According to the story, Russia has stationed its fighter jets in Baranavichy and announced plans for an air base in Lida and even decided to establish an airbase in Babruysk. This is all a part of Russia's global military expansion with Russian strategic bombers going to the Caucasus and Central Asia and probably to other regions as well.

Analysis of recent news on the Russian base in Belarus paints a slightly different picture. Minsk and Moscow gave up plans to put Russian fighter jets next door to NATO member states. Russia will get only one base in Babruysk, and later than it had originally planned.

The regional military balance of air forces will show NATO's significant superiority even after the establishment of the Russian base. Revising their plans, Minsk and Moscow have effectively shown to the West their willingness to ease current tensions.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke


Analysis of recent news on the Russian base in Belarus paints a slightly different picture. Minsk and Moscow gave up plans to put Russian fighter jets next door to NATO member states. Russia will get only one base in Babruysk, and later than it had originally planned.


So western reports that Russia will not be allowed to expand its military presence in Belarus are true. Your source spins it to look like it was a mutual decision on the part of Belarus and Russia, but the fact is that there is clearly a chill between the two. We already know the results of the election, the question is: is the inevitable winner already cooling towards Moscow? If that happens, what will be Putin's response? Will the US and EU soften towards Lukaschenko if Russia threatens his regime?



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 08:50 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Why do you consider it is 'my source' ? It's from a journalist in Belarus.
For someone who dares to display a banner like yours, it is utter hypocrisy not to agree to listen to representative of both parties before considering it's spinning information or biased perspective.

The US do whatever it wants or is advocated to do by the moguls running things in shadow.
The EU will probably lift the sanctions.

Lukashenko is known in the Western MSM as 'Europe's last dictator'. He is place for over 21 years and yet, the people from Belarus are ready to award him another presidential ticket. There is nothing we can do about it.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
The US do whatever it wants or is advocated to do by the moguls running things in shadow.
The EU will probably lift the sanctions.


I may have been tough with that one ...
I don't mean to suggest that the US is more corrupt than the EU.
I mean that the US is probably as corrupt as the EU.
Europe’s lobbies: Brussels comes second to Washington

Generally speaking, I don't wish to be understood as anti-American, I just consider that the US is not the most entitled country to give lessons to the Russians.

Putin is probably a questionable individual inside the Russian microcosm but the question is asked to the Russians. No one, even in the west, seems to suggest that Putin is a weak that will subdue Russia's interests Yeltsin-style.
It's an opposition between two Oligarchies. Blaming the other of corruption by using a lobbying empire is like clubbing a baby seal in the name of animal welfare.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke


Why do you consider it is 'my source' ?


Because you are the one who quoted, not me. If I had quoted it, it would be my source.


It's from a journalist in Belarus.


Yes, I can see that. Did I express doubt that it was?


For someone who dares to display a banner like yours, it is utter hypocrisy not to agree to listen to representative of both parties before considering it's spinning information or biased perspective.


But I have listened to both sides. They both agree that Russia is not going to get all the bases in Belarus that it wants. That was the first thing I said in my post. The sources differ as to the reasons why. That is where spin comes in. Western sources tend to portray it as a rift, pro-Russian sources tend to portray it as a mutual decision.


The US do whatever it wants or is advocated to do by the moguls running things in shadow.


So you keep saying. That seems to be the whole reason you're here. I don't suppose those hidden moguls are... Jews Zionists?


The EU will probably lift the sanctions.


I don't know about that. Democratic republics can be unpredictable.


Lukashenko is known in the Western MSM as 'Europe's last dictator'. He is place for over 21 years and yet, the people from Belarus are ready to award him another presidential ticket.


You mean the people of Belarus are unable to prevent him from awarding himself another term.


There is nothing we can do about it.


There is plenty we can do about it, but you strongly oppose those who do. You seem to like the situation and revile those who make any effort to change things. This is why you appear to be a Fascist sympathizer: rather than applaud people who stand up against Fascist regimes, you denounce them as western puppets. You have that right, of course, but don't take offense at the obvious conclusions.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke


Generally speaking, I don't wish to be understood as anti-American, I just consider that the US is not the most entitled country to give lessons to the Russians.


Who is, in your opinion? Name one state that you admire, and feel should be a model for the world. I'm curious.



posted on Sep, 18 2015 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

The video you linked is from the 1965 movie Battle of the Bulge and the song is called Panzerlied.


The Panzerlied is one of the best known Wehrmacht songs. It was composed in June 1933 by Oberleutnant Kurt Wiehle while on his way to Königsbrück. Wiehle adapted a German sailor's song, writing lyrics more appropriate to the Panzerwaffe. At the time, Germany was clandestinely developing an armored force in defiance of the Treaty of Versailles. The song could be considered as a reflection of the German re-armament, launched in the same time frame as the song was written.

It has gained fame in the English-speaking world due to its usage in the 1965 film Battle of the Bulge.[1][2] While throughout that film German characters speak English, the song is sung in the original German.



what does a movie have to do with what we are discussing?



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 05:09 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001

Because you are the one who quoted, not me. If I had quoted it, it would be my source.


It's the product of the journalist's work.
I don't play ideological top trumps by throwing quote processed by third party individuals.
I do rely on something called critical analysis.
A news should never be dismissed because of it's sole source.
Didn't I use bilderberg-sponsored links as well ?


originally posted by: DJW001
Yes, I can see that. Did I express doubt that it was?


No, as you never explained why you felt that your personal consideration of the current situation in Belarus is supposedly more accurate than what a citizen of the said country may have to say about it.


originally posted by: DJW001
But I have listened to both sides. They both agree that Russia is not going to get all the bases in Belarus that it wants. That was the first thing I said in my post. The sources differ as to the reasons why. That is where spin comes in. Western sources tend to portray it as a rift, pro-Russian sources tend to portray it as a mutual decision.


So, you don't agree with what the guy has to say but you consider it's spinning information anyway.
Why do you say the journalist is pro-Russian ?


originally posted by: DJW001
So you keep saying. That seems to be the whole reason you're here. I don't suppose those hidden moguls are... Jews Zionists?


WTF ?


originally posted by: DJW001
I don't know about that. Democratic republics can be unpredictable.


For those who try to manipulate them, for others they're just supposed to be democratic.


originally posted by: DJW001
You mean the people of Belarus are unable to prevent him from awarding himself another term.


No, I mean the electoral process will grant him another mandate because the majority of people living in Belarus think he should be the next President.


originally posted by: DJW001
There is plenty we can do about it, but you strongly oppose those who do. You seem to like the situation and revile those who make any effort to change things. This is why you appear to be a Fascist sympathizer: rather than applaud people who stand up against Fascist regimes, you denounce them as western puppets. You have that right, of course, but don't take offense at the obvious conclusions.


Do you support meddling with electoral process ?
Why do you consider that isolating the said countries is likely to put them on the path for more democracy ?
Sorry but your own government recognizes the virtues of dialogue as well.



posted on Sep, 19 2015 @ 05:17 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

No envy to obfuscate about the 'off-topicness' of this post instead ?


originally posted by: DJW001
Who is, in your opinion? Name one state that you admire, and feel should be a model for the world. I'm curious.


I can only choose objectively within the countries I have visited so far. I'm in general quite satisfied of Belgium.
Despite weather considerations I'd go to Scandinavia or Iceland.
No one is perfect.



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