Question for Muslims about women?

I honestly want to hear your explanation of the following logical deduction.

Muslims, as far as I can tell, agree with God or Allah as their creator. But, muslims mutilate women sexually, cover them up so they won't be seen etc. By doing that, you are saying in effect that Allah did not know how to create a woman and thus you have to fix what he did wrong.

Could you please explain how you can allow and support such an assault on your God and being an imperfect creator? Because in essence this is what you are doing when you allow these practices.

I'm not Muslim, but I'd guess they do it because the Qur'an says to...

Quran (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, (etc...)

Just like how Christians do certain stuff cause the Bible says to.

originally posted by: Elton
I'm not Muslim, but I'd guess they do it because the Qur'an says to...

Quran (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, (etc...)

Just like how Christians do certain stuff cause the Bible says to.

I can follow that, but what about genital mutilation? Is that in the Quran as well? I can understand clothing, etc., but when it comes down to the physical body, then that is where it becomes a conundrum.

But, muslims mutilate women sexually…

Thats utterly ridiculous, Islam does not advocate that, never has.

originally posted by: spirit_horse

originally posted by: Elton
I'm not Muslim, but I'd guess they do it because the Qur'an says to...

Quran (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, (etc...)

Just like how Christians do certain stuff cause the Bible says to.

I can follow that, but what about genital mutilation? Is that in the Quran as well? I can understand clothing, etc., but when it comes down to the physical body, then that is where it becomes a conundrum.

Genital mutilation is done in Christian nations in Africa as well. It's not religious based. Bill Maher went on a rant about it and was later corrected.
Genital mutilation

a reply to: buster2010

So, are you saying it is tribal or something regional people do as opposed to being religious based? I honestly don't know, I have only seen the stories on female genital mutilation associated with muslims, but if that is incorrect i would like to know. I keep hearing from people, not here on ATS, about it being an Islam thing.

Obviously, circumcision comes to mind regarding other religions, so I know that exists.

ETA: I just read the article you linked. I didn't realize that. So, in light of this, it sounds like certain sources are pinning it on them for propaganda'?

originally posted by: intrptr

But, muslims mutilate women sexually…

Thats utterly ridiculous, Islam does not advocate that, never has.

Yea Intrptr, I see that now. I had only heard that is all these stories passed around on social media and never really researched it, which I should have before asking the question. Buster's linked article pretty much explained it.

It's all a lie really, I have seen so called Muslims in England drinking booze and dating infidel women in short skirts, Religion is used by many to excuse certain actions, Religion is essentially a get out of jail free card for a lot of "followers", when I worked with Muslims from Yemen you could tell they were Religious, they made westernized Muslims look like infidels lol

Most religion is fake although like I mentioned there are some that are truly religious, but most of it is manipulated, the rules change constantly...and I agree, Muslim women are oppressed, you can be sure a lot of Muslim men have gone down the ol happy lane for a bit of fun while the wife is cooking some Halal food for the five nippers.

long story short, humans are not smart enough to be ruled by a doctrine

a reply to: spirit_horse

I keep hearing from people, not here on ATS, about it being an Islam thing.

With all the Islamphobes on this forum it's no real shock that they are claiming this.

So, in light of this, it sounds like certain sources are pinning it on them for propaganda'?

That's exactly what it is propaganda. If it were a Muslim or Christian practice then wouldn't it be taking place in all the nations where Islam or Christianity dominates the populace? Right now there is a movement to dehumanize the followers of Islam so they will use anything they can find to cast a bad light on Islam.

That's true, it's a local custom, but it only happens among Muslims. It is not sanctioned by the Koran.
a reply to: intrptr

Muslim clothing for women varies greatly. Many of those in America wear what everyone else wears, a blouse, pants, and no headscarf.
a reply to: spirit_horse

I've gone to town in boxers, sandals, and a bathrobe. Best I can tell it didn't anger any gods. It did garner a few odd stares. Did it bother me? Not one bit.

a reply to: spirit_horse
In the Abrahamic religions, women are second class citizens, and subject to men's perceived "authority". As disgusting as it is to see women still being treated like pets and property in the 21rst century, it is what it is, until our species gets weary of living in the stone age mentality.

a reply to: Parthin96
Actually, it happens among christians as well (in africa, where FGM is prevalent). In other regions, nobody is performing FGM (whether muslim or any other religion).

a reply to: spirit_horse

All found in hadith books mate. Here are many of the misconceptions Muslims and non-Muslims have of the Quran.
www.quranicpath.com...

I also posted this earlier

originally posted by: Boeing777
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

The only thing left of Islam today is the Quran. Looking around, there are barely any Muslims today who integrate the Quran into their lives. Even the so called Sharia law that Muslims and non-Muslims argue about are not from the Quran. They are in fact all from hadith books.

Just observe how Muslims(Sunnis and Shias being the two largest sects) live their lives today and their religious laws. Non of it is found in the Quran. All of it is in fact found in hadith books. Everything from stoning to death, 5 daily prayers, beheadings, male and female genital mutilation, forced marriages, 72 virgins, killing black dogs, women banned from religious activities during menstruation, child marriage, drinking camel piss(yes no joke), killing apostates, killing homosexuals, burqa, only men being able to execute divorces, endorsing of suicide bombings ALL of which contradict the Quran and cannot be found in it.The list goes on and on. They claim to follow the Quran but are in fact the farthest from it. Kinda hard to call yourself a Muslims while you're breaking every command in the Quran. The Quran has been turned into some song you memorize and recite. Just go to a madrasa and see it for yourself.
The hadith books are what dictates their religous laws. They just claim to follow the Quran when they're asked about it. All you need to do is observe them to see the truth.


The hadith books were actually written over 2 centuries after the death of Muhammad.
Does history repeat itself?

The Jews, hundreds of years after Moses's death created Mishnah (hadith, sayings) and Gemarrah (sunna, Actions) and uphold them and the invented laws in them rather than the TORAH (revealed word of God).

In the city of Nicene 300 years after the death of Jesus, the concept of Trinity was created, and is now the primary source of a Christian's belief in defiance of the Bible which advocates the absolute worship of God Alone.

The Muslims 150- 200 years after the death of Muhammed created another source of their religion with the Quran, "Hadith and Sunnah", falsely attributed to the prophet Muhammed, and in defiance of the Quran. Today most Muslims have discarded the Quran in favor of Hadith and Sunnah.
Sunnah is basically the teachings of someone. There really is no such thing as the so called sunnah of Muhammad.
Muhammad followed the same Sunnah mentioned in the Quran, that is the Sunnah of Allah.

"The only Sunna to follow shall be God's Sunna." [17:77, 33:62, 48:23, 6:114]

To say that Muhammad came with his own sunnah alongside Allah's sunnah is a great lie. That is blasphemy. You are ascribing partners with Allah and lying about the messenger claiming he said this and that.

I see these people as hadithist and Muhammadans. Sounds harsh but that's the truth.

Quran 6:114] Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[Quran 6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

originally posted by: spirit_horse
I honestly want to hear your explanation of the following logical deduction.

Muslims, as far as I can tell, agree with God or Allah as their creator. But, muslims mutilate women sexually, cover them up so they won't be seen etc. By doing that, you are saying in effect that Allah did not know how to create a woman and thus you have to fix what he did wrong.

Could you please explain how you can allow and support such an assault on your God and being an imperfect creator? Because in essence this is what you are doing when you allow these practices.

Quit making blanket accusations. You're talking about "female genital mutilation" (FGM). FGM is not in the Qur'an & it is not a requirement of Islam. FGM is the ridiculous practice of "circumcising" females which is found in some communities. As examples, my Mom & sister are Muslims and they've never had FGM done. For the record, circumcision isn't in the Qur'an, either.

As far as women covering up, maybe you should get to know the Judeo-Christian religions a little better, too. Ultra Orthodox Jewish women, Orthodox Christian women, Amish Christian women, and Catholic nuns also cover up the same way.

There are denominations and followers who don't follow everything in the Qur'an or follow things not found in the Qur'an. Every religion and ideology has people like that. As a simple example, there are Christians in America who get tattoos, even though the Bible directly says that tattoos & cuts that honor the dead are forbidden (Leviticus 19:28).

EDIT TO ADD: Also, things like segregation by the gender aren't found in the Qur'an, either. Things like that are usually found in Hadith, Sunna, or regional/tribal teachings. Anyone who strictly follows the Qur'an will have a vastly different idea of Islam from someone who follows specific denominations or schools of thought. And obviously the differences are vast, otherwise there wouldn't be so many different denominations & schools of thought in the first place.

Circumcision is a form of genital mutilation and all Abrahamic religions perform it. Not sure why Abraham and his God are so fascinated by genital mutilation but it's not just limited to Islam.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Circumcision is a form of genital mutilation and all Abrahamic religions perform it. Not sure why Abraham and his God are so fascinated by genital mutilation but it's not just limited to Islam.

Circumcision isn't in the Qur'an. The Muslims who require it are requiring it because of tradition, not because of God's actual teachings in the Qur'an. And oddly enough, the Bible is both for and against it. There are many contradictory passages in the Bible about it, as are listed here:
What does the Bible say about circumcision?

Ironically, I agree with the OP about circumcision and female circumcision ("female genital mutilation"). I believe that God created us perfectly & that circumcision is disrespectful to God. It serves no purpose except to mutilate something that doesn't need altering. Some people even die from it, particularly people in poorer countries who tend to do it as a "coming of age" ritual.

Ironically, one of the ancient rituals where it came from is called "Metzitzah b'peh" (MBP). I won't describe it here (ewww) but you can research it for yourself. There's absolutely nothing holy or divine about it.

Maybe other posters should get to know some real Muslims as I have.
a reply to: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Parthin96
Maybe other posters should get to know some real Muslims as I have.
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I agree. I think it'll happen in time. Right now, many people are still freaked out over media representations of Islam or simply haven't talked to the Muslims around them. Dialogue will solve a lot of these misunderstandings.