So, if you are saying who was Persia, who was Babylon and all that, then you have just admited they aren't who they were, yet Israel is again Israel. At the time of the Balfour Declaration, none of them existed as they were.

Illuminati, again, you are wrong. What a shame, that organization of yours feeds you a continuous line of anti-Semitic information. The Jews were scattered to the four corners, and from the four corners they come. The European Jews are no less Jewish than the Ethiopian Jew or the Jews that has remained in the region from the beginning.

Nope, your wrong. Read a history book.


Romans, Greeks, Russians, and all Europeans were fascinated with Jerusalem that they adopted her religion.

Be real, a pale face Jew is not the seed of Abraham, it takes a simple geography lesson to know so.

TC, simply because the name has changed, they suddenly become irrelevant? Its the Same Lands, just different names. With the exception of Iran, its basically the same people. These new artifical borders that were drawn up, and new names were given to them by the former European colonies. Changing a name doesnt change the existance of those countries.

Since Zionists have such a hold on the US, when Israel was created, they simply named it that, to match and attamept to validate thier occupation. Iraq had no say in its naming, nor did the other countries. The Imperial powers did.

Israel ceased to be a country long ago. If we want to, lets revive some old countries. For Instance, England used to be rome, lest let italy invade?

NO.

Again, if that concept goes for Israel, Skadi, then it goes for all the others in that area. Since Israel became a nation around the same time, as the Israelites have more of a claim, both historically as well as because they have built the land into value instead of how it was, they have claim to it. If you deny them their land, you deny also that the Arabs have claim to Iraq, Iran, Syria, Jordan and Kuwait.
Again, it seems interesting that one would try and deny Israel such little land while the Arabs, who have no more claim than the Israelites do, have so much.

Zion control over the U.S., Skadi? Please, are we going to fall into some kind of anti-Semitic conspiracy theory?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Again, if that concept goes for Israel, Skadi, then it goes for all the others in that area. Since Israel became a nation around the same time, as the Israelites have more of a claim, both historically as well as because they have built the land into value instead of how it was, they have claim to it. If you deny them their land, you deny also that the Arabs have claim to Iraq, Iran, Syria, Jordan and Kuwait.
Again, it seems interesting that one would try and deny Israel such little land while the Arabs, who have no more claim than the Israelites do, have so much.

Zion control over the U.S., Skadi? Please, are we going to fall into some kind of anti-Semitic conspiracy theory?

TC is just the most stubborn of all of us, normally TC when i disscuss with somebody, i do not deny historical facts for just being right, admit that u are not right, because obviously u seem really not objective, and u do not want to face the fact of the arab world, do u have muslim friends, or do u know a palestinian person?
I guess not, but maybe if i tell u that the indigenous and indians from north america, now in reserves, claim their territory after 250 of opresion, would you defend them?
They were before any british, or even colombus, and they have been kicked out of their own land, that shows enough, of the culture u live in, to have the face to say something about israel...
I really donīt get your ideas TC, normally u are logical, in this case believe u are not...
Someday u will change your mind due to reality, till then good luck

Arguing about who was on the land first doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.
The fact is that the ownership of the land throughout history has been contentious. You can argue until you are blue in the face, but that doesn't alter the fact that we're talking about a history that can be turned to suit either argument.

So look at it this way: The Jews ARE in Israel. It is now their home. They have nowhere else to go and Israel is where they now belong. You have to accept that fact.

They now have to share that home with others. They have to accept that fact.


To blame the Jews by saying as UP did that they are the instigators of all trouble in a lot of societies is one thing, but you have to be very careful where you use that argument.

UP. You state that the Jews have more than their fair share of the blame. I agree that they are responsible for a lot of what has happened, but that can in no way justify the way that they have been treated over the centuries by the rest of the world.
There have been attempts to exterminate their whole race in the past and even now, there are Arab fanatics who would like to carry on that work. In my eyes, however good the excuse, there is no justification for attempting to destroy a whole nation of people.

The Jews and the Arabs will have to live together. It is the only option. If neither can comply then a peace will have to be forced upon them. I believe that is what the roadmap does. It doesn't offer peace - it forces it through.
A situation has to be created where we finally have agreement that the Jews have a right to exist in Israel and the Arab population can gain it's independance and share of the land.
Once that has been agreed we will see who the good guys and the bad guys really are.

one last thing TC, that u say israel is from jews, and gaza must be bringed to them, u must know that there 2 holy places for every muslim,
The mosquee of palestine
And the Meca

Is gonna be very funny if israel does something to that place, because basiclly it is like insult the most important thing on any faith of any muslim, and then u will see authentical fanatism, what u see now is a joke, intifada started because one israeli minister, went to that place, claiming that it was from the jewish.
I think who doesnīt know history is you, becase when israel comes over that place, u will see the muslim world waking up seriously. Then something bad will happend, and ppl like you will even give more reasons to the jews
to get rid of the "fanatic muslims", thatīs why i tell u u are not objective in that matter, i supose u hate muslims a bit after the lies of 11-S

of an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory TC, remember the my post of Israel spying on America?

There are many conspiracies FIRMLY involving Israel TC, and to overlook them as anti-Semitic is plain wrong in my opinion.

You say that we are fed anti-Semitic press, but to just read the figures of Palestinian dead to Israeli dead, or to see how easily Israel flauts UN resolutions is enough proof for anyone.

We, in Britain, are not so swayed as you, in America, by the angle of press coverage. News in America is sold in the same way as any other marketable commodity. It has created a vicious, self-pertuating cycle of positive press coverage for Israel and Bush.

After 9-11 as the American people got behing Bush, it therefore follows that the media gets behind Bush so they can sell their product to a public willing to lap it all up.
The public are then swayed even more by the positive coverage of the Bush administration, therefore more positive media coverage, therefore higher ratings, therefore more media coverage, more ratings, coverage, ratings, coverage, ratings etc...

The only media to give a fairly balanced opinion have been the British media, in my opinion, due to our PUBLICLY OWNED BBC, which do not have to cater for advertisers, and our broadsheet newspapers.

However, the rest of Europe being is fed press with fairly strong under-currents of anti-Semitism. Just let that close your eyes TC. Keep an open mind...

Isn't that what this site is all about?



[Edited on 24-6-2003 by Fantastic_Damage]

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR

I think who doesnīt know history is you, becase when israel comes over that place, u will see the muslim world waking up seriously.

Yes, and as usual, they'll do a coalition ( it's better to be 10 VS 1, especially when you're not able to win. At least, you feel less stupid when you're not alone to lose ) ), will attack Israel in the back ( as usual ) and will recieve ( also as usual ) a good spank from the IDF. For one jew, how many muslims ? 100 ? 1000 ? And they NEVER won and will never win. Don't mess with the IDF.

Originally posted by Leveller

To blame the Jews by saying as UP did that they are the instigators of all trouble in a lot of societies is one thing, but you have to be very careful where you use that argument.

UP. You state that the Jews have more than their fair share of the blame. I agree that they are responsible for a lot of what has happened, but that can in no way justify the way that they have been treated over the centuries by the rest of the world.
There have been attempts to exterminate their whole race in the past and even now, there are Arab fanatics who would like to carry on that work. In my eyes, however good the excuse, there is no justification for attempting to destroy a whole nation of people.

Sorry ??? You're kidding, right ??? I think you didn't read what I wrote. Read again please, and you'll see where you wrong.

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR

I think who doesnīt know history is you, becase when israel comes over that place, u will see the muslim world waking up seriously.

Yes, and as usual, they'll do a coalition ( it's better to be 10 VS 1, especially when you're not able to win. At least, you feel less stupid when you're not alone to lose ) ), will attack Israel in the back ( as usual ) and will recieve ( also as usual ) a good spank from the IDF. For one jew, how many muslims ? 100 ? 1000 ? And they NEVER won and will never win. Don't mess with the IDF.

This is not funny Mr skeptic, there is a lot people dying everysingle day, even childs, because of your dear IDF, i think u donīt care about lives of innocents, otherwise you wouldnīt make such a comment, anyway stop with this because u donīt take peopleīs life serious, is not about play risk, or Command and conquers, is about reality, suffering of all the citizens of palestine, and of israel, and a lot of countries, just because of the sick game, that game that u see so funny....

I'm with you Cold Anger,

I think it's very sad that some guys here always make joke of those things, that is because they have never been in such a situation. And they can't feel how it feels like. That's also why I've stop replying in this thread because some think that it's good what one side is doing and it's bad what the other side is doing and they fail to see what the point is, by bringing up events of thousands of years ago. While those events don't matter for what is happening today.

For me both sides are doing bad things and there is no good or bad. I am also shocked how some Americans can defend Israel like they are doing now while they've killed Americans for nothing ! I bet that if it was Iraq that killed Americans the whole world would have been shaking..

How selective can you be ? Yes, one American girl was run over because she was protesting against the demolition of Palestinian homes, where settlers were going to build their homes. Or what about the english reporter who was shot in the back because he was filming some cruelty from the IDF. Those are only 2 examples of what they do when you get in their way.

Keep ignoring those things and you'll never understand why some peoples are angry with the American way of thinking.

And TC, history didn't start when some peoples like it to start, so I won't start at the point some want me to.

Originally posted by John bull 1
Some of your points David are just lies.Point 8 being the most obvious.You are using language to deceive.It is quite sickening really and a true reflection on how some are willing to rewrite history and reinterpret it to justify the illegal expansion of Israel.
Draw your same conclusion with the British,Greek,Roman,Egyptian,Persian and spanish civilisations.


You are using lies and selective facts to justify Zionist ambitions.
You are therefore an apologist for the Human rights abuses committed on a daily basis.

What no mention of the 90 Britons killed by Zionist terrorists before Israel was founded.

No mention that Israels first Prime Minister was a Terrorist.

No mention that the first suicide attacker was Samson pulling down a temple.

These selective "facts" prove nothing.

First, it is true that Mohamadens dont pray with their backs to Jerusalem and it was good of JB1 to point it out.

But the rest of the tirade is just ludicrous and quite frankly hypocritical and nothing more than some blanket aspersion about a whole people. If you want facts how about this:

Here is a "Briton", descendant of possibly one of the worst occupiers, enslavers and thieves of the human race bar none lecturing Israeli's about "human rights abuses" and "illegal occupations"? How about N.Ireland ? Scotland ? Falklands ? Gibraltar? etc etc. You people "took" every piece of real estate that suited your whims and hung on for deal life until you were literally thrown out and you have the audacity and temerity to lecture a people about how by reclaiming a small sliver of their homeland (which your government promised them in the first place! ) they are committing a "crime against humanity" ??

I find it ludicrous to call Israel's existence into question when they have more right to their lands than your country has to Ireland, Scotland or any other "land" you have conveniently annexed through war, intimidation or conquest in your "Kingdom". Apparently, all the sins of the past are forgiven and the sinner now deludes himself as to being a moral authority to condemn and criticize!?

Had Churchill the fortitude to let the Zionists settle in the erstwhile British colony of "Palestine", like was promised by the British themselves, there would have been no problem AT ALL. But, his seething Jew hatred couldnt be contained and he set forth in his machinations to turn Jew against Muslim in the most illustrious of British legacy "Divide and Conquer"! (No mention of this in your history books I bet? ) And apparently you find fault with how the Jews killed 50 odd Britons as a testament of their "nature" ?

The points mentioned in the opening posts are NOT about reclaiming all the lands under King David or all that is promised to the Israelites by God. If that were the case, Israel's border would extend from Iraq to the Sinai. Those points are there to expose the insidious myth that Israel's existence; the settlement of Jews in their land of origin is some grievous transgression against some phantom pre-existing Arab populace now called as "Palestinians" as peddled by the holier than thou high-horsemen!

[edit on 16-12-2008 by IAF101]

""Furthermore, the "Palestinians" who lived in Israel before the attack were not mistreated by the Israelis, but they left their homes to fight along with the Arabs after the Arabs told them that they could have it all after the Jews were exterminated. They, Skadi, left on their own accord, not forced out.""

This is the kind total BS that is constantly spewed by zionist extremists..it is historical fact that the Palestinians were driven out of their homes and villages during the 1948 war, it was a coordinated ethinic cleansing campaign to the ones used more recently in Kosovo and the balkins under Milosovich (only that time it was reversed)

Israel is a racist-aphartied state and that can never be justified, it can solve it's problem in 1 of 2 ways, first it could simply transform itself into a democracy by removing the jewishness out of the state and becoming a bi-national state-that way the Palestinians trapped in these 'bantustans' will have the same freedoms everyone else in the country has, and the Parliament will have about 1/2 it's members arab.
Or it can create a Palestinian state by removing about 3or400,000 people from the occupied WB.. but when you make a state you have to take into consideration it has to be fair, that means serious territorial concessions, at least the entire WB and then a little more, keep in mind both the WB and Gaza are only 22% of the total, in any society things have to be fair if you want violence to end, zionists are supramists, the main reason thee has been conflict in Palestine since they should up with their racist ideology.
What if zionism had just been about bringing Jews to Palestine? Instead it was about bringing Jews to Palestine and establishing a "Jewish State" , which meant everyone else was unwelcome..there lies the problem from the start..
People who say there is no Palestine or Palestinian, lets keep in mind a Palestinians parents were born in Palestine and so were theres and so were theres, unlike zionists who are immigrants, the Palestinians are an indeginous people which means they deserve equal rights with these newcomers.. The levant was always called Palestine in recent history, look at any newspaper or map from the 1800's to the 1900's before 1948 and it was always refered to as Palestine-obviously the Palestinians identify with that as their national characrter-they can't identify with Israel because thats for Jews only, Palestine can be for anyone; before the zionists showed up there were Jewish Palestinians, and there are christian Palestinans in Nazareth, Bethlaham, Jerusalem.. so lets drop this non-sense that there is no such thing a s a Palestinian.