It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Official spokesperson from Secret Space program about "big picture", Aug 31/15 (Randy Cramer)?

page: 12
42
<< 9  10  11    13 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 12:04 PM
link   
a reply to: DJW001

He has claimed many times to be acting under the authority of his two senior commanders, Colonel Jameson and Brigadier General Smythe, which quite clearly falls under the statute you listed,


18 USC § 912 - Officer or employee of the United States
Whoever falsely assumes or pretends to be an officer or employee acting under the authority of the United States or any department, agency or officer thereof, and acts as such,


So again the question is asked, if he has clearly violated this statute how come he has not been charged with anything? If he continues to walk free one of the clear possibilities is some or all of what he is saying is true.




edit on 12-10-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition




posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 12:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I keep hammering away at this...

There's probably 10% truth in this stuff, and the rest is nonsensical, sensationalized make-believe content to muddy the water and obfuscate the truth. It's a pretty typical tactic to hide something when tiny bits of the truth leak out.

If bits and pieces of a secret leak out what do you do? Well, one way to deal with it is just flood the world with outlandish and crazy information to confuse and bury anyone who investigates the subject.

Just turn up the noise to signal ratio and hide...


If even 10% is true it is still quite the revelation. What parts do you think are true?



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 12:14 PM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE


He has claimed many times to be acting under the authority of his two senior commanders, Colonel Jameson and Brigadier General Smythe, which quite clearly falls under the statute you listed,


He is claiming to be acting under the authority of two dead officers. One of them has been dead for two hundred years. There is no way his claim can be viewed as anything but fiction, "for entertainment purposes only."



posted on Oct, 12 2015 @ 12:24 PM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

That there is a secret space program outside of NASA


And I'm fairly certain we've done more than send toy remote control cars to Mars.



posted on Oct, 13 2015 @ 05:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE


He has claimed many times to be acting under the authority of his two senior commanders, Colonel Jameson and Brigadier General Smythe, which quite clearly falls under the statute you listed,


He is claiming to be acting under the authority of two dead officers. One of them has been dead for two hundred years. There is no way his claim can be viewed as anything but fiction, "for entertainment purposes only."


We covered this already. The officer in question was named "Smith", not "Smythe"


originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sputniksteve




If his actual title is Brigadier General, the 2 really shouldn't be separated as far as I know, but if you must shorten it General would be appropriate. Brigadier is like a qualifier for the General title, not a title in of itself.


Julian Smith was a Lieutenant General of the Marines until 1946 when he retired.


He retired as a lieutenant general in 1946, and he died in 1975, age 90.


www.nps.gov...

Pardon my mis representing of Mr. smith.


I appreciate your interest in this.

However, the Major General you are referring to that died a long time ago is Julian C. SMITH, whereas the one Randy Cramer reports to is Brigadier General Julian SMYTHE, "Julian" and "Smith" / "Smythe" being common names, I'm sure if you looked over the past century or so you could find general officers with names that were similar, such as Steve Johnson/Johnston, William Kelley/Kelly, Greg McKay/Mackay - I'm sure you get the picture.

Any other points you would like to discuss?


Anyway, the statute clearly states claiming to act for the government or any department, agency etc so of. Randy clearly states many times that he is taking direction from the USMC, in addition to being inactive USMC but ex-active USMC.

He is clearly violating the statute, as uncomfortable as that FACT may be to you. Let's see if he is charged under that statutes you quoted. If he doesn't get charged, at least the part about the USMC and his previous and current relation to it is true.



posted on Oct, 13 2015 @ 07:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE

He is clearly violating the statute, as uncomfortable as that FACT may be to you. Let's see if he is charged under that statutes you quoted. If he doesn't get charged, at least the part about the USMC and his previous and current relation to it is true.


Well, let's go with that then. If he has a "current" relationship with the USMC and is spilling the beans on this huge, deep dark secret why aren't they doing anything?

If this guy really has legit military connections he's even more suspicious in my book. Over the years a lot of real UFO researchers have learned the hard way about being wary of military and intelligence sources spouting wild stories about aliens. This has nothing to do with "ego" or knee jerk naysaying or being afraid of new ideas. It has to do with knowledge of the history of ufology.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 03:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE

He is clearly violating the statute, as uncomfortable as that FACT may be to you. Let's see if he is charged under that statutes you quoted. If he doesn't get charged, at least the part about the USMC and his previous and current relation to it is true.


Well, let's go with that then. If he has a "current" relationship with the USMC and is spilling the beans on this huge, deep dark secret why aren't they doing anything?

If this guy really has legit military connections he's even more suspicious in my book. Over the years a lot of real UFO researchers have learned the hard way about being wary of military and intelligence sources spouting wild stories about aliens. This has nothing to do with "ego" or knee jerk naysaying or being afraid of new ideas. It has to do with knowledge of the history of ufology.


Yes, but where did that knowledge of ufology come from? Much has come from military or intelligence personnel, but what was disinfo and what was genuine? If you don't want to question the history of ufology, that is your right. But I question everything. If something can stand on its own merits, great. However, I'm not going to leave sacred cows alone just because it may be upsetting to certain people or UFO religions, which there certainly are.

Hey, if no one had questioned Catholicism we would have never had the reformation, right? And people would have argued the same, not to question the religious knowledge (dogma), history, or people (the pope). Not that I'm religious, but the reformation seemed to be a big improvement over Catholicism.

Okay, so why should we investigate what he is saying? Well, much of what he is saying matches up with other sources, Corey Goode for one, as discussed here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 06:45 AM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I don't see how the Catholic Church analogy makes any sense. If there's anything resembling religious orthodoxy in all this it's the ETH.

My point is that if he really is military and they aren't prosecuting him for what he is saying that could just as easily be seen as evidence this is some sort of disinfo as evidence he is telling the truth.

I actually don't think either is the case. I think in Cramer's case it's false memories implanted by "hypnotherapy."

If you research this guy you'll find his story dramatically changed after Eve Lorgen and Alfred Webre got hold of him.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 12:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: DelMarvel
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

If you research this guy you'll find his story dramatically changed after Eve Lorgen and Alfred Webre got hold of him.



That is interesting, but it doesn't explain how he is getting regular ongoing briefings from his commanding officers in the USMC ss (secret space program) about what is going on.

I'm not as familiar with his story before he met the famous hypnotherapist Eve Lorgen, who seems to have helped many people.

Here is some of his story/timeline from her website, this interview from April 2014:

Question 3 (from Eve Lorgen)

When did you seriously start investigating your own history, and when did any flashbacks or bleed-through memories surface?


Answer (Randy Cramer)

Age 27-30 was a period of time with a lot of the memory shell starting to crack open. As I think I mentioned on the phone, it is my current belief that this cracking and eventual removal of the memory shell was intentional and timed. By age 30 I was seriously trying to solve the puzzle, by age 33 I had a raw framework based on highly traumatic events, by 35, the memory shell was Swiss cheese and I could see the forest and the trees for the first time. It was truly shocking. My ego certainly collapsed and I thought my entire identity was coming apart. Turned out it was just trying to hatch out of the memory shell. I got over myself and decided I just needed to do my job. I haven’t really struggled with it since. Sure, there’s been continuing issues to sort out, but I’ve known who and what I am for some time, and I’m very clear on that.


Here is the rest of that interview:

Whistleblower Randy Cramer Tells About Secret Military Operations on Mars

And here are some excerpts from the first "coming out" interview Randy did with her in 2006, 8 years prior to the one above, when he still wanted to remain anonymous:


1. Who or what material led you to my work/me?



first read an article, by you, about mind control on the Malevolent Alien Abduction research site. Upon completing the article, my Higher Self instructed me to email the author and start a dialogue. So I did, and here we are.


Interview with a Milab Supersoldier Recovered from Military and Reptilian/Drac Control


So we have an 8 year gap between these two interviews. And yes, the information is remarkably different......but not very inconsistent.

The early interview is mainly about the psychological trauma associated with mind control, repressed memories and how he had to fight through that.

The second interview is mainly about his experiences in the USMC ss (special section) secret space program on Mars.

However, he does say this in the 2006 interview, in response to question 21:


Some missions with Seals in Central America, mostly putting the squeeze on the coc aine cartels. I have some other memories which I felt were out of context because they were in the past, like Vietnam, or seemed to be on another planet. After James explained how they use time/space travel, however, (which I knew they had and used, I just didn’t know they used it like this) it makes a lot more sense that way.


So he says he seems to have memories of being on another planet, as well as conventional special ops memories.

So 8 years later, as seen in the 2014 interview, he doesn't mention memories of special ops in any Earth locations.

That seems to be the main inconsistency. The rest seems consistent with someone who underwent severe psychological trauma, worked to break free of the mind control, then slowly regained memories over time. So the Earth-based special ops memories were implanted and not real memories? That would be consistent with the rest of the story and other information on mind control, milabs (military abductions), and blank slating (wiping some memories and implanting others).

Can you point out any other major inconsistencies?



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 01:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE

That seems to be the main inconsistency. The rest seems consistent with someone who underwent severe psychological trauma, worked to break free of the mind control, then slowly regained memories over time.


It's also very consistent with undergoing years of suggestive "hypnotherapy" with someone who was looking for stories about the "secret space program."


originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
So the Earth-based special ops memories were implanted and not real memories? That would be consistent with the rest of the story and other information on mind control, milabs (military abductions), and blank slating (wiping some memories and implanting others).

Can you point out any other major inconsistencies?


You mean other inconsistencies beyond his entire story changing after coming into contact with Secret Space Program believers who suggested the idea to him? It sure looks like the same hypnotic technique used by David Jacobs and others. Anything that doesn't fit the narrative is dismissed as an "implanted" or "screen" memory and you keep hypnotizing the subject and making suggestions until you get the story you want.

Here's my more detailed take on the subject from a while ago:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 01:40 PM
link   
a reply to: DelMarvel

That is an interesting thread, thanks for sharing.

I can't disagree with how much in the story has changed, from 2006 to 2014, but as I said above, the changes seem to represent Randy's different stages in the breaking of the mind control and memory retrieval process, and very little is actually inconsistent.

There is much information about mind control programs done by various US government agencies, military and intelligence over the previous 50-60 years. The MK-Ultra mind control program is fact, admitted by the government. Where opinions differ is if it or similar programs have been completely shut down. The government says yes, others say no. Anyway, we know at least some mind control programs were fact.

From this it follows that a person could suffer from serious psychological trauma from mind control.

This appears what happened to Randy. In his initial 2006 interview he was still going through or recently through the traumatic part of breaking free from his mind control. Now, or in his 2014 interview, that process seems long behind him, he is articulate, intelligent and witty at times. Also, his info on Mars and such matches many others. Also, if you listen to his many interviews, he talks in detail about so many topics - they seem like natural memories and not rehearsed or scripted.

However, your premise rests on hypnotherapy being invalid. I wouldn't say it works for everyone or every trauma, but it seems to be used by thousands of psychologists and therapists from around the world on millions of people. Of course that does not prove it is infallible, but thousands have claimed it has worked for them, which would lead one to discount any claims that is completely invalid.

People like to cite David Jacobs and his work with claimed "abductees" as proof that hypnotherapy is a sham.

I talked about that in this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yet his claims are remarkable and logical, and he was a tenured prof on two university staffs for decades?

He gives us two choices. Either people are being abducted, OR this is the most interesting phenomenon to ever occur in psychology - yet nobody is studying it.

Also, the highly respected and liked Dr. Karla Turner had patients with similar experiences as David Jacobs - and yet she did not use hypnotherapy. Thus her findings support the claimed experiences of David Jacobs patients.

So you are welcome to the opinion that because hypnotherapy is involved all of Randy's information is invalid.

My opinion is that we should be aware of the hypnotherapy aspect when reviewing his information, but that does not necessarily invalidate it.




edit on 17-10-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: grammar, syntax and context



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
However, your premise rests on hypnotherapy being invalid.


No, I never said that. My position is that the specific style of hypnotherapy practiced by Jacobs and Lorgen is suspect.


originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
Yet his claims are remarkable and logical, and he was a tenured prof on two university staffs for decades?

Jacobs was a historian. Specializing in the history of 20th-century American popular culture. He had no legit training in hypnotherapy. If you're going to make an appeal to authority based on academic credentials then you have to also include that his techniques and conclusions were criticized by academics with credentials in the subject.


originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
Also, the highly respected and liked Dr. Karla Turner had patients with similar experiences as David Jacobs - and yet she did not use hypnotherapy. Thus her findings support the claimed experiences of David Jacobs patients.

Karla Turner was critical of Jacobs and his methods and accused him of ignoring information that did not support his theories.


originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
So you are welcome to the opinion that because hypnotherapy is involved all of Randy's information is invalid.


Once again, not hypnotherapy in general but leading, suggestive hypnotherapy by someone looking for certain stories. For reference, the original Lorgen interview with Cramer:

evelorgen.com... ac-control/

He said he was a Navy Seal, not a Marine. There are significant religious elements in the narrative. Nothing about Mars. The only passing reference to "another planet" is in the context of another believer putting the idea into his head. It's a completely different story.
edit on 17-10-2015 by DelMarvel because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 08:47 AM
link   
a reply to: DelMarvel

Okay, you make some good points, and you're right, I did use the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy - oops!

But like I said, MK-Ultra existed, no one debates that. Given that, Randy's changing info over the timeline is completely understandable. Breaking free of mind control would probably be a confusing experience, no? Dealing with implanted memories and suppressed memories? How would one discern what was real and what was implanted?

So thinking he was a Navy Seal involved in operations on Earth - with some memories of being on another planet - then cracking the memory shell or whatever the term is called, and discovering your real memories and learning what were implanted memories - is consistent with what you would expect someone breaking free of their mind control.

From what he said Eve helped him with this initial process, probably suspected what he was and did ask some leading questions at first - just like any therapist or detective or investigator attempting to determine the facts or info about something. You try out different hypotheses and see which ones lead somewhere. Eve, familiar already with the secret space program supersoldier info, tried that tack and it worked.

So she prompted him at the beginning. I would be surprised if she didn't. The rest is him remembering what actually happened to him, his real memories coming back, realizing his implanted memories were false.

I have listened to over a dozen hours of his interviews. He answers questions promptly and often elaborates on an answer, and is articulate and intelligent. Sure maybe 1% of what he says is what Eve prompted him with, but the rest is him. If you think Eve fed him most of what he says, hours and hours of different info, and that he was able to remember everything she supposedly fed him - I think that is a stretch.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 08:12 PM
link   
The guy is lying. The space fortress is on Saturn and many more on its various moons.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 08:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
Randy's changing info over the timeline is completely understandable.


When people just make silly stories up they find it difficult to keep their lies straight.



posted on Nov, 9 2015 @ 11:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
Randy's changing info over the timeline is completely understandable.


When people just make silly stories up they find it difficult to keep their lies straight.


except if those made up stories are not lies!



posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 04:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
Randy's changing info over the timeline is completely understandable.


When people just make silly stories up they find it difficult to keep their lies straight.


We had a lengthy discussion about this a few posts back, so to just post this short sentence completely removes the context of that quote, just like an unprofessional and/or unethical journalist.


originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
a reply to: DelMarvel

That is an interesting thread, thanks for sharing.

I can't disagree with how much in the story has changed, from 2006 to 2014, but as I said above, the changes seem to represent Randy's different stages in the breaking of the mind control and memory retrieval process, and very little is actually inconsistent.

There is much information about mind control programs done by various US government agencies, military and intelligence over the previous 50-60 years. The MK-Ultra mind control program is fact, admitted by the government. Where opinions differ is if it or similar programs have been completely shut down. The government says yes, others say no. Anyway, we know at least some mind control programs were fact.

From this it follows that a person could suffer from serious psychological trauma from mind control.

This appears what happened to Randy. In his initial 2006 interview he was still going through or recently through the traumatic part of breaking free from his mind control. Now, or in his 2014 interview, that process seems long behind him, he is articulate, intelligent and witty at times. Also, his info on Mars and such matches many others. Also, if you listen to his many interviews, he talks in detail about so many topics - they seem like natural memories and not rehearsed or scripted.

However, your premise rests on hypnotherapy being invalid. I wouldn't say it works for everyone or every trauma, but it seems to be used by thousands of psychologists and therapists from around the world on millions of people. Of course that does not prove it is infallible, but thousands have claimed it has worked for them, which would lead one to discount any claims that is completely invalid.

People like to cite David Jacobs and his work with claimed "abductees" as proof that hypnotherapy is a sham.

I talked about that in this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yet his claims are remarkable and logical, and he was a tenured prof on two university staffs for decades?

He gives us two choices. Either people are being abducted, OR this is the most interesting phenomenon to ever occur in psychology - yet nobody is studying it.

Also, the highly respected and liked Dr. Karla Turner had patients with similar experiences as David Jacobs - and yet she did not use hypnotherapy. Thus her findings support the claimed experiences of David Jacobs patients.

So you are welcome to the opinion that because hypnotherapy is involved all of Randy's information is invalid.

My opinion is that we should be aware of the hypnotherapy aspect when reviewing his information, but that does not necessarily invalidate it.





www.abovetopsecret.com...

To give your statement a little more context......



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 09:31 PM
link   
I don't trust Randy Cramer and Corey Goode since they haven't really spoken a word about the Greys.

We know from multiple researchers that there is an ongoing abduction program. The small greys are the worker bees, the large greys are the overseeers and then there's Mantis type beings that are higher up in the chain again.

Researcher professor David Jacobs and others have found that the goal of the abductions is a hybrid program and Jacobs has also found that the hybrids are integrating into our society at least since 2003 and abductees are being trained for some future event where they have to assist when the masses panic.

Why are these guys not talking about this subject? The most important question to be answered right now is what is the purpose of the hybrid program? As long as Cramer and Goode are not speaking about this, they can't be taken seriously.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 09:38 PM
link   

originally posted by: Neill887
I don't trust Randy Cramer and Corey Goode since they haven't really spoken a word about the Greys.

We know from multiple researchers that there is an ongoing abduction program. The small greys are the worker bees, the large greys are the overseeers and then there's Mantis type beings that are higher up in the chain again.

Researcher professor David Jacobs and others have found that the goal of the abductions is a hybrid program and Jacobs has also found that the hybrids are integrating into our society at least since 2003 and abductees are being trained for some future event where they have to assist when the masses panic.

Why are these guys not talking about this subject? The most important question to be answered right now is what is the purpose of the hybrid program? As long as Cramer and Goode are not speaking about this, they can't be taken seriously.


Why should any of this be taken seriously?

We know that certain people who claim to be researchers claim there is an ongoing abduction program. There is no evidence to support any of this, it is pure conjecture.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 09:55 PM
link   
a reply to: cuckooold

No it's not pure conjecture.

The current scientific explanation of the abduction phenomenon is that they are dreams/hallucination/lies.

The problem is that (serious) researchers have found that again and again the experience is pretty much the same. All over the world with people from all cultures. When the experience is the result of dreams/hallucinations/lies, we would expect quite some variety in the experiences being relayed. But there is no real variety to speak of. Not even compared to 10 or 20 years ago or with people from different cultures.

Time and time again, people are floated from their cars or their homes and they are taken THROUGH roofs, walls and closed windows. When dreaming/hallucinating/lyng, we would at least expect a sizable number of cases where windows are first opened and then people are floated out. But this does NOT happen.

Peope are then taken into a ship and this ship is always pretty much the same. The interior is the same, the seating is the same, the operation tables are the same, the instruments are the same, the procedures are the same and the aliens are the same. Again, this should not be the case when people are dreaming/hallucinating/lying. We should expect a greater variety of experiences.

Sometimes people say that experiencers see Grey aliens, because that's what our culture has taught us aliens look like. Well there's many people alive today that have grown up with Klingons, Vulcans, Ewoks and Wookies as aliens, but these aliens are never reported. It's almost without exception small greys doing procedures, large greys supervising and sometimes Mantis type beings overseeing the greys. Again this should not happen when people are dreaming/hallucinating/lying.

Also, the communication between the abductees and the aliens is always telepathic and never spoken word is used. When dreaming/hallucinating/lying, we should at least expect a sizable number of cases where communication takes place through sound and not telepathy.

Maybe you can say that the things stated above are not definitive scientific evidence, but these FACTS force us to take the abduction phenomenon very very seriously. By eliminating options you do end up with the conclusion that the experience must be real.

And don't forget that a researcher like David Jacobs has done over 1000 regressions and that he admits that regression is not really a great tool for obtainng information. He admits that you have to be very careful because it is such a questionable tool. But still he keeps finding the same basic abduction story over and over again and this story corresponds to what other researchers are finding.




top topics



 
42
<< 9  10  11    13 >>

log in

join