Clerk's office defies order; no same-sex marriage licenses

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

Isn't that another name for segregation? I don't think this is a great idea, taking into consideration how we humans tend to find faults on everything.

a reply to: Annee

Annee you post make me smile,

, I am on the same believes as you when it comes to religion and the nations laws.

I guess she was "elected" so they can't just fire her or hire more people. There's a process of how the country clerk gets their position.

Judges, clerks...these people are on ballots all the time but people never notice or care. People just vote "yes" to elect these people because they've already had the job. No one looks into the policies of these people or their job performance.

The judges and clerks in our government are as important (sometimes more so!) than the political figureheads we vote on. Precedents are set by judges and day-to-day operations inside government can be shut down by clerks and other elected government officials.

We never think about it, but we need to be paying more attention to these people.

WATCH: Dan Savage on Kentucky Clerk's Religious Double Standards

Dan Savage tackled the hypocrisy of Kentucky's renegade anti-LGBT clerk, Kim Davis', refusal to issue marriage licenses citing her religious beliefs on Tuesday night's The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Davis has been married four times and admitted in court to adultery. She has acknowledged through her attorney that she had made "major mistakes" before she was born again, according to the Associated Press. Court records show Davis has been married to her current husband twice, with a divorce and another husband in between, according to a US News & World Report story that may prompt readers to reach for a pencil and a scorecard. Davis, 48, married her first husband, Dwain Wallace, when she was 18. They divorced in 1994. Five months after divorcing her first husband, Davis gave birth to twins fathered by her third husband, Thomas McIntyre. The children were adopted by Joe Davis, who married her in 1996, divorced her, then remarried her in 2009. Read more about Joe Davis here. She is currently married to Davis, who is simultaneously her second, fourth, current and ex-husband. The one thing that hasn't changed for Davis is her job, working in the county clerk's office throughout each of her divorces. While she claims issuing a marriage license to a same-sex couple would violate "a central teaching" of the Bible, both adultery and divorce are considered grave sins according to Christian teachings.

www.advocate.com...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t


That sounds WAY too expensive and tedious.

If it's money you're concerned about, how about all the time wasted by heterosexuals in their dealings with something that was introduced later? Let's just go back in time and ban homosexuality because the majority is heterosexual and has to spend a lot of time (and time is money) to learn how to deal with homosexuality. A few decades ago there was a system in place, people would just get labeled mentally ill and get treatment, it was all done and paid for by the public.

Point being homosexuality costs society a lot of money as well, while a heterosexual doesn't get any profit by paying for something that serves the LGBT cause in any way. Why should I pay for things I don't agree with personally or get something for in return? It's only because I truly want everyone to be happy but that's just a choice, it's not an obligation.

And another point, in time I'm sure everything will be better automated and people get personalized taxes but can only get those services for which they pay. Which should work for everyone since for example gays can choose not to pay anything for causes they don't agree with, like certain christian groups.

This lady gets paid with tax money. Therefore a gay person paying taxes has the RIGHT to be issued a marriage certificate by this lady. She should DEFINITELY be fired and not only that, jailed. You are just suggesting Segregation here.

I don't agree with jail, she could at best get fired, which is still a big deal even if she appears wrong to you, people should be more considerate. Plus it would only look bad on the LGBT movement, "So you got fired huh, why?" - "Because of gays and their problems...".

The right thing to do is to offer her a resignation and a sum of money because when she took the job and the oath, the laws were different and those laws she agreed to at the time. Now there's need for change, sure but it isn't her fault in any way.

Oh yeah, gay bars don't kick you out if you are straight. So just because they advertise their gay friendliness doesn't mean they discriminate against straight people.

True, but it doesn't promote integration. Isn't it odd a group of people wants the other group of people to accept them for who/how they are yet many choose to go to gaybars instead of showing themselves in hetero/'normal' bars so that the group of people who apparently need to change can actually do that and learn how to interact normally? Because many might be able to but there are also lots who can't and if we ban gaybars, those gays will have to go some place else and mix with heterosexuals thus there'll be more integration. It might be illegal underground bars will popup for awhile with all the extremes of the gay scene but in time those will be banned as well and it'll be better for everyone.

a reply to: Annee

Darn, I guess the anti gay groups chose the wrong martyr this time, or then again, been born again Christian erase any sins the person have Right?

a reply to: Annee

Man that relationship history is VERY marred. Though I'm pretty sure that adultery is actually against the ten commandments. While there is ZERO mention of homosexuality in the commandments. Makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

One thing I'm learning from this whole thing is that I could live an incredibly sinful life, wallow in it -- get really muddy with sin and just become "born again" and have the religious community accept me.

Sounds like if you truly are sincere and repent for your sins you'll be forgiven -- so why not 'sin it up' until your death bead, eh?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

You may be right about the role of certain positions, but remember in our times of political debates fueled by religious views we are still expendable, for one position available is one hundred applying for it that will have to problem giving away marriage licenses to anybody just to have a job.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Man made religion at its finest, my friend. Chose and pick.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Annee

Darn, I guess the anti gay groups chose the wrong martyr this time, or then again, been born again Christian erase any sins the person have Right?

Yeah, that's kinda how it works. ALL IS FORGIVEN. All you gotta do is say 2 words: "I believe".

I was raised Christian. It's very hypocritical. Petty, back stabbing, gossip, judgemental, etc. I've met maybe 4 people in my whole life who I would consider genuine. They just quietly went about their business, doing good without recognition.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
One thing I'm learning from this whole thing is that I could live an incredibly sinful life, wallow in it -- get really muddy with sin and just become "born again" and have the religious community accept me.

Sounds like if you truly are sincere and repent for your sins you'll be forgiven -- so why not 'sin it up' until your death bead, eh?

That's right.

That's exactly how it works.

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979
Let's just go back in time and ban homosexuality because the majority is heterosexual and has to spend a lot of time (and time is money) to learn how to deal with homosexuality. A few decades ago there was a system in place, people would just get labeled mentally ill and get treatment, it was all done and paid for by the public.

Do you know anything about civil rights that ALL people in the US have? Homosexuals have the same rights you do. They are PEOPLE. What you're proposing goes against EVERYTHING our country stands for.

Point being homosexuality costs society a lot of money as well, while a heterosexual doesn't get any profit by paying for something that serves the LGBT cause in any way.

Homosexuality does not cost any more money that heterosexuality does. What are you talking about? There is no "profit" for supporting equal rights. This is nonsense!

Why should I pay for things I don't agree with personally or get something for in return?

It's called living in a society with OTHER PEOPLE. We pay taxes for the betterment of society, not just for a certain group.

I don't agree with jail, she could at best get fired,

She cannot get fired! She's elected.

"So you got fired huh, why?" - "Because of gays and their problems...".

Gay people aren't the ones with a problem here. Davis has the problem in that she's not doing her job.

The right thing to do is to offer her a resignation and a sum of money

She is free to resign, but she doesn't deserve any money for what she's done. That's ridiculous!

because when she took the job and the oath, the laws were different and those laws she agreed to at the time.

She doesn't get the opportunity to only follow laws that she agrees with. Do you? Laws change all the time. She's taken an oath to uphold ALL laws of the land.

Now there's need for change, sure but it isn't her fault in any way.

She is 100% responsible. It is absolutely her fault. If she can't do her job, she should step down. But she's being stubborn and will end up being heavily fined.

You don't have the first clue of what freedom and equality are, do you?

really, I imagine that the equality for women also cost a lot of money, and how much money did freeing the slaves cost??

how far would you like us to go back??

going back isn't the answer to much of anything. for every perk it would give us it would also give us disadvantages that would remind of us why were chose to move forward.

Doesn't the bible say to obey your government?

Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. - In this one instance, I actually agree with the bible.. She has for certain brought some judgement on herself! lmao

Give unto Caesar and such also, if you don't think old testament is relevant for whatever reason.

Ugh I feel nasty now, having to quote the bible... gonna go take a shower.

They just quietly went about their business, doing good without recognition.

Annee, people that find themselves spiritually are those that goes around without recognition while doing the best they can to help others, most enlightened people are the ones that you hear about it, because of deeds but never get to see them.

a reply to: Annee

Thank you i was just going to post that!!

No matter the outcome, those that support her thinking will use this as the GLBTQ+ Agenda forcing people into giving up their Freedom of Religion

“religious freedom is the freedom to believe what I believe, to have a moral code, to believe in a higher power, and to be able to guide my life that way if it doesn’t discriminate against another person’s experience.” The key being that it cannot “devalue someone else” or “take away the rights of another person

Background Information

www.outsports.com...

well, it's not over till it's over....

the GOP state Senate president has stepped into the mess....
and well, he does have some valid reasons for asking the judge to extend smith's reprieve,
they makes one wonder why the gov. won't call the into session to straighten the mess out.

RANKFORT, Ky. -- The Republican president of the Kentucky state Senate has asked a federal judge to withhold his ruling ordering a county clerk to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Republican Senate President Robert Stivers says U.S. District Judge David Bunning needs to give the state legislature time to pass a law that would exempt Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis from having to issue marriage licenses. The state legislature is not in session and won't be until January. Democratic Gov. Steve Beshear has refused to call for a special session, arguing it would waste taxpayer money for an issue that only affects one clerk.

www.wcpo.com...

For example as the laws stand now, there cannot be a marriage unless there is a women getting married...

Stivers says nearly all of Kentucky's laws governing marriage are invalid following the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in June that legalized same-sex marriage nationwide. For example, Kentucky's state law requires a couple seeking a marriage license to apply for one in the county "in which the female resides" or at another county so long as the woman applies for it.

that may be a good reason to at least call the legislation into session and at least pass a few laws so that it can be legally done but I guess the gov't feels that inconveniencing the public till january while allowing some laws to be broken is a much better option than cutting short the poor overworked state congress vacation!

but I just don't buy the religious argument she is putting forth. historically it is incorrect. parents, husbands, clergy, kings, and queens have always demanded their subjects to do things that people considered immoral and the church's standing has usually been that they should just do what they are told.

a reply to: dawnstar

This means the Kentucky republican senator is over stepping his powers, the supreme court already ruled on this, this means that is done deal and it will not go back to state or federal.

Let see what the judge do, because after all the Judges are extensions of the supreme courts and they will side with already set rulings.

This is going to be interesting, I think that the GOP senator is just trying to look good on the fundamentalist religious voters in the state.