Engaging The Fear Machine: Media Manipulation

originally posted by: Kokatsi

It's odd how I keep on bumping against people here who have such a simplified and distorted picture of NLP

Simplified? Yes, as NLP is a very complex subject, not to mention a very complex process, so yes, my response was simplified to fit the OP. Surely you can see the practicality of that? Distorted? Yes, but not by me. Rather NLP has been distorted from its original (stated) therapeutic purposes into marketing, politics, and just plain greed.

Tony Robbins does not have much to do with what I have known for decades to be NLP.

For his historical, therapeutic purposes, no, Tony Robbins has nothing to do with NLP... but in the self-help industry, for marketing, business and political purposes, Tony Robbins is at the top.

Look up John Grinder and Richard Bandler, Steve and Connirae Andreas instead, or Robert Dilts, Milton Erickson etc. It helps to do some research before pronouncing sharp judgments.

No, thank you... I will take your word for it that these are upstanding people with only the most noble purposes... and it does not change one whit that others will misuse this knowedge for less than noble -- even criminal -- purposes. But that is not the focus of the OP, and therefore not the focus of my response.

I would argue that with the advent of modern linguistics and experimental therapies, NLP or something like that was inevitable. Many technologies can be used for positive or negative goals.

And I would submit that NLP has always been; even before someone wrote down the "rules," there were charismatics who intuitively knew how to twist and manipulate the thoughts and actions of others -- for good and ill.

After reading the OP, you could have two basic kinds of reactions. One, you say that the red arrow and the shrinking people are manipulative so you develop more independent thinking and share your knowledge with those that are interested. Or start working for a company like Fox and refine techniques and say, look, a lot of folks have discovered this, let's make this stuff a little less obvious...

Given my reply, and others, there are actually several possible reactions. But to reiterate my point, I was not manipulated by the image... and I asserted that those who believe what they want -- those who let their ego get in the way of facts and truth -- are those most easily manipulated by an image.

Get my drift?

Sure, I do. Get mine?

here's a good look at fear in the media, it's satirical, but does cover some interesting facts

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
I don't know that this works too well at a population level. People have different wiring, and perceptions. Our brains activate differently, or prioritize sets of information differently. When manipulating an individual, you have to tailor your skillset for their particular vulnerabilities. If this works on people, it's that the type of psychological profile has already been vetted, as in the types of people who would watch the channel/program would tend to be... ya feel me?

I think I know what you mean. But keep in mind that humans ALSO display herd behavior under certain conditions.

Yes, we are each an individual, but we are also social critters, and our behavior is different in each mode.

a reply to: Salander

It's true, but what I see is that the herd mentality doesn't affect the majority to a considerable extent until that majority perceives their opportunities diminishing. Could Hitler have rose to power in a flourishing economy? No, of course not. In the US, we have lots of diversity and creativity, a good mix of "herd" and individuality. I think with the terrain as is, it's difficult to capture more than perhaps 40% of the population under a broad mix of beliefs and values regardless of the subtle conditioning on top of it.

a reply to: Hefficide

You never miss a nail when it needs to be hit Heff.

Red is the color of danger in nature. A warning that something is venomous or toxic. It is also the color of blood and fire. All things that we are instinctively hard wired to fear and avoid. Notice how much red is on the screen.

Conversely the color green can be used as a positive when it indicates the opposite, and yellow is neutral.

Call it the traffic light affect. These facts and figures could be correct but the color association blinds us to the facts-if every bar graph we see on the news was a neutral shade of grey then the alarm may drop. But then the graphs would be skewered and thrown completely out of proportion and instead of the viewers seeing the numbers, they'll see the bar rising and before they can view the figures, the graph disappears.

The MSM is subversive and sadly brilliant.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Hefficide
Damn I wish I had your writing skills Heff. I'd make some real threads for a change.

Social engineering is both a science, and an art form. Hypnosis, NLP, subliminals, paraliminals, supraliminals, etc. are all used liberally by media and advertising to change our perception of reality. Once a person studies these things, they start picking up on them, and it is helpful to minimize their effect, but no matter how much we study, we aren't immune. However unethical the practice may be, it's the world we live in. All we can do is be aware, and try to limit our exposure. Understanding how it works, and exposing it like you just did is the best weapon we have right now.

Yea, I agree with this post. When you start to learn the different ways that propaganda is distributed, you start to be able to recognize it a lot easier. Though one should also not get too overconfident in their propaganda techniques, because they are CONSTANTLY thinking up new ways to get you to believe propaganda.

originally posted by: Hefficide
Hello again ATS!

Over the years I've created a few threads on the subject of manipulation techniques and how they are utilized to mislead us. This morning I came across an article on Addicting Info that speaks to a specific facet of one method of manipulation - the use of misleading visual cues to distort how we will interpret and process information being provided to us.

This is a very fascinating and relevant subject because we all tend to think of ourselves as above this sort of manipulation. After all, we are evolved and educated enough to understand that our eyes can play tricks on us and that appearances can be deceiving... But, sadly, our vanity and ego plays right into the hands of those who wish to mislead us.

There are reasons why reporters and news anchors tend to be physically attractive people who are, essentially, interchangeable from one to the other as far as appearances go. Barbie and Ken read us the news because, well, we tend to trust Barbie and Ken at their word more than we trust, say, an Ernest Borgnine at his. On a very primal level, we tend to take beauty at it's word. We tend to let our guards down when our sexuality is triggered.....

One huge problem with this "conspiracy", in order for it to work you need to assume the graphic artists are "in on it." I highly, highly, highly doubt this.


NOTE: Please limit quotes to only whats necessary, thanks.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

When you start to learn the different ways that propaganda is distributed, you start to be able to recognize it a lot easier.

That's what makes it creepy and brilliant.

Propaganda and advertising is a science now, you'll find the most annoying slogans and jingles are the most effective. Nobody loved the crazy frog but we all remember how annoying it was, it's only a matter of time before Subway uses 'shake it off' as a parody.

"Our bread is freshly baked baked baked baked baked.
"We have low sugar shakes shakes shakes shakes shakes..."

a reply to: dr1234

I'm not following the point.

This is like saying that models in magazines aren't airbrushed because the photoshop guys wouldn't be in on it.

I would assume that graphics like this are done in house at all news outlets - even small newspapers. The editorial arm of the agency would have total control over the creation of visual aids.

Awesome thread. The subject matter is very important for it shows how easily people are fooled. People who watch and hear the media are constantly attacked on a gut level. It's like watching a professional wrestling match. All you see is tricks of the dog and pony show yet the ring side audience is totally taken in. I'm serious! You can tell that fans of the "good guy" would, if given the chance, shoot the "bad guy" dead! Seriously speaking, such mind-numbing programming is as old as television itself. Wall St. moguls demand advertisement presented to a third grade mentality. Everything you watch or hear is based on lies and disinformation. It's a trillion dollar enterprise and everyone is a sucker.

I was aware of it prior to the 1980 Presidential election, however the degree of it sling-shotted during that time period and got worse to the present. Some examples may be subtle and most are blatant. For example, when the media televised Bush Lite announcement of the end of hostilities in Iraq, he did so in a scripted and over-dramatized manner. The Press was on hand and ready to welcome the President after taping the plane landing on the deck of the air-carrier. He walks from the plane side by side with another pilot" wearing the same flight skins and equipment. Including his helmet as if to say "HE" landed the plane himself. Like he was ready for the post-flight briefing...lol. He did this to "announce" to the ship-crew and the world that after his sortie the bad guy was laid out on the mat for the world to see!

The King announced his message of "nothing to see here...move along" and everyone can get back to their purpose in life of "shopping" at the malls etc. My God...what we saw was "grand" yet most people bought it hook, line and sinker. I know because i popped into political chat room of social media to catch the awe-struck patrons of the average garden variety imbeciles in the cheap seats section. They were salivating with the news....lol. Life seems to be nothing more than a grand parade of hucksters and their wares.

Although this subject matter is worthy most people are either too stupid to understand and many are too lazy to figure it out. Then there are people who are beyond stupid that even if Jesus hit them in the head with a sledge-hammer of reality would still be clueless. As for Bush Lite, I know for a fact that after his stint in the Texas National Guard would not know what a MIG looks like even if he saw a image of one in a magazine. He, at that time, was probably too busy smoking dope and freebasing coc aine drinking Falstaff beer listening to the Rolling Stones with Dick Chaney and bad-mouthing his country.

Errrr...I'm sorry for digressing...Your point is more than worthy. We owe it to people like Edward Bernays and such other notable clowns for our demise. All reporting and public media is geared to this situation. Every relevant presentation of worthy public information is laced with dog and pony nonsense. You find it everywhere. From ads for children on cereal selection and public discussions of invading Iran. Also it is in every politician ad in every election regardless who they represent. Elections are nothing more than the nights at the professional wrestling matches with all the splendor of bells and whistles. It is what it is.

a reply to: Boadicea
Well, Tony Robbins still has not much to do with NLP as millions of people understand the word, no matter how he markets himself. NLP has been invented and copyrighted in the seventies in America by two people, linguist John Grinder and (then computer programmer and psychology student) Richard Bandler. They modeled several outstanding people in the field of experimental therapies, who, as you point out, had natural skills for using and even twisting language for therapeutic purposes.

In the process of describing their art of communication by methods of modern linguistics and epistemology, by necessity they also discovered how some of the same processes can be used for less wholesome goals. (However, much of them can't because the whole is always more than the sum of a few verbal techniques.) The whole thing wouldn't have been possible without Noam Chomsky's linguistic analysis.

It isn't new that business (and politics, and even some intelligence agencies) used some of the easier verbal techniques, and in fact all the language of advertising now consciously uses NLP formulae, as did President Obama as a presidential candidate in many of his speeches (in fact he is quite skilled).

You can't undo these discoveries - neither should you, it's a far better idea to educate people early enough so they manage their internal states better and also develop a bull# detector against the unwholesome use of language patterns. Which is similar to what the OP here is doing about visual manipulation.

I have a master's degree in NLP and I also taught language seminars to people about hypnotic language forms (and their undoing as well, which is called meta-modelling in NLP), I translated several books and conducted hundreds of hours of therapy sessions.

To sum it all up, first off, it is a gross oversimplification by less informed people that NLP would be a synonym of nefarious verbal manipulation, and second, Mr Robbins has precious little to do with it (though some of what he says is no doubt useful and may be in harmony with a very basic understanding of NLP).

a reply to: Boadicea
Well, Tony Robbins still has not much to do with NLP as millions of people understand the word, no matter how he markets himself. NLP has been invented and copyrighted in the seventies in America by two people, linguist John Grinder and (then computer programmer and psychology student) Richard Bandler. They modeled several outstanding people in the field of experimental therapies, who, as you point out, had natural skills for using and even twisting language for therapeutic purposes.

In the process of describing their art of communication by methods of modern linguistics and epistemology, by necessity they also discovered how some of the same processes can be used for less wholesome goals. (However, much of them can't because the whole is always more than the sum of a few verbal techniques.) The whole thing wouldn't have been possible without Noam Chomsky's linguistic analysis.

It isn't new that business (and politics, and even some intelligence agencies) used some of the easier verbal techniques, and in fact all the language of advertising now consciously uses NLP formulae, as did President Obama as a presidential candidate in many of his speeches (in fact he is quite skilled).

You can't undo these discoveries - neither should you, it's a far better idea to educate people early enough so they manage their internal states better and also develop a bull# detector against the unwholesome use of language patterns. Which is similar to what the OP here is doing about visual manipulation.

I have a master's degree in NLP and I also taught language seminars to people about hypnotic language forms (and their undoing as well, which is called meta-modelling in NLP), I translated several books and conducted hundreds of hours of therapy sessions.

To sum it all up, first off, it is a gross oversimplification by less informed people that NLP would be a synonym of nefarious verbal manipulation, and second, Mr Robbins has precious little to do with it (though some of what he says is no doubt useful and may be in harmony with a very basic understanding of NLP).

(sorry for the double post, mods pls remove one if you can)

a reply to: Kokatsi

I have a master's degree in NLP and I also taught language seminars to people about hypnotic language forms (and their undoing as well, which is called meta-modelling in NLP), I translated several books and conducted hundreds of hours of therapy sessions.

I was not aware of a masters degree in neurolinguistic programming... at least not from an accredited university. Where did you study?

To sum it all up, first off, it is a gross oversimplification by less informed people that NLP would be a synonym of nefarious verbal manipulation...

Ooooh... good thing I made the distinction between NLP for therapeutic purposes and the nefarious verbal manipulations of some, in direct response to the subject of the OP, as in nefarious verbal and visual manipulations by the media... I'd hate to be one of those less informed people making gross oversimplications.... just as much as I'd hate to be one of those
people who would ignore/deny/gloss over the obvious abuse of a legitimate therapeutic tool.

...and second, Mr Robbins has precious little to do with it (though some of what he says is no doubt useful and may be in harmony with a very basic understanding of NLP).

Hmmm... you'd better let these folks know:

4 NLP Lessons From Tony Robbins

Important Tony Robbins techniques and concepts

The Keys To Massive Success - Tony Robbins, Best NLP Trainer

Let me reiterate: I understand there are therapeutic benefits to NLP, and it can be a valuable tool for positive and proactive purposes, from counseling to parenting, education, criminal rehabilitation, and so on. But I also understand it can be abused. No need to defend or promote its responsible and beneficial practice... but likewise there is no virtue in turning a blind eye to its abuse.

Media is not only engaging in a purely fear mongering machine, such as the nuclear scare during the cold war. Which was a hoax to begin with. Western media is also engaging in a provocation activity that aims at pitching people against each other. They want you to fight against your parents, your neighbor, or whoever else for futile reasons. So for example, at this moment the completely artificially created refugee crisis in the EU is being use to create a confrontational sentiment in the society to put pro-immigrants vs anti-immigrants. They have protests and rallies in both camps, they use every pretexts to put society against itself, for the upcoming inevitable bubble burst and market crash of the year end. The idea is that while immigrants are busy fighting with anti-immigrants, power elites in Bruxelles are busy stealing, warmongering and Hitlering around.