"WE BEAT IT 2 Death lol! HAHAHA!" (note found on family's dead pomeranian)

a reply to: introvert

We could ask people who live off the land in Alaska, but their pets tend to be functional working animals. They use the dogs for a mix of transportation and security. And they need to hunt or they'll die in the midst of the long cold winters. You can't live solely off of plant matter up there. You need the high energy, high octane of animal fat year round.

Our pets of today actually grew out of working animals. Cats kept the pests out of our stored food and dogs did a variety of tasks for us. They were not teacup Chihuahuas whose only purpose was companionship.

And if you put us back on survival footing, that's where they will quickly go again. In fact, as painful as it sounds, if we were starving, the cats become food for us.

originally posted by: introvert

Many people that would be outraged at this story have no problem dropping a deer, taking a pic and then leaving it to the wolves.

Hypocrisy is the point I'm trying to address here. I don;t like what happened in this case, but I laugh because we only become outraged when it pertains to certain animals.

I see the hypocrisy you are pointing to. Personally, someone who kills just for the thrill of dominating another animal, has an odd personality.

It would make for a good thread topic all of its own.

a reply to: introvert

I respect your belief, but many in the hunting sports community would disagree.

I have been hunting for 31 years...and I can tell you without reservation that there are no hunters that I know that would agree that it's ok to kill things for pleasure.

We hunt for the meat. It keeps my family and I fed. I take no enjoyment in it...it is something we do to help ease the cost of living. The enjoyment comes from the shared time with friends.

Whatever it is that you are thinkin....rethink it.

a reply to: ketsuko

I completely agree.

My point has already been made and expanded upon by another member that said exactly what I expected them to say.

a reply to: deadcalm

Completely anecdotal and irrelevant. Thanks, but there are many people out there that hunt for fun without the need for the meat to feed families.

That's why it's called 'sport' and not survival.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

The poster was trying to find an equivalent to abortion, apparently.

He's okay with killing unborn and small animals apparently.

(Hint, I wouldn't put that on a job application)

I'm not ok with it and have said that many times. Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Thanks for the help.

originally posted by: The Vagabond
a reply to: Olivine

I wouldn't be too fast to assume it's kids. I can't tell how many fights between petty bourgeoisie psychos over toy dogs....

I can see that, but people also do inexplicable deeds. To look at this video you might think that this is some neighbour related thing, but it wasn't this woman lived nowhere near, but would pass that way en route to work in a bank.

I don't think anyone has the handle on this yet, she said she thought it a funny thing to do, and was obviously caught and brought to court, and did apologise and said she was sorry. Her father, (who has since died) was very ill at the time, but it doesn't seem that it was of any conscious connection. You can see though that it was a deliberate act, she even looks around to see if anyone is watching. It's really weird.

Well, I'm done.

A poster actually got me to leave a thread.

A damned shame about a pet, a family member.

I hope they catch the greasy bastards that did it and reciprocate in kind.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Olivine
a reply to: introvert

I have no problem with fishing, if you eat what you catch, and release the remainder. The same with hunting. You kill it and eat it...fine. Kill an animal in self-defense...necessary.

But people who kill animals for trophies, or pleasure, I'm not down with that.

With respectful disagreement,
Olivine

Many people that would be outraged at this story have no problem dropping a deer, taking a pic and then leaving it to the wolves.

Hypocrisy is the point I'm trying to address here. I don;t like what happened in this case, but I laugh because we only become outraged when it pertains to certain animals.

I see your point regarding the hypocrisy between a deer and a pet dog, life is life. BUT-the hunters I know would have taken the hypothetical deer home and fed their families with the meat, not cheesed it for the camera and left the carcass. That's not been my personal experience.

Part of the outrage is emotional-empathy, transference, whatever you want to call it. Most of us have/had pets in our lives that we have loved dearly and would have defended with all we had if they were threatened in any way. It's easier to relate to that poor little dog because they are what we accept as house pets. Go ask someone who has raised an orphaned deer their opinion of deer hunters. You may hear just as passionate a response from them as you would a dog lover over the dog who was killed.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: ketsuko

I completely agree.

My point has already been made and expanded upon by another member that said exactly what I expected them to say.

According to your twisted perception of "need." Who are you to define "need?"

Someday, you might be sorry that you held yourself in faux moral superiority to those of us who had "needs" you considered beneath you and hypocritical.

After all, I eat meat. There is little difference between whether or not I catch the fish I eat myself or buy it out of the fish case. It still costs the life of a fish. Because I go fishing on occasion, I have an acute awareness of that fact. Anyone who hunts and eats their kill also understands that anything that comes out of the meat case also cost the life of an animal.

We understand this better than anyone who simply hunts the supermarket and claims moral superiority.

We both know that in order for us to eat, something had to die, and that in order for us to continue to eat, we must treat the environment and its creatures with respect. We are predators no different than a bear who is also an omnivore.

originally posted by: Cheddarhead

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Olivine
a reply to: introvert

I have no problem with fishing, if you eat what you catch, and release the remainder. The same with hunting. You kill it and eat it...fine. Kill an animal in self-defense...necessary.

But people who kill animals for trophies, or pleasure, I'm not down with that.

With respectful disagreement,
Olivine

Many people that would be outraged at this story have no problem dropping a deer, taking a pic and then leaving it to the wolves.

Hypocrisy is the point I'm trying to address here. I don;t like what happened in this case, but I laugh because we only become outraged when it pertains to certain animals.

I see your point regarding the hypocrisy between a deer and a pet dog, life is life. BUT-the hunters I know would have taken the hypothetical deer home and fed their families with the meat, not cheesed it for the camera and left the carcass. That's not been my personal experience.

Part of the outrage is emotional-empathy,

It's the poster's logic that's flawed because it generalises between something that's killed and eaten, and something that suffered cruelty and terror...fear without need, by the hand of another, and a human while that something was a pet of someone else. That is something that humans can and do control where it can be done, or helped.
hypocrisy though is something specific, and we are all probably guilty of that in some respect or the other.
So why the need to bring up the conversational element of hypocrisy in something that was a cruel act, end of.

a reply to: smurfy

My point was actually very specific and the culmination of which was removed for whatever reason.

The overall point I was making is that while this issue is horrible and I hope those who committed this act are caught, we must realize that the value we place on life is relative and circumstantial.

So yes, we are all most likely hypocritical when it comes to the issue of the value of life.

a reply to: introvert

Thanks, but there are many people out there that hunt for fun without the need for the meat to feed families.

Those aren't hunters my sadly misguided friend...those are killers. While it is called a "sport"...anyone who doesn't eat what they kill is quite frankly not someone I would ever hunt with and neither would anyone I know. It's called RESPONSIBLE hunting. It is no different than going fishing...catching one and throwing it on the shore to suffocate and leave it there. Why would anyone want to do that? Anything I don't intend to eat get caught and released. If you actually KNEW any hunters, I think you'd find that they care a great deal about the wilderness and it's inhabitants.

Completely anecdotal and irrelevant.

I strongly disagree. But perhaps you could share with us how long you've hunted?

a reply to: Olivine

Reminds me of when I was a kid. I've been in one fist fight in my life, a couple kids at school used to brag about how they would capture neighborhood cats and dogs and then hurt them. I was walking home from school one day and saw them doing just that to a cat. The adrenaline took over and those two kids got a severe beating, one of them ended up with a life long limp in the exchange and the other lost a few teeth before some adults broke it up. The cat was stuck there with a couple broken legs so I had proof of what they were doing.

When the cops arrived they basically protected me from any charges. In my opinion those kids ended up getting off light. I try not to wish bad things on people but I'm having a hard time doing that in the case of whoever killed this dog.

originally posted by: introvert
People have been torturing and killing animals for as long as man has been around.

I wonder, what's the difference between beating a dog for amusement and killing an animal for food. They are both self-serving acts and one can not make a claim one is more moral than the other. In both instances an animal is dead.

Isn't that hypocrisy?

By the way, I do not advocate the beating and murder of dogs and I enjoy a good cheeseburger. Perhaps if the dog ended up in my cheeseburger, it would be ok to kill it then?

I go back and forth through periods of vegetarianism for just this reason. At the end of the day though most of us need to eat meat. The animal doesn't really matter in my mind, we love dogs and eat cows while in India they love cows and eat dogs. I think you simply have to draw a line between necessity or not. If you're killing an animal for food and not wasting them that's one thing, while slaughtering animals just to kill them is something else entirely.

a reply to: deadcalm

Been hunting since the first time my grandpa gave me a single shot 22. Too many times I've seen hunters kill for no purpose other than to kill and leave the animal to rot in the woods. Seen softshell turtles and squirrels nailed to trees. Seen piles of carp laying along the shore line because they are a pest to the lake.

There's a reason it's called sport. Survival is only the motivation of the few because most don't need the meat. They can get that at the store.

Do hunter's travel to Africa to go on safari because they need the zebra meat? No, it's sport.

Life is relative and only precious when we are emotionally attached. Otherwise it's fair game.

a reply to: Aazadan

I think you simply have to draw a line between necessity or not. If you're killing an animal for food and not wasting them that's one thing, while slaughtering animals just to kill them is something else entirely

I agree. It's all relative and in small ways, we are hypocrites.

That's been my point all along.

a reply to: introvert

I get where you were trying to go, but these people obviously did this for fun or to try and make someone else feel pain. There really isn't much of a comparison here.

Also, there are differences in intellect/emotional capability in some animals. Dogs are one of the only animals that look into a human's eyes for communication.

Dogs are called mans best friend for a reason.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Olivine

Reminds me of when I was a kid. I've been in one fist fight in my life, a couple kids at school used to brag about how they would capture neighborhood cats and dogs and then hurt them. I was walking home from school one day and saw them doing just that to a cat. The adrenaline took over and those two kids got a severe beating, one of them ended up with a life long limp in the exchange and the other lost a few teeth before some adults broke it up. The cat was stuck there with a couple broken legs so I had proof of what they were doing.

When the cops arrived they basically protected me from any charges. In my opinion those kids ended up getting off light. I try not to wish bad things on people but I'm having a hard time doing that in the case of whoever killed this dog.

Thank you for being a righteous young person!


After I read about today's atrocious act, I had a quick talk with my son. He is a fine, caring young adult, but I felt the need to emphasize the following to him.

• That if he ever was around "friends" or acquaintances that talked about committing any type of cruelty, that he damn well better step up and let them know that behavior was unacceptable.
  
• Looking the other way or doing nothing is not an option.
  

(friends is in quotes because I don't think any of his current friends are creeps)

He was in total agreement, and our conversation drifted to other great topics for more 20 minutes. (a minor miracle when dealing with an 18-year-old, lol.)

a reply to: Olivine

fallen angels are crafty fuks- much of this is all designed to turn one another against each other loose faith and trust with each other- Why even put it in the news? Just more silent weapon for quiet spiritual war. Psyops and social engineering

You have heard the saying " If it bleeds it leads" right?

You all will have to dig deep to deal with more to come.. because it will be coming with more intensity and frequency---don't let the sick stick.