Remember kids...nothing escapes a black hole..

a reply to: Choice777

Dont forget the word "theoretically" or the words "according to some models".

originally posted by: Gothmog

The curious thing about the burst of energy constantly flowing from the center of the supermassive black holes at the center of all galaxies , is that the energy expelled would have to be traveling at greater than light speed to break out.

Maybe the black hole has tiny moments on inactivity or partial gravitational power loss and matter just manages to escape, that would explain gamma ray bursts....maybe there's a limit to the singularity's capacity and then it's like hitting a ''rev limiter'' caused by some physics effect and it revs down just for 1 ns and stuff escapes.

Maybe its like lightning. Lightning looks like it goes from the sky to the ground, but really goes from the ground to the sky.

Maybe the stuff seen spewing upwards out of the black hole is really falling into it and not out...

Dun dun dun...

originally posted by: Choice777

originally posted by: Gothmog

The curious thing about the burst of energy constantly flowing from the center of the supermassive black holes at the center of all galaxies , is that the energy expelled would have to be traveling at greater than light speed to break out.

Maybe the black hole has tiny moments on inactivity or partial gravitational power loss and matter just manages to escape, that would explain gamma ray bursts....maybe there's a limit to the singularity's capacity and then it's like hitting a ''rev limiter'' caused by some physics effect and it revs down just for 1 ns and stuff escapes.

Hard to say as no nuclear structure nor atomic or subatomic particles exist within a black hole. Only information of that mass .

originally posted by: Choice777
So basically the black hole acts like a big agitator that messes everything up. Like a runaway blender. So it means some stuff gets a slingshot effect and actually gets thrown far away, as far as the other side of the galaxy.

Do we know what it is like when fundamental nuclear forces are being released into space?
If scientist could isolate signature of weak or strong force being in jet stream would it be valid to ask? Your opinion board?



D0.

originally posted by: Choice777

originally posted by: Gothmog

The curious thing about the burst of energy constantly flowing from the center of the supermassive black holes at the center of all galaxies , is that the energy expelled would have to be traveling at greater than light speed to break out.

Maybe the black hole has tiny moments on inactivity or partial gravitational power loss and matter just manages to escape, that would explain gamma ray bursts....maybe there's a limit to the singularity's capacity and then it's like hitting a ''rev limiter'' caused by some physics effect and it revs down just for 1 ns and stuff escapes.

You're missing the point of where these energy and gas releases are coming from. The idea is that they are not being emitted by the black hole itself -- at least not from the singularity, or from within the even horizon. This energy and gas is coming from the stuff around the black hole.

As I mentioned, the stuff orbiting the black hole is NOT the same stuff that has no possibility to escape the gravity; i.e., it is not the stuff that has crossed the event horizon. The idea is that this energy and gas emanates from this stuff that orbits the black hole, mainly because it orbits at a high speed.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

So gamma ray burst dont originate from the actual hole past the event horizon ?

-----
According to the laws of physics, the speed of light is a fundamental barrier that cannot be broken - nothing is supposed to be able to travel faster than it.
So astronomers were left baffled when they spotted powerful flashes of energy bursting out from the heart of a supermassive black hole at the centre of a galaxy 260 million light years from Earth.
Measurements of this gamma ray 'lightning' showed it was travelling across the event horizon - the boundary where nothing can escape the intense gravity of the black hole - at rates that appeared to be faster than the speed of light.

www.dailymail.co.uk...


What about hawking radiation ?
Someone asked on yahoo answers if it's faster than light if it escapes. And this is the answer it got:

----

No. In quantum mechanics there is something called the uncertainty principle and one form of it is:
dE*dt = h
"h" is a constant and dE is the minimum uncertainty in a particle's energy that can exist for a time dt. According to quantum field theory, ordinary space is filled with so called vacuum fluctuations that produce pairs of photons at one event which then recombine at another. This violates energy conservation but if the energy dE exists for less than the time h/dE then no physical law is violated. So strict energy conservation applies in the large scale but is continuously being violated on the small scale. The space outside the black hole is just ordinary space and so these sorts of photon pairs are being produced constantly.
------

So what ? There is some sort of quantum tunneling between the inside and outside of a black hole ?
How does hawking radiation ''appear'' to escape ? Or is it just created right next to the event horizon...Still....why doesn't it go into the black hole.
i think there's just too much bad scientific work being covered up with broad brushes....nothing escapes...except this....and this....and....oh #it we don't know #.

originally posted by: Gothmog
Only information of that mass .

How is that information stored ? With ''god-bytes'' or what ? There has to be a carrier or something. Even so, a black hole would be a mother of all archivers.

originally posted by: Choice777

originally posted by: Gothmog
Only information of that mass .

How is that information stored ? With ''god-bytes'' or what ? There has to be a carrier or something. Even so, a black hole would be a mother of all archivers.

Stored ? or held in by the supermassive gravity inside the black hole. And it is a gravity well and not a hole at all (I made a funny).The thought is when you completely "destroy?" an object with mass all that is left is the information that made up that object.

Suns consume ... and black holes eject???? NO WAY!!!

But that would be completely backwards to what we are told!!! Surely this world would never try teach us things which are backwards (MASSIVE sarcasm).

originally posted by: Choice777
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

So gamma ray burst dont originate from the actual hole past the event horizon ?

-----
According to the laws of physics, the speed of light is a fundamental barrier that cannot be broken - nothing is supposed to be able to travel faster than it.
So astronomers were left baffled when they spotted powerful flashes of energy bursting out from the heart of a supermassive black hole at the centre of a galaxy 260 million light years from Earth.
Measurements of this gamma ray 'lightning' showed it was travelling across the event horizon - the boundary where nothing can escape the intense gravity of the black hole - at rates that appeared to be faster than the speed of light.

www.dailymail.co.uk...


What about hawking radiation ?
Someone asked on yahoo answers if it's faster than light if it escapes. And this is the answer it got:

----

No. In quantum mechanics there is something called the uncertainty principle and one form of it is:
dE*dt = h
"h" is a constant and dE is the minimum uncertainty in a particle's energy that can exist for a time dt. According to quantum field theory, ordinary space is filled with so called vacuum fluctuations that produce pairs of photons at one event which then recombine at another. This violates energy conservation but if the energy dE exists for less than the time h/dE then no physical law is violated. So strict energy conservation applies in the large scale but is continuously being violated on the small scale. The space outside the black hole is just ordinary space and so these sorts of photon pairs are being produced constantly.
------

So what ? There is some sort of quantum tunneling between the inside and outside of a black hole ?
How does hawking radiation ''appear'' to escape ? Or is it just created right next to the event horizon...Still....why doesn't it go into the black hole.
i think there's just too much bad scientific work being covered up with broad brushes....nothing escapes...except this....and this....and....oh #it we don't know #.

ROFL. That is what happens when you get your science news from dailymail.

Original paper: arxiv.org...

Nowhere does it imply any faster than light or escape from inside event horizon scenarios.

Instead it proposes an additional mechanism to extend the existing jet model.

We suggest that the emission is associated with pulsar-like particle acceleration by the electric field across a magnetospheric gap at the base of the radio jet.

a reply to: SONOFTHEMORNING

???

a reply to: moebius

Hold on...we have a black hole...does something escape from its event horizon or not ? Something like hawking radiation or gamma ray bursts ?

originally posted by: Choice777
a reply to: moebius

Hold on...we have a black hole...does something escape from its event horizon or not ? Something like hawking radiation or gamma ray bursts ?

Gamma ray bursts do not come from inside the black hole's event horizon. The bursts are energy that is released due to rapidly rotating material outside the event horizon.

A simplified explanation of Hawking Radiation is that two entangled virtual particles (a particle and its antiparticle) get created just outside the event horizon of the black hole. One of the two entangled particles falls into the black hole's event horizon, while the other does not. Since a net total energy of "zero" must be preserved between the particle and antiparticle, the one that fell into the black hole must have negative energy, thus it takes away from the total energy of the black hole -- which would appear to an outside observer measuring the black hole's total; energy that the black hole has radiated away.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Choice777
a reply to: moebius

Hold on...we have a black hole...does something escape from its event horizon or not ? Something like hawking radiation or gamma ray bursts ?

Gamma ray bursts do not come from inside the black hole's event horizon. The bursts are energy that is released due to rapidly rotating material outside the event horizon.

A simplified explanation of Hawking Radiation is that two entangled virtual What kind of virtual are we talking here ? imaginary or virtual in the real world ?particles (a particle and its antiparticle) get createdwhy created? why doesn't a kg of pure gold get created ? why exactly there ? just outsidehow come they don't both fall into the black hole past the horizon ? the event horizon of the black hole. One of the two entangled particles falls into the black hole's event horizon, while the other does notagain, why would one particle or one anything have enough energy/force to push against a black hole ? or not push against but heck ignore a black hole ?!?. Since a net total energy of "zero" must be preserved between the particle and antiparticlewho knows, this is like what ? nm from a horizon, how do we know such rules still apply ?, the one that fell into the black hole must have negative energy, thus it takes away from the total energy of the black hole -- which would appear to an outside observer measuring the black hole's total; energy that the black hole has radiated away.so it's theoretical, nobody has ever , cause its freacking impossible without some insanely advanced mounstruos equipment, managed to measure a black hole's energy or missing energy. i.e. mobody has ever obseerved hawking radiation escape. I doubt we could actually measure a stream of particles escaping from just near the event horizon, as if they could or should be able to do that from so close while normal matter get obliterated.

But wait...there's more insanity..for free of course..
Black holes dont exist
From yours truly mad scientist Hawking himself
news.nationalgeographic.com...

So It's all a guessing game ..that would be okay...what makes it chronically illegal and immoral is that these very scientists are the ones that laugh at paranormal event and fringe science.
What's separating their fringe science from others ? A printed diploma and maybe some superior maths skills.
So they dont know if black holes exist, cant prove or measure or observe hawking radiation, nothing escapes a black hole, oh but wait something does, oh no wait, we changed our minds again, oh no wait we changes our minds again..we dont know # for sure.

While they make up their minds about even the basics, maybe they sould just say ''hey folks we're just freacking messing with you ,we're just stalling to get more funds to pay our bills, just like everyone.
Why would we come with a equation for antigravity or warp....that would be the end of science funding, everyone would just take a hike of this rock.


A quote from this article....no event horizons folks
''Hawking's reasoning against event horizons also seems to eliminate so-called firewalls, which are searing zones of intense radiation that some scientists recently (and controversially) suggested may exist at or near event horizons.''
Seems to me someone is updating his ''theory'' out of ego to kick others in the balls and keep them down ''oh no you're not trampling over my precious black holes, if anyone is going to it'll be me and only me''.
Wasn't there a saying : a theory isn't dead until it's creator dies ? Or goes unchallenged ?
Basically entire generations of scientists are trained in schools that a or b or c is a law or known effect, only for it all to be sugar coated lies aka ''ooops we changed our minds....cause ...stuff changes''.
Now if black holes are what they are, what else have we possibly, unwillingly let's give them that, been lied about ?

a reply to: Choice777

nothing escapes...except this....and this....and....oh #it we don't know #.

YEP....Now try explaining this to the people who think they know.....Good luck!

We have not an effing clue what a black hole is/does/etc....NOT AN EFFING CLUE!!!! This is not a movie and we have no way of knowing anything but from a distance...And even that is an absolute stretch....People can talk about speed of light and gravity all they want, is that information accurate in a black hole? How about the super massive black hole? Is there an actual difference? Do we really know? NOPE....

a reply to: Choice777

and

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
YEP....Now try explaining this to the people who think they know.....Good luck!

We have not an effing clue what a black hole is/does/etc....NOT AN EFFING CLUE!!!! This is not a movie and we have no way of knowing anything but from a distance...And even that is an absolute stretch

Well, yeah...I'm stating what the leading theories say -- just like the the question in the OP is wondering how the article jibes with the leading theories that say "nothing can escape a black hole".

I mean, we are all talking about theoretical stuff here, both what was asked in the OP and my responses to it. I'm not really sure how else to discuss a black hole besides talking about what science thinks it knows about a black hole.


By the way, I said it was a "simplified" explanation for Hawking's ideas about Hawking Radiation. That's why there is a lot of the detail left out -- i.e., to make the explanation simplified (able to be generally understood without providing a wall of text that many people would just skip over because "tl;dr").

originally posted by: Choice777
Except enough matter to form whole star systems.
www.dailymail.co.uk... es-grow.html

''
The central black hole in an elliptical galaxy shoots out hot jets of gas that form clouds that envelope a galaxy, which researchers compared to our Earth's atmosphere.
This gas cools as it falls back into the centre, eventually reaching a temperature where it can 'clump together' and form stars.

''

yeah, a black hole is fun.
Formed by a calculations using only one observed force, gravity, ignoring electricity and magnetism completely.

Gravity is fun as well, at least if you read about curved space in connection with time.
My problem with Einstein's thoughts is that space is dimensional a time is not.
Time has no past and no future only the moment. Time is not a physical entity like electric and magnetic fields.
Space expends in all directions and every point in space has it's own "time". The only thing that connects, is the EM interaction, which gives the impression of time.
Time is actually nothing more then counting and comparing something that changes.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Not saying anything you said nor posted is wrong buddy! Not one bit....They are all good theories and much better than I could come up with...

All I am saying is the thread title is "remember kids....Nothing escapes a black hole"....We discussed a few theories early on that didn't make any sense until you posted your later ones that held more true to me....I was just saying it really didn't seem as we know anything about them and realistically even with good theories still don't..

Again, not calling you wrong and never did....Sorry if I came off that way to you, I respect your replies....

a reply to: Choice777

What's separating their fringe science from others ? A printed diploma and maybe some superior maths skills.

not the skills !!!