I am going to do a profile on some french special forces in this post and fell free to add more info. The purpose of this thread is to get people to respect each special forces group for there special characteristics, weapons,, history, etc okay first the GIGN. GIGN stands for national gendarmes intervention group, it is France's principle counter-terrorist unit. It was created in 1974 and unlike most of France's special forces units which are controlled by the ministry of defence it is controlled by France's police force. GIGN commando's are trained in scuba diving, sniping, parachuting, and explosives. It reportly takes three years before a gendarme is considered a full fledge operator. Any prospective member must have had three years in the regular genderme, with the majority coming from the riot control teams. Upon selection he is then sent to boot camp for a diffiecult selection phase. This involves a commando style obstacle course, an escape and evasion drill, and such other tests. Finally, a shooting test is given to determine the marksmanship abilities. For the 10% who make it through this phase they are sent on to two months of further training in which they are schooled in basic markmanship (GIGN style), and continued physical training. In the third month , the recruit is issued his personal weapons and given instruction in long-range shooting. At the end of the 6th month the recruit is sent to operate with an actual GIGN unit in the field. Here he is taught the most advanced techniques of suspect apprehenison, riot suppression, VIP protection and other similar duties.

Did you know that the GIGN always shoots people in the leg?They are laughed on buy some (SAS and others),but they cross-train and hope to learn some of their legendary marksmen skills. Shooting someone in the leg is harder than killing someone.

To me,the Spetsnaz is the best trained special force,their discipline and spirit is unmatched,and their skills are also superior to most western forces. You get smacked in the face if you do anything wrong while training in the spetsnaz.

spetnaz are awesome they definately have some of or the hardest training in the world, know what I would like to see navy seals VS Spetnaz in a wargame that would be cool!

[edit on 29-12-2004 by blue cell]

Navy seals would be walloped. The next best thing besides Russia is Israel, its surprising how good their military is given the size of their country.

Oh B.S. at its finest, where do you people come from? Navy SEALS would be "whupped?" As if any of you know REALLY how any of those forces actually train. No one even knows how the Army Delta Force trains and they are some of the absolute best. SEALS are also amongst the best. So are Spetznaz. Both are very legendary. To say that one would "whup" the other is ignorance at its finest.

People say things like, "Oh, in Spetsnaz training, they make you do calisthenics in sub-zero degree weather in a T-shirt....yada yada...." in Marine Corps Mountain Warfare training, they make you take plunges into ice-water holes in the freezing weather, and that is just Mountain Warfare Training....it ain't Recon training.

Humans are humans. And hard-asses are hard-asses. Russian or American or British, all Special Forces troops are hard as hell usually and greatly respect one another. There was even one Spetsnaz troop (formerly Spetsnaz) in the Marines Corps over in Iraq right now.

So I mean they all are very tough guys, and all have their own special skills and abilities.

Hell, even the French Foreign Legion, which is trained by the French, has some real hard-asses in it (though most of them are not French, hence the term "Foreign Legion")

But I mean stop with this "So-so force" would "whup" "so-so force" type of stuff.

[edit on 30-12-2004 by Broadsword20068]

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Did you know that the GIGN always shoots people in the leg?They are laughed on buy some (SAS and others),but they cross-train and hope to learn some of their legendary marksmen skills. Shooting someone in the leg is harder than killing someone.

I'd say shooting someone in the leg even is smarter than killing someone because that way, you can still get information. It all depends on the situation though. I don't think someone in the GIGN would hesitate to kill someone if he would risk someones life by just shooting someone in the leg.

Broad,You are pro-american,i can see that. In the spetsnaz discipline is a lot higher. You actually get smacked in the face for doing something wrong while in the seals or delta force, all you get is some yelling. It is common knowledge that the spetsnaz is better trained.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Broad,You are pro-american,i can see that. In the spetsnaz discipline is a lot higher. You actually get smacked in the face for doing something wrong while in the seals or delta force, all you get is some yelling. It is common knowledge that the spetsnaz is better trained.

They are better trained for thier type of mission, broad is correct in his summary that all SF should be treated equal.
They all preform diffrent jobs and missions.
Take one of the oldest rivalries SEAL VS SBS.
Many say one is better but one must know that both serve diffrent jobs.
I mean not so long ago the SEAL's didnt have a CT team like the SBS but the SBS didnt have the newest equipment to work with.
Both teams are great and its all matters of opinion if one is better than the other.
Remember all SF units cross train and get better, the SBS and the SEAL's learned quite a lot from each other.
Even at the cost of lives which is the bad bit...

Almost forgot to add, Different special forces train for different missions,for example the SAS cannot be compared to the Navy Seals because they did different things. However,for hostage rescue,I can safely say SAS is the best,the way they infiltrated the Israeli embassy was very well planned,and hostage rescue is one of the most important counter-terrorism must-have skills.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Almost forgot to add, Different special forces train for different missions,for example the SAS cannot be compared to the Navy Seals because they did different things. However,for hostage rescue,I can safely say SAS is the best,the way they infiltrated the Israeli embassy was very well planned,and hostage rescue is one of the most important counter-terrorism must-have skills.

I have been reading , and still am , a book about the SBS. Now the SBS member had a friend in the SAS who actually took part in that operation.
Want to hear what happened?
Well apart from one member being stuck just above the window duh to a rope screw up the SAS chap landed on the floor below the floor the rest of the team was assualting. So on his own he decided to clear that floor, smashed through the window went to fire his rifle and guess what a misfire! Quick as an oldwesterner he drew his pistol and double tapped the tango.
They where lucky , it was a great planning and execution but there was some fk ups along the way.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
In the spetsnaz discipline is a lot higher. You actually get smacked in the face for doing something wrong while in the seals or delta force, all you get is some yelling. It is common knowledge that the spetsnaz is better trained.

Do you think in war getting smacked serve some greater purpose than yelling? If you havent noticed in Russian army, not spetnaz bullying is everyday thing, meaning ive seen stuff where people are put in lines and general beat and kick people for fun, is that discipline? How the hell can you be better if you dont respect your own comrades? Also far as i know most important thing about special forces is group chemistry as in all other groups too, if you can be friend with someone doesnt necessery decrease your effiency. In the end, its inviduals that respond differently to pressures they are put in, and i wouldnt say getting smacked around make me any more disciplined than yelled. By beating you surely get out people who doesnt belong there, but those shouldnt even be in army on first place.

Beating increases anger and draws the group together, same with yelling or just being nasty to the recruits.
Ever wondered why the instructors are bad 2 you?

First off, NO ONE knows how Delta Force trains. That is classified. Literally. If anyone tells you they know how Delta trains, they're lying.

Second, you cannot compare SEALS and Army Special Forces (remember THE Special Forces of the Army are a seperate Special Operations Force; others are Army Rangers, Delta Force, SEALS, Air Force Pararescue, etc....) with Spetsnaz. How is it "common knowledge" one is better??

Army Special Forces are not all trained the same. They specialize in dfferent forms of terrain. There are mountain warfare Special Forces, jungle warfare Special Forces, desert warfare Special Forces, etc......I believe the same may apply to the SEALS. So naturally, if you pit desert experts against mountain experts in Siberia, the mountain experts win; if you pit mountain SEALS or Mountain Special Forces against Mountain Spetsnaz, then no one knows who wins.

And of course I'm pro-American; it's like it's a sin to be prideful to be an American these days; pro-American doesn't mean I think everyone else is a loser.

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
First off, NO ONE knows how Delta Force trains. That is classified. Literally. If anyone tells you they know how Delta trains, they're lying.

Same with the SBS , the writer of my book gives a brief outline of some of the events in training but not all.

Second, you cannot compare SEALS and Army Special Forces (remember THE Special Forces of the Army are a seperate Special Operations Force; others are Army Rangers, Delta Force, SEALS, Air Force Pararescue, etc....) with Spetsnaz. How is it "common knowledge" one is better??

BTW there is a naval spetnaz or so one of the russian memebers was saying.

Army Special Forces are not all trained the same. They specialize in dfferent forms of terrain. There are mountain warfare Special Forces, jungle warfare Special Forces, desert warfare Special Forces, etc......I believe the same may apply to the SEALS. So naturally, if you pit desert experts against mountain experts in Siberia, the mountain experts win; if you pit mountain SEALS or Mountain Special Forces against Mountain Spetsnaz, then no one knows who wins.

BTW all SF have training in those terrains, its just they dont have as much and it really depends on the calibre of the men.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Beating increases anger and draws the group together, same with yelling or just being nasty to the recruits.
Ever wondered why the instructors are bad 2 you?

Theres dozens of other ways to make people feel miserable instead direct yelling or beating, also Russia has a little different set of human rights in mind than most western countrys. So its not so suprising why someone somehow see it so strong way to get discipline. One example for making group discipline is that one does wrong whole group have to suffer, instead beating invidual. And yes armys idea is to make you take a lot of # and live with it, still i dont see how Spetnaz does this best, expect soldiers got less civil rights in general, so conditions to western people seem a lot tougher.

Originally posted by Observer83
Theres dozens of other ways to make people feel miserable instead direct yelling or beating, also Russia has a little different set of human rights in mind than most western countrys. So its not so suprising why someone somehow see it so strong way to get discipline. One example for making group discipline is that one does wrong whole group have to suffer, instead beating invidual. And yes armys idea is to make you take a lot of # and live with it, still i dont see how Spetnaz does this best, expect soldiers got less civil rights in general, so conditions to western people seem a lot tougher.

Yes thier are but they dont just beat one person all of the time.
Well many see them as the best because they not only get beaten but pretty much are put through some scary stuff.
Like being offered the chance to jump a 3 foot gap , with a man on your back and the pit has spikes and razor wire in it.
Like the SBS never get snakes thrown at them when they enter a room or get rats put in their boots.
Still i think SBS and SEAL style teams are better, the stuff they have to do is...frightning to me.

I don't believe Spetznatz are/were something special. Yes, the training was extremely tough, but remeber, that they were conscripts (I don't know if they still are). Their served only 2 years which ,I think , is not enough to be "the best of the best". They were also quite numerous (at least during cold war) so I don't think even the Red Army was able to maintain quality simillar to Delta Force or SAS.

Originally posted by longbow
I don't believe Spetznatz are/were something special. Yes, the training was extremely tough, but remeber, that they were conscripts (I don't know if they still are). Their served only 2 years which ,I think , is not enough to be "the best of the best". They were also quite numerous (at least during cold war) so I don't think even the Red Army was able to maintain quality simillar to Delta Force or SAS.

They still exist , but i believe that their was a sort of ranger class spetnaz, you know like a training section where they trained while operateing as an actual force.

Sorry chaps. You is all wrong. The Special Air Service are the best of the best, are second to none - whoever - anywhere in the world. Period!

1941 - David Stirling created the SAS. A selection of volunteers taken from just about anybody who wanted to join, trained for a few months under the most ardous of desert conditions, then unleashed on the unsuspecting German and Italian forces. The Special Air Service did more damage to enemy aircraft, airfields, personnel, docks and fuel dumps that was out of all proportion to their size. Helped win desert war. Fact. 1-0 SAS.

1945 - SAS disbanded. Reformed for Malayan emergency as Malaysian Scouts. Formed 'C' (Rhodesian) Sqn, 22 SAS. Helped beat Communist insurgents. Fact. 2-0 SAS.

1950/56 - SAS undertook security op's against insurgents round the globe. Fact. 3-0 SAS.

Then came Dhofar (1st campaign) Fact. 4-0 SAS.
Borneo. Fact. 5-0 SAS.
Vietnam - Australian/New Zealand & Brit SAS heavily involved. Were winning hearts & minds in their TAOR's but were withdrawn at US request.We'll call that 5-1 SAS.

Dhofar Province - Oman. British Army Training Team (22 SAS) took on the Adoo during the period 1960 - 76. Won that as well. 6-1 SAS.

1970 - 1978 (ish) 'C' (Rhodesian) Sqn, 22 SAS help Selous Scouts destroy loads of tango's in civil war. Not counting that because 'C' Sqn was written out of British army's orbat because of Iain Smith's declaration of UDI.

1967-2000. Lots of high scores in N. Ireland. We'll call that 10-1 SAS.

Iranian embassy siege 1980. Lots of dead tango's. Score now 11-1 SAS.

Falklands 1982. We won that as well. 12-1 SAS.

The 80's were a fantastic time for SAS/SBS. Not so good for the US SF was it? Something to do with Tehran and embassy hostages. SAS offered help but 'know-it-all' yanks had to go and fcku it up, then blamed it on sand in aircraft engines and mechanical defects. What a bunch of tossers!

Since then, the SAS have been called apon by most countries around the globe, to help traing CRW or HR teams. We have the experts. Our boys have been doing it longer than anybody else.

To say that the SAS are better than all the rest of SF is simply stating the obvious.

"Go, as a Pilgrim, and seek out Danger,
Far from the comfort and well lit avenues of life;
Pit your very soul against the unknown and seek stimulation in the company of the Brave;
Experience cold and hunger, heat and thirst and survive to see another challenge and another dawn.

Only then, will you be at peace with yourself and be able to know and to say, 'I looked down the farthest side of the mountain and, fulfilled and understanding all, and truely content that I lived a full life that was of my own choice';

We are the Pilgrims, Master
We shall go always a little further
It may be beyond that last blue mountain, barr'd with snow
Across that angry or that glimmering sea".