Does anyone have info on the operations of USMC Recon and Force Recon operations? They must have done a lot considering US Marines are already a step up from regular ground forces and if US marines are already so good I'm just wandering how good their Recon units must be.

Originally posted by rogue1
lol, the Spetznaz are sooo elite . So does that explain why they botch every hostage rescue they attempt to carry out. Moscow Theater siege and Beslan to name a few.
As for discipline being higher, what does getting smacked in the face have anything to do with it ? That's just a lack of discipline.
Let's face it every training mission requires a huge amount of discipline just to come out unscathed.

All the Spetsnaz really are, are glorified paratroopers. If an even number of Spetznaz fought an even number of Chechan rebels, I would put my money on the Chechans. Besdies didn't antire Spetznaz batalion get wiped out in the 80's in Afghanistan. They sound very elite

Please take your genital size compition to chat....not wanted here.

Originally posted by D
Does anyone have info on the operations of USMC Recon and Force Recon operations? They must have done a lot considering US Marines are already a step up from regular ground forces and if US marines are already so good I'm just wandering how good their Recon units must be.

Force reacon mainly do...reacon...as the name suggests.
They do basically everything the SBS does but slightly diffrent.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by rogue1
lol, the Spetznaz are sooo elite . So does that explain why they botch every hostage rescue they attempt to carry out. Moscow Theater siege and Beslan to name a few.
As for discipline being higher, what does getting smacked in the face have anything to do with it ? That's just a lack of discipline.
Let's face it every training mission requires a huge amount of discipline just to come out unscathed.

All the Spetsnaz really are, are glorified paratroopers. If an even number of Spetznaz fought an even number of Chechan rebels, I would put my money on the Chechans. Besdies didn't antire Spetznaz batalion get wiped out in the 80's in Afghanistan. They sound very elite

Please take your genital size compition to chat....not wanted here.

get over yourself, I was just responding to some people who think the Spetznaz are the best. Simple as that. Oh yeah was I even talking to you

Originally posted by rogue1


get over yourself, I was just responding to some people who think the Spetznaz are the best. Simple as that. Oh yeah was I even talking to you

Well you're in a public forum and everyone can see your comments so everyone can respond to your comments. You had a go at my post before. Whats the matter, can't handle someone responding to one of your posts?

Originally posted by D

Originally posted by rogue1


get over yourself, I was just responding to some people who think the Spetznaz are the best. Simple as that. Oh yeah was I even talking to you

Well you're in a public forum and everyone can see your comments so everyone can respond to your comments. You had a go at my post before. Whats the matter, can't handle someone responding to one of your posts?

gawdd, I'm dealing with 12 year olds.
I am sad, why ? Because the quality of threads in this forum has dropped over the last 6 months. All we have now is kids putting forward there own opinions without any facts. Very Sad

Yes, I did have a go at you before because you were expousing your opinion as fact when it wasn't. So to sum it up, you were wrong and I corrected you. If you and your friend want to get upset over it, then too bad, I don't care. As long as the BS is exposed.

As fact? And where do you get your facts? I backed mine up, you just keep spouting out that everyone's opinion is bs when you don't back up any of what you're saying with facts. You haven't posted any links to your arguments you haven't referred to any news sources.

You hypocrite.

And saying we're 12 year olds? Well, that's the sign of your maturity level when you need to assume and attacks people's age. And the quality of the forums has gone down has it? Well you haven't exactly made it much better with your trolling and with your 200 so points? Shows you haven't exactly contributed much to this board.

And I was wrong and you corrected me? Who do you think you are? If you were in the armed forces of either the US or UK and have seen combat in Afghanistan and you were in the Tora Bora then you would have every right to correct me. But attacking me without backing any of it up other than saying "I'm correcting you" and "that's BS" well, thats not much to go on then. So don't be so damn hypocritical when you say that we're "kids" who don't back what we say with facts. Give me links, give me news stories, and when you learn to calm down a bit, and when you learn not to be so self-righteous and hypocritical then come back to the board.

[edit on 24/1/05 by D]

Originally posted by rogue1


get over yourself, I was just responding to some people who think the Spetznaz are the best. Simple as that. Oh yeah was I even talking to you

Spetnaz are ONE OF the best, look back a few pages also this is a co-operative thread by me AND bluecell so in effect YOU ARE TALKING TO ME!
Also get over myself?
Are you trying to say you've watched me in the shower or something?
Also if you have nothing that helps the thread then dont post.
Might i add D is correct you are a hypocrit.
Might i add there is no best special forces.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by rogue1


get over yourself, I was just responding to some people who think the Spetznaz are the best. Simple as that. Oh yeah was I even talking to you

Spetnaz are ONE OF the best, look back a few pages also this is a co-operative thread by me AND bluecell so in effect YOU ARE TALKING TO ME!
Also get over myself?
Are you trying to say you've watched me in the shower or something?
Also if you have nothing that helps the thread then dont post.
Might i add D is correct you are a hypocrit.
Might i add there is no best special forces.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by devilwasp]

, you lost your credibility when you claimed that your fellow cadets could hit a 6 inch target at 600m with iron sights.

Like I said kiddies, you can sorta tell by the quality of the retorts

Originally posted by rogue1
, you lost your credibility when you claimed that your fellow cadets could hit a 6 inch target at 600m with iron sights.

If you knew about rifles you would know its easy to hit a target from 600 metres with a 7.62 round.
Also have you fired with iron sites or do you fire with a SUSAT or some other aid.
Want me to get the score cards? Might take a few weeks from head quarters but i can get them....
Also the iron sites

Like I said kiddies, you can sorta tell by the quality of the retorts

Where as you have no credibility to start.
Saying that spetnaz is crap bu even ex special forces believe they are hard.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by rogue1
, you lost your credibility when you claimed that your fellow cadets could hit a 6 inch target at 600m with iron sights.

If you knew about rifles you would know its easy to hit a target from 600 metres with a 7.62 round.
Also have you fired with iron sites or do you fire with a SUSAT or some other aid.
Want me to get the score cards? Might take a few weeks from head quarters but i can get them....

Oh, It's easy to hit a headsized target at 600m with iron sights. I dare say they would be a majority of people who disagree with you. You cadets shoot to higher standards than the US MArine Scout/Snipers. You must be reaaaalllllly gooood
Also the iron sites

Where as you have no credibility to start.
Saying that spetnaz is crap bu even ex special forces believe they are hard.

Ah yes, of course the mysterious ' ex-SF's ', do they tell you this through telepathy ?

Ah yes of course the 'mysterious' ex SF's do they tell this through telepathy?

Maybe they had special intelligence on their training also spetnaz were there enemys and when your in SF you learn to respect your enemys.

Originally posted by rogue1
Oh, It's easy to hit a headsized target at 600m with iron sights. I dare say they would be a majority of people who disagree with you. You cadets shoot to higher standards than the US MArine Scout/Snipers. You must be reaaaalllllly gooood
Also the iron sites

Is that why iron sites on rifles have a 500 range setting? These cadets are fireing sniper rifles.
Also marine core snipers can shoot like that , how do you think they can do amazeing shots like the 1000+ shot?
These cadets have trained for YEARS.

Ah yes, of course the mysterious ' ex-SF's ', do they tell you this through telepathy ?

Nope through books, tv and interviews.

Don't bother with him devilwasp. He's already lost the argument. He hasn't responded to any of my arguements or checked out my links when he asks for them. The only thing he can do is say that we're "12 year olds". Just put him on your ignore list or something.

Anyway decided to do a profile of the Dutch SF/Counterterrorists unit:

Name: Bijzondere Bijstands Eenheid (or the BBE) which stands for the "Clost Combat Unit"

Overview: The BBE is the Netherlands main CT unit. Made up of around 100 volunteers from the Royal Dutch Marines. Made up of 3 platoons each containing specialists in EOD, sniping, communications and combat medicine. Candidates have to undergo 48 weeks of intensive training.

Known operations:

In October 1977, the BBE was called in to quell a prison revolt in Schervergen led by armed Palestinian terrorists. Despite this, the BBE used stun grenades and hand to hand combat, preferring to capture rather than kill.

On June 11 1977, Morroccan terrorists seizes more than 200 hostages and held them in a train and schoolhouse. Two F-104 Starfighters of the Dutch Air Force were ordered to swoop at the train at low altitudeand at supersonic speed. This disorientated the terrorists and the BBE simultaneously launched an assault on the train and schoolhouse. (They were supported by British SAS) The BBE killed 6 terrorists, but at the cost of 2 hostages.

Weapons used: HK Mp5, HK G3 Assault rifle, Steyr SSG; SIG Sauer P226 pistol, Colt .357 magnum revolver

Info taken from the Encyclopedia of the World's Special Forces by Mike Ryan Chris Mann and Alex Stillwell.

[edit on 24/1/05 by D]

Country: Poland
Name of SF Unit: GROM
Overview: GROM was formed in 1991 and its members are recruited from the Army's 1st Commando Regiment and the Navy's 7th Lujcka Naval Assault Brigade. GROM is highly secretive about its size, but it is believed to be at around 250 operators. Members must speak at least 2 languages and have good medical skills. Almost 75% of GROM personnel are either paramedics or nurses and as such they provide excellent support for the team doctor.

Known operations: GROM was selected to participate in operation Restore Democracy, the US led invasion of Haiti. On arrival GROm were tasked with providing security for the UN general Secretary Buthros Buthros Ghali and the US SecDef William Perry. While in Haiti, GROM took part in a hostage rescue, rescucing a young boy from armed gunment. There was no bloodshed during the operation, something which earned the creator and commander of GROM, Colonel Petelicki, the US Army Commendation Medal.

GROM has also been involved in protecting Pope John Paul II during his visit to poland in 1995.

Weapons used: HK MP5; Tantal 5.45mm assault rifle, HK PSG-1; and Mauser 86 7.62mm. Personal sidearms selection is at the operators discretion.

Cool i knew dutch had ties with britain but i didnt know they had SF ties.
What other units do they have?

Originally posted by devilwasp
Cool i knew dutch had ties with britain but i didnt know they had SF ties.
What other units do they have?

The Dutch seem to have fairly heavy ties with the British SBS.

The Dutch also have :

7NL SBS. They are the naval SF of the Nertherlands

Overview:

The 7NL SBS are an elite among the Dutch Royal Marine. An elite within an elite. The unit has remarkably close ties with its British equivalent the SBS. The Dutch began traininig combat swimmers in 1959 but changed their training in 1961 to adopt US and French pratices. In 1973, the British and Dutch formed the joint UK/Netherlands Amphibious Force (UKNLAF) made up of two nations naval assets and Britians Royal Marine 3 Commando Brigade and the Dutch Group of Operation Unit Marines (GOUM). 7 NL SBS is a subunit of GOUM support battalion. In wartime operations or in any moment of international co-operation, the 7NL SBS would come under the British command and act as a part of the British SBS, becoming part of the C Squadron, the recon unit of 3 Commando Brigade.
The unit is believed to be around 25-26 men strong, divided into 4-5 teams. 7nl SBS is also responsible for long range recon, small scale raiding, and training with the BBE in maritime CT tasks and the protection of Dutch Oil rigs.

The BBE also maintains a boat troop and is technically part of the Royal Dutch Marine Crops, but comes under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Justice.

Recruits under go a 22 week trainng course. Failure rates are around 70%.

Weapons used: C7 & C-8 5.56mm Assault rifles (the Canadian version of the M16 and Car15, the MP5, Glock 17; FN Mag MG; Steyr SSG 7.62mm is the main sniper.

[edit on 24/1/05 by D]

First im 13 so stop makin fun of youngins. Now i dont know that much about how good different special forces are and since im from the USA i was wondering if the SEAL's were good compared to other SF??? Or some of their known succesful operations.