Minister criminally charged for not performing homosexual marriage

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Seriously... you are saying that because you would have to say "Man and Man" or "Woman and Woman" it is a specialized request and that is your argument that Marriage Equality gets special treatment?

Think about it.. just think

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

Still doesn't make any sense. These business owners offered marriages, flowers, decorations, music, weddings. That's what they offer and no one asked for anything different...

They offer weddings between males and females (aka brides and grooms). That is their service, that has always been their service, and thankfully they will be allowed to continue their service.

a reply to: Bone75

So you are for violating the constitution?

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
I still don't understand why any gay couple would even go to a church to get married. You know your going to get refused service so why waste your time? It's clear to me that some of these couples are doing this stuff on purpose. That's like me going to a KKK party and expecting to get 5 star treatment, it's ridiculous.

Because not all churches will refuse you. There are some denominations that have decided to go ahead and marry gays. I can't speak for their particular brand of theology, but whatever.

For those who skulls might be slightly thicker....

originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog
a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

**ATTENTION**

Before this becomes a thread of misinformation allow me to set the record straight.

A) This happened back in October 2014
B) The Idaho city where this apparently happened has no record of any complaint filed against The Hitching Post
C) The Hitching Post was operating as a for-profit business meaning it fell under the city's antidiscrimination ordinances BUT the city decided to allow the couple to continue to operate their business as long as they only perform religious marriage ceremonies

It took me all of 5 minutes to find all this. Google before you get taken in by sensationalized headlines like we've been seeing so often lately on ATS.

**End of Unofficial PSA**

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
It's a for-profit business...
Not a Church.

They make a living doing this, thus they can't discriminate the services they offer...



How many times are we gonna hear this stupid argument and have to tell people they're full of it.


It's almost a daily occurrence.


Learn your Countries laws ffs.

So if you exclusively service automobiles by giving them lube jobs for 35000 customers over all the years you were in business and all of a sudden people who want paint jobs on their cars want you to go to jail for not servicing them.....you would be fine with that?

Not wanting to paint a car isn't a form of discrimination. Also lube jobs and painting cars isn't covered by the Constitution.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Seriously... you are saying that because you would have to say "Man and Man" or "Woman and Woman" it is a specialized request and that is your argument that Marriage Equality gets special treatment?

Think about it.. just think

Business model, staff, inventory.
That is specialization.
My staff may only include ordained ministers who cannot and will not say those words. Why should I be forced to hire more staff, more inventory and destroy my business model passing on costs to customers? The new gay wedding shop around the corner will not be forced to do the same, they will be allowed to specialize. They will thrive from streamlining to their customer base. My shop would have inflated prices on everything to offer services nobody would pay for when they can get them cheaper with more quality around the corner at the gay wedding shop.

This equalizing stuff is not about equal at all, it's about revenge.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
Its pretty much donation based, so your argument is invalid.

That's not true! It's a for-profit business with set prices, JUST like a store. It IS a store. They sell weddings.

OK, and like any other store they can refuse business? Are you one of those people that decries intolerance while being intolerant?

They can refuse service as long as it isn't based on discrimination.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

This equalizing stuff is not about equal at all, it's about revenge.

That's BS. Making a for profit business follow the LAW isn't revenge it is about making a FOR PROFIT company treating everyone equally. How can something so simple be so hard for some people to understand?

a reply to: TinfoilTP

It's a Word.. "Man and Man" "Woman and Woman" Someone that is GLBTQ+ would Marry straight people too...

I don't think you understand the Ruling...i'm sorry.. but hey, keep believing in the Lube and Paint Jobs, Ignorance is bliss

originally posted by: grimpachi
a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

This must be a continuation of an old story because that place made news before for almost the same thing.

If I remember correctly they were given the opportunity to restructure as non-profit or religious institution, but it seems they passed on that. They were also told they could employ someone that would cater to those requests and avoid any penalties.

Thanks, this sounds more reasonable.

Why do people have no memory retention? This is like the 5th time ATS has gotten outraged over the same story in a year.

Knapps remember the name the next time this rolls around.

originally posted by: AnonymousCitizen
charlescarrollsociety.com...

Well, that escalated quickly. Husband and wife ministers are being charged with violating ordinance 9.56 for refusing to perform a homosexual wedding at their "hitching post".

Donald and Lynn Knapp are licensed ministers in the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel. They claim to have married “roughly 35,000 couples.”

Thus the question before the godless, post-Christian, authoritarian federal court is can the city of Coeur D’Alene under the Constitution of the United States force a for-profit business to provide services to homosexuals? Another way to ask the question is if Coeur D’Alene forces Donald and Lynn Knapp to participate in a homosexual ceremony is this violating their freedom of religion.

This is an unfortunate situation and I do not believe ministers should be forced to perform a ceremony clearly contrary to their religious beliefs.

This is the sort of abject lying that delegitimizes true clams of religious liberty. These people weren't "charged" with anything. Charges are criminal. Someone said they might sue them. That's civil and is brought by a private individual, not a governmental entity, as with a criminal charge. When bigots lack an ethical foundation for their belief, they exagerate or lie.

if gay and hetro, black and white people have a choice to marry why cant ministers or celebrants have a choice who they do business with. otherwise the "hitching post" will be something that resembles an ATM machine soon.

a reply to: PLAYERONE01

lol, i can see it now.
do you? please choose an option.....yes/no/undecided(added drama effect)
sorry you have insufficient credit to complete your ceremony.
have a nice day

originally posted by: Kali74
Why do people have no memory retention? This is like the 5th time ATS has gotten outraged over the same story in a year.

Knapps remember the name the next time this rolls around.

I found 2 threads on ATS already on this subject.

When the story broke in OCTOBER 2014

and

This thread created 11 days ago when the media recycled the story

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
I still don't understand why any gay couple would even go to a church to get married. You know your going to get refused service so why waste your time? It's clear to me that some of these couples are doing this stuff on purpose. That's like me going to a KKK party and expecting to get 5 star treatment, it's ridiculous.

Because not all churches will refuse you. There are some denominations that have decided to go ahead and marry gays. I can't speak for their particular brand of theology, but whatever.

If there are churches that do it then those are the places they should be seeking out for service. What's so hard about contacting a few churches ahead of time to see if they will do it? If they had did that then this wouldn't be an issue.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

Because they want to stir the pot. They like to create controversy just for the sake of it. #ing losers. I'm gonna make a hetero flag and start my own parade. Anyone wants to join?

The mis-information story that will never die.

It was a for prophet business.

a reply to: MrMaybeNot

Excuse me? did you read any of the topic? or are you quick just to call us "Losers"?


Here you go, Russia seems to agree with you

www.washingtonpost.com...

hyperallergic.com...