The Kennedy Project

Just found this site, it's connected to the Lunar Registry(and if this has been posted before I am sorry, did a search and could't find a thread dedicated to this subject) It's called The Kennedy 2 Lunar Exploration Project and its currently in Phase One. Here are its stated goals for the project...

OUR GOAL: To establish operational bases on the Moon for scientific study, tourism, manufacturing and resource development, using public and private (non-governmental) funding to accomplish our goal.

OUR COMMITMENT: To return fair market value to our sponsors and partners in exchange for their commitment to see this monumental project through t0 its completion.

OUR CHALLENGE: To work with established aerospace suppliers, including commercial launch vehicle manufacturers, equipment contractors and mission facilities providers, to develop a safe, realistic and financially viable program to return humans to the Moon.

OUR PLAN: The first phase of this program shall culminate in a successful unmanned mission to the Moon by 2008; the second phase shall result in a successful manned mission to the Moon and the establishment of permanent settlements on the Moon by 2012; the third phase shall result in the construction of permanent structures, including housing, landing/launch ports, observatories and other scientific facilities, and the commencement of resource development by 2015.

[edit on 27-12-2004 by sardion2000]

No replies in almost a day, i thought this would get at least some people excited. Well I'm bumping this to make sure more people see this as I believe its important news.

If all this goes well by the time they have permanent structures I'll be 22. I've always thoughts of living in a space colony. This thing is really cool maybe I'll go there on a vacation sometime. Thanks for posting the link

It is definitely a good idea, but honestly... Don't you think that 10 years delay is a bit short? Think of all that is needed to set a permanent colony on a dead body? Resources in oxygen are one of the first and most important, food, power supply (even though then sun can help greatly), just what is needed to "live" there is enormous, as soon as you plan to live several months.

Things need to be well and long prepared, and I believe that it will take a lot of time before something semi-permanent can be used as housing on the moon... I don't think that it will be successful so soon. My personal experience tells me that anything difficult or fancy, when planned carefully, will take at least 2 times as much time and effort as initially thought. Even if in your plans you get to think pessimistically, most of the time you're out of initial bounds. My best bet is rather something close to 2050. I don't see that before 2030 anyway.

I'll be 75 by 2050, but even so, I'll be jumping off my chair when, and if, I learn it is a reality!

Originally posted by cpr12r
If all this goes well by the time they have permanent structures I'll be 22. I've always thoughts of living in a space colony. This thing is really cool maybe I'll go there on a vacation sometime. Thanks for posting the link

I wouldn't mind vacationing there, but not living there, after a year or two on the moon I think you'd not be able to live on Earth vary happily for a while. Besides, NASA doesn't think they can make a mars colony with real people happen untel 2040. We need to put our money in the pockets of private companies because they will get what needs to be done finished.

Spookyvince,

People said the same thing about the X-Prize when it first started. They said things like "Oh but you can't do that it would require billions for a company to reach sub-orbit" etc etc. When a Prize is set up for this type of endevor and It'll be sooner rather then later, you and every skeptic will be proven wrong. We do have the technology, all we need is the financial will to do it and it seems that this could be the starting catalyst. These are the types of challenges that Humanity usually excels at. These things have been a long time in coming and I say its about fricken time. I do agree that thier timetable is optimistic, but with enough money I see no reason why it can't be done by 2015 at the earliest but I do not see it coming any later then 2025 as by then the Private Space Industry will be in full swing. If you want to look at historical parrellels look at the Aviation Prizes that took place at the beggining of the 20th century. It spawned an Industry in record time. This time it's not gonna take as long, at least thats my feeling. One last quote I'll leave you with as I believe it affects this area of technology as well.

"From now till 2025 we will see a huge increasing in our technological capabilities, more so then in the entire 20th century combined"

I believe K. Erik Drexler said that particular quote. Another thing he mentioned was that most people will be caught off guard as we as humans tend to think in linear terms when dealing with technology(ie Assuming its gonna progress the same rate it has in the past) when its not. Technological progress is increasing exponentially, going faster and faster towards....what? I have no idea.

[edit on 27-12-2004 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by sardion2000
Spookyvince,

People said the same thing about the X-Prize when it first started. They said things like "Oh but you can't do that it would require billions for a company to reach sub-orbit" etc etc. When a Prize is set up for this type of endevor and It'll be sooner rather then later, you and every skeptic will be proven wrong. We do have the technology, all we need is the financial will to do it and it seems that this could be the starting catalyst. These are the types of challenges that Humanity usually excels at. These things have been a long time in coming and I say its about fricken time. I do agree that thier timetable is optimistic, but with enough money I see no reason why it can't be done by 2015 at the earliest but I do not see it coming any later then 2025 as by then the Private Space Industry will be in full swing. If you want to look at historical parrellels look at the Aviation Prizes that took place at the beggining of the 20th century. It spawned an Industry in record time. This time it's not gonna take as long, at least thats my feeling. One last quote I'll leave you with as I believe it affects this area of technology as well.

"From now till 2025 we will see a huge increasing in our technological capabilities, more so then in the entire 20th century combined"

I believe K. Erik Drexler said that particular quote. Another thing he mentioned was that most people will be caught off guard as we as humans tend to think in linear terms when dealing with technology(ie Assuming its gonna progress the same rate it has in the past) when its not. Technological progress is increasing exponentially, going faster and faster towards....what? I have no idea.

[edit on 27-12-2004 by sardion2000]

Well I absolutely agree with you on the fact that technology is progressing in a more than linear way, probably even up to exponential. I even posted something about that in this thread.

Even though, I remain highly skeptical for several reasons.

First, because you mention it, it took 8 years for the X-Prize to be won. It was started in May 1996. It was won in October 2004. The technology required to win it was known for decades.

Second, because even if money is there and people are there, there is still a need to actually do it, and it takes years. We're talking now of 10 years delay, according to the project. What is required now is:
- build a spacecraft capable of going to the moon and return on earth
- actually go there and build a base: just a few persons on board of the ship have a mission to build a permanent base, fully equipped, provided with food and oxygen for several persons during several months...
- of course, full financial support for all those persons, all the hardware involved, supplies, insurances (yeah, they won't do it without an insurance I guess, it is a commercial thing...)

This seems to me a bit unrealistic... Given the best of fortune, I can picture a scenario:
1. in the next few years (2007-2008), they will have actually build a spacecraft that is capable of doing the return trip, and have it tested thoroughly to ensure that all of their wealth and future won't just crash or explode
2. starting 2009-2010, they will be able to gather the necessary amount of money to actually buy the materials needed for a moon base: structures for the housing, telecoms, computers to manage the base and the telecoms...
3. 2010: the launch! They start to go over there and actually build the base. It takes weeks. Only a few persons, and only a part of the material... They won't just at first do a spacecraft able to carry 40 persons and all they need to build a base in 4 days!
4. 2013-2015: the base is about ready. The original spacecraft is under question: the technology now allow to build a better one. Either they build a better one, able to carry more, and more safely, or they go on using that old space van. Btw, they need now to equip the base with something that can last more than a few weeks or just a few months. There is absolutely nothing on the moon to keep the people alive: they need oxygen (and nitrogen, ... so on: they need air) and they need food, other than tube contained chemical foods...
5. 2016-2018: it is now possible to let 10-12 persons over there for two or three months without resupplying.
6. 2020-2030: huge works of improving the base, the supply stocks,...
7. 2040: the base is now a little city, with about 500 persons.

See my point of view? I am very skeptical. To be honest, I would more easily accept the idea of a permanent colony on Mars, because Mars could be terraformed (even if not before centuries...). The moon is a rock, it is dead, there is nothing over there to live on. It is nonetheless interesting, but I don't think a permanent colony over there is anytime soon, and to be honest, I don't even think it would be interesting.

Just my opinions, but that Kennedy Project seems to me to be more like a kid's dream than a human aim. What would be benefit it from? Mars would be more interesting: it is a planet, it has an atmosphere, and it could (just could...) be made suitable for living.

Why would we want to go to the moon? Cmon you can answer that yourself. Its sooo easy

1. Tourism -- This is a no brainer we all know that Humans are thrill seekers and adrenaline junkies I know I am

2. Resources -- This is the no brainer I was talking about. Helium-3 which is extremely rare on Earth but it just happens to be abundant on the Moon(800 Trillion USD worth by some estimates ) What is Helium-3 Usefull for? It could be used in Fusion . ITER is just about to get off the ground very soon, and Fusion is desperately needed. And there is this thing called the Fusion Rocket you might want to check out.

3. Relatively Convienent access to Earth -- No need to haul He-3 from the Gas Giants.

Of course it may seem like a childs dream, but isn't that how it all starts? If we survive to colonize mars we are gonna need real field experiance and where better then in our own backyard. The moon presents alot of challenges and when we have them down pat Mars will seem like a cakewalk. It would also serve as a jump-off point for a made-in space Mars Lander. It would not be constrained by launcher restrictions and we can build it BIG. If we are gonna go to mars we have to go prepared and the Moon seems like a good place for a trial run.

One other thing that a permanent human presenace on the moon will add to our capabilities and that is we will be able to build probes like we never ever imagined. Again not being constrained by launcher restrictions these types of spacecraft could take any shape, whatever is needed for the mission parameters. The ISS cannot do that. No orbital structure can really do that as a bit a gravity that is not artificially generated could be very usefull. Who know maybe the Moon will be the next industrial wasteland of the Human race. Or maybe it will be the next Las Vegas. Or both.

You have a point... Maybe I'm stubborn (I don't think so... ) but I still think that it is a very optimistically drawn project... Again, honestly, I think that we should focus on a better thing: either Mars (but that's a long term view) or a fully grown space station (and thanks for reminding me of that one) that is more like a fully grown town than any moon base.

Btw, very good thread! I like it... Lots of ideas in here...

Originally posted by SpookyVince
You have a point... Maybe I'm stubborn (I don't think so...

) but I still think that it is a very optimistically drawn project... Again, honestly, I think that we should focus on a better thing: either Mars (but that's a long term view) or a fully grown space station (and thanks for reminding me of that one) that is more like a fully grown town than any moon base.

Btw, very good thread! I like it... Lots of ideas in here...

Well actually I believe some of the goals are a bit pessimistic to tell you the truth. If a resort hotel takes off on the moon, then its gonna need well over 500 full time employees just to run the place. It will require a small town of workers to run and maintain any structure, allthough the longer they wait the easier it will get as Robotics is progressing very fast nowadays.

Allthough I do agree with you that the 2015 goal is not that realistic, its a good goal though and who knows they might even do it. I hope they do at least, and remember this is going to be mostly privately funded and Nasa will probably have to lease facilities in the future when they finally decide to get of thier collective asses and go to mars to stay. I look at every planetary body in our system as potential real-estate and mining opportunities, we cannot afford to try to do it perfectly the first time, we are probably gonna make mistakes and people will probably die in the effort to colinize the Sol system, but it will not be for nothing. Even if a moon base fails it will not be for nothing as we will gain valuble knowledge and experiance from the effort, all of which will be usefull on Mars when we eventually set up camp.

BTW Thanks for the compliment Thank you for the thoughtfull replies

[edit on 27-12-2004 by sardion2000]

You made a great post, and we are glad you made it. We've just heard so many promises like this that we're all jaded. For example, these other guys told us way back in the 20th Century that they were going to build a sea colony, then an orbital colony, then a lunar colony and so on all with our help and money. So far, all they've built is a website- and jeesh, even I can do that. Rutan layed up glas and turned wrenches and BAM! A real spaceship. If you want to know if someone is going to keep their promises, look at their fingernails, and bring an A&P mechanic along before you invest money. And bring your wrenches.

I hope they make it.

[edit on 27-12-2004 by Chakotay]

Originally posted by Chakotay
You made a great post, and we are glad you made it. We've just heard so many promises like this that we're all jaded. For example, these other guys told us way back in the 20th Century that they were going to build a sea colony, then an orbital colony, then a lunar colony and so on all with our help and money. So far, all they've built is a website- and jeesh, even I can do that. Rutan layed up glas and turned wrenches and BAM! A real spaceship. If you want to know if someone is going to keep their promises, look at their fingernails, and bring an A&P mechanic along before you invest money. And bring your wrenches.

I hope they make it.

[edit on 27-12-2004 by Chakotay]

Same here..same here. I never heard of that project, but considering the climate in the Space Industry I believe the time has come for a project like this. BTW Sea Colonies have been around for a while now, Oceania is the first I believe. Not sure if it is exactly what people imagined but you gotta start somewhere. In the mean time if I get a chance then I will gladly pour money into any Rutan endevor or Bigalow project. Those are gonna be the two big names for the next couple of years so expect to hear alot of news soon, I don't wanna be said to be spreading rumors but I have friends in the Canadian Aerospace industry who are well connected and the things they are telling me are in the works are unbelievable, I really don't wanna talk about it right now but if the plans look more concrete in springtime then I'll share, don't wanna look stupid here ya know

Well... after all this time, I wanted to revive this thread... I was indeed doubting about the dates offered in the OP, and it seems I was right. But by the way, any news on that project?

I get it Kennedy said we were going to the Moon.

But we did it all through the Nixon administration.

I call it the Nixon project... for lying Illuminati moon walking hopefuls.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


ahem... Check a bit more what's been posted above pls. This thread is about a NEW project named Kennedy, back in the early 2000's, and not about the lunar landings late 1960's and 1970's...