Are the "Baby Boomers" at odds with social inclusion and equality hypocrites?

Oh the young ones today with their 'beat' music (sounds like noise to me). Their short skirts and hot rod racing wasn't like that for the past generation... Oh hold on.


The dail Mail newspaper in the UK a very conservative readership seem,s to hate young people and all they do. They hate the sight I of young people having a good time. They took a fantastic music festival like Glastonbury and made it look like a crack den in a field, when instead it's a festival for young carefree people The daily mail was concerned with this new generation consuming "hippie crack" from balloons. Basically laughing gas in party balloons. You can just imagine all the old readers shaking their fist at the screen. "Bloody kids, should be at work. If you can't be carefree when your young when exactly can you be


If your a smart kid, you see the adult game and see there is no real reward to be gotten. Money doesn't make people happy so why spend a life time in pursuit of it only to retire when your best days are gone.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Nyiah

Give us a reason for change beyond, "You're old and your ideas are old, and anything old is bad. So CHANGE!" And we might be more willing to entertain it. So far, much of the recent changes have been couched in terms of "I don't want to be mean. How could you be mean?"

I left those arguments behind on the playground along with the cooties.

If you need to have it explained that equality in all things legal for the rest of us is the right thing to do for others, you're pretty damn hopeless as it is. You might as well just say "I want to be a selfish ass, because I can and there's no personal gain in it for me to include people in equal rights".

Equal how? THerein lies the rub.

To enforce equal outcomes means to take away individual liberty.

Try reading The Giver. I mean reading the book, not watching the movie. Jonas live in equality land. I wouldn't to live there. Sure everyone is equal, but the place is colorless and people are put to death when they are no longer useful or put to death if they don't develop right. And all your decisions are made for you.

a reply to: ketsuko

I bet if there were laws banning Christians the right to vote or get a marriage license, or if Christians weren't included in non-discrimination laws, you wouldn't be so quick to poo poo equal protection under the laws.

a reply to: JadeStar

I love posts like this! It shows how intelligent and thoughtful some of today's millennials are, but I'm going to say that you're generally barking up the wrong tree. It's not age that is the factor so much as fear, politics, religion, and closed-mindedness in general. Age really has little to do with it, other than more older people tend to be fearful, anti-progress, religious and set in their ways. But as we read the pages of ATS, we can see that there are plenty of younger people who are also fearful, resistant to change, religious and closed-minded.

I am a baby boomer and I have many friends and family who are also baby boomers. We're all celebrating, though most of us are fairly straight.

I must admit, I am highly embarrassed by some of the things my fellow boomers say and think (many in this thread) but I'll bet you've been embarrassed by some of the crazy things your fellow millennials say and think, too. So, I don't think it's about age, so much as the other factors.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Equal how? THerein lies the rub.

There is no "rub". Equal means equal treatment under the law. Not "equal outcomes", not "equal without differences", not "equality land". But treated with equal protection under the law of the land, as the US Constitution guarantees.

That doesn't take away ANYONE'S individual liberty. Denying a group of people equal protection of the law is taking away their individual liberties.

I'm 63 and my husband is 67 and we are both happy for Gay people being able to marry, it's about time. They have every right to be just as miserable as straight people do. It's an old joke incase some of the youngsters never heard it before.

I'm not so much embarrassed about some of things I've read on this forum as astounded. Bigotry and closed mindedness certainly are multigenerational.

a reply to: JadeStar

I don't want to be ageist

Yet you open your thread with a sarcastic "Get Off My Lawn" image? The pinnacle of the "old person" stereotype.
Oh, I see. It was just a tongue-in-cheek reference. You weren't being hypocritical

( prompting such clubs to post signs outside reminding everyone that the club primarily caters to the LGBTQ community)

You complain about exclusionary behavior, then cite a LGBQT club that is engaging in exclusionary behavior.

Most of the people who are uncomfortable with the changes that have taken place tend to be over 50?

Yea, people over 50 are uncomfortable with change. I wonder what would happen if omnipresent WiFi, Facebook, and Twitter were suddenly taken away from this incredibly adaptable, change-embracing younger generation. I'd bet we may witness some discomfort.

I've seen this first hand in some recent threads on ATS. I wonder however, if it's all a matter of generational perspective?

Yes, it is absolutely a matter of generational perspective.
For the record, your conclusions regarding "old people" not "getting it", while young people do, in fact, "get it" probably go back to Plato.

a reply to: ColeYounger

this golden nugget:

"Yea, people over 50 are uncomfortable with change. I wonder what would happen if omnipresent WiFi, Facebook, and Twitter were suddenly taken away from this incredibly adaptable, change-embracing younger generation. I'd bet we may witness some discomfort. "

I would seriously like to see some major power failures that would make access to all the above unavailable and see who can adapt the best.

And I apologize I don't mean to start a turf war, old versus young, but sometimes us old folks don't like it being suggested we are old fogies that don't know what's going on or are afraid of new things. Dag nabit

a reply to: JadeStar

I've seen this first hand in some recent threads on ATS. I wonder however, if it's all a matter of generational perspective? Most of the people who are uncomfortable with the changes that have taken place tend to be over 50?

I think it's not that easy to divide this up between old and young. It's more between now and then - if you see what I mean

A lot has changed - and changed so incredibly fast that I think some younger people aren't really capable of understanding the way things were because it was not a part of their experience

There were plenty of people that accepted and supported gay people - decades ago. My dad was one of those people. But in many ways, society forced those people into a kind of closet just the same as gays were forced to live their lives in hiding. It wasn't as easy to speak your mind - not at all like it is today

The older people that are having a hard time coming to terms with all this now are no different than the young people that hold similar beliefs. It's not their age - it's the way they think

If you really want to have a real discussion about this, you should realize when society began to make most of it's biggest changes. Civil rights, feminism, gay pride - gender politics of all sorts - environmentalism, sex, drugs and rock and roll...

Those people were at the forefront of all of this. So many were incredibly political - activists of every kind, even if only by choosing to live a lifestyle most would call unacceptable. Or worse. Many of those people suffered - some horribly. All at a time when it was definitely not easy to do so

Never forget those people. They were boomers - and they made what's happening now possible

a reply to: ketsuko

Or ... Is it that gay is the new "in" thing and fad and that is why so many people like identifying with it the same way everyone had to do that brand new thing in school? In my day, it was Garth Brooks and country pop music that was the fad. People all suddenly started wearing cowboy hats and boots and every boy in my high school wanted a pickup truck.

The truly brave gays were the ones who were gay before it was cool.

This tells me you don't have a clue what you're talking about

Superficial, ignorant nonsense

Hi everyone,

First of all I want to thank everyone who has responded and offer a couple of apologies for both my typos (I was hella distracted and posted in a rush rather than proofread and correct it as I typically do here, i cringed re-reading it today). It looks as though you understood the question I was asking though?

I'd also like to apologize for not responding until today. I had planned to check back later yesterday to read and respond but if you didn't know it, we're going through a crazy heat wave up here in the northwest so a bunch of my friends asked if I wanted to go to the beach, which is what I did before returning home to get ready to go out to dine with my boyfriend as had we had long-previously planned.

I will say that I am very curious about the experiences of those from the 60s (the dawn of the beginning of profound Post WWII social change, space exploration and ARPAnet which later turned into the internet) through to those from the 80s-90s (the dawn of internet access for everyone and beginnings of most of the culture, technology and many of the things I grew up with having been born in 1995).

I think what got me thinking about all of this was reading a textbook in school called "60s Experience : Hard Lessons about Modern America by Edward P. Morgan

That book and some of the others I read subsequently as well as talking with older people in my family and elsewhere has lead me to a profound appreciation for Post-War American History and older people in general. But not without questions.

So to those of you who were my age in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s or 1990s I want YOU to know that I fully appreciate your generations and the things you stood up for (even if you personally may have been unaware of or on the other side of them at the time.)

1960s

It could be argued that I might not have ever been born had it not been for the 1960s, the Civill RIghts Movement, desegregation, and many of the changes which took place afterwards. My mothers family is black and from the deep south - Louisiana, my father's family is white and from the Pacific Northwest. Without desegregation they might never have even met. Had the practice of Redlining not ended then I know my mother and father probably wouldn't have even lived in the same neighborhood or went to the same school.

1970s

And were it not for the Equal Rights Movement for Women in the 1970s I might not be studying for a career in an area of the sciences which traditionally had been almost exclusively male. Access to the hormone replacement therapy I would eventually need, probably would have been very difficult if not impossible had the birth control pill never been invented and eventually widely accepted. Planned Parenthood an organization which i -think- started in the 1970s (?) has helped many in my situation get on HRT even if they couldn't afford it even thought that organization was started for very different reasons they recognized women like me were still women whose control over their body was just as important regardless of how we were born.

1980s

Were it not for the Gay Liberation movement which grew larger after the AIDS virus was ignored by the mainstream until it effected heteorsexual people. Some of the organizations born out of the 80s gay rights movement like the Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (P-FLAG), my parents would have been on their own when a 5 year old me insisted that I was a girl despite having been born with boy parts. It was during the 1980s that the original medical standards for the treatment of transsexual and transgendered people were put into place and adopted by mainstream medicine, doctors and health care providers.

1990s

Were it not for much of the research into transsexuals and transgender children in the late 1980s/early 1990s, my parents might not have let me begin living as a girl at age 7, and I almost certainly would not have been given the option to postpone male puberty by taking testosterone blockers at 13. Something which I allowed me to have more time to decide if I wanted to begin hormone treatment to fully transition as I did 2 years later with my parents blessing under the care of a fairly well informed health care system. I can't stress how important this was to helping me have about as normal a girlhood as is possible for someone born into my situation. I am pretty sure I'd have probably committed suicide had I not been able to transition then. I don't expect most of you to understand the profound depression I had experienced until I knew there was a "light at the end of tunnel". So were it not for the rapid development of micro neurosurgery which took place throughout the late 1990s then parts of my body after gender reassignment surgery would not have any feeling or be functional at all. And with all of that difficult stuff out of the way at 17 I was able to just focus on my studies and preparing for college. And were it not for the whole Riot Girl thing which got started not far from where I grew up then it might not even be cool for teens to have the frank discussions about gender and society which I'll admit my generation takes for granted.


So to all of you who allowed for the progress in all aspects of American society for the last 50 years THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!! :heart: I will -ALWAYS- appreciate your generations for paving the way for my generation in general and for me in particular to even exist!! :hearts:

And all of the music created in your generations allowed the music i grew up listening to to happen too!!

So please KNOW that you all rock!

If time machines existed I'd probably want to first travel back to the 1960s (so much went on! So many people organized against some very long held and entrenched ideas and even the government itself with nothing other than phone calls, flyers and word of mouth!!!! that's remarkable! Bob Dylan! Janis Joplin! The height of the Space Age, the first microwave oven and rapid technological advancement! Wow those of you who were lucky to experience it have my profound respect.) and the 1990s (the transition from analog generations to digital ones, the start of the transition from national identity to global identity, the beginnings of social media, memes, flashmobs, global awareness through individual to individual global communication, Rave parties when they were still organized by kids, The Prodigy! Madonna! First extrasolar planets discovered! you got to experience and do all that stuff when it was NEW you lucky people!).


I truly believe that every generation should learn from the successes and failures of the last. I also feel every generation paves the way for the next so I hope you all understand that's where my questions come from. I would hope that when I'm older like many of you that, I'll remember the principals I stand for now if and when I do not understand a younger generation's issues and convictions.

Lastly, I have read your responses and many are fascinating In some cases I have further questions and I will be replying to them individually. very soon. I'd also like to thank most of you for your patience, especially those of you who belong to the age group who I openly questioned and perhaps seemed critical of. I am just curious by nature about this particular era in our history.

a reply to: JadeStar

:-)

Based on this latest post - no need for you to bother reading mine

Timing is everything JadeStar

Nice thread too - S&F

a reply to: JadeStar

You might enjoy these documentaries, if you haven't seen them already. I'm still a hippie. Tie dye and all. LOL!

The Sixties - The Years that Shaped a Generation

Hippies

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: JadeStar

You might enjoy these documentaries, if you haven't seen them already. I'm still a hippie. Tie dye and all. LOL!

The Sixties - The Years that Shaped a Generation

Hippies

Thanks!!

BTW i'll be back in a few hours to reply to everyone i promise

Bridging the "generation gap"


BTW: that is one of my favorite songs its from 2011 but at the time it was released I had NO IDEA it was actually a cover of an old hippie song by a band called Jefferson Airplane! Resonated with that generation and mine too.

LOL....I doubt age has that much to do with it.
Sorta part of the Boomer Age here....primarily a hippie.
When I was in my 20s, I lived in a predominantly gay area of the city.
And during my entire working life, I worked in an occupation that had many openly gay people.
So, why turn against this group now?????????
Few---maybe none--of us are 100% gay or straight!!

For whatever reason, I think being worried, concerned, uncertain about one's sexuality has more bearing on non-acceptance.
As does other factors, such as religious convictions.

I don't think it is fair or correct to lump large groups this way, and make blanket statements about them.

ETA
OTOH....I believe in property rights...so stay off my lawn....too many folks....young and old...disrespect others and their property

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I can see I didn't need to write my post for more than one reason - I should really read though - bad habit :-)

Age really has little to do with it, other than more older people tend to be fearful, anti-progress, religious and set in their ways. But as we read the pages of ATS, we can see that there are plenty of younger people who are also fearful, resistant to change, religious and closed-minded.

It's definitely a thinking thing. All kinds of people in all categories can now say what they've always believed - because we're freer now. I think making it easier to speak is what turned this all around so fast - once you could see which way the general public was leaning - how can anyone hold that back?

It's been incredible to watch

Too funny, I love the original lol

a reply to: JadeStar

There are no Millennials on the supreme court, yet they still voted in favor of marriage equality.

How about we all just accept that there is no more Hetero / Same sex marriage and just call it marriage and be happy. Both sides need to quit over analyzing this whole thing and just move forward. Quit looking for fights to pick on something that is no longer a fight. It has been settled.

Those who are still against it, suck it up, quit paying attention to it and you'll be much happier.

Those who won, quit looking for reasons to keep arguing for it. Your side won.

This whole thing is really getting tiresome.

On a side note... I am bisexual. But both sides of this issue are acting like children, it's time to stop. Do what the majority of Americans are doing, just live your life without looking for arguments.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
OTOH....I believe in property rights...so stay off my lawn....too many folks....young and old...disrespect others and their property

I must agree! I don't want anyone on my "lawn" either! LOL! But that's just because I'm a private person, not because I'm old.