UK bans teaching of creationism in any school that receives public funding

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Your argument makes no sense in that you have given ZERO proof that the classes will be replaced with science.

Erm, this is a thread about the banning of teaching creationism in science class - so it's pretty self explanatory that the time they would have spent on teaching creationism would be replaced by teaching science.

The "minimum requirements" guidance, published earlier this week, reads: "Creationism, intelligent design and similar ideas must not be taught as valid scientific theories."

A DfE spokesman said on Friday that Mr Gove "will not accept any academy or free school proposal which plans to teach creationism in the science curriculum or as an alternative to accepted scientific theories".

The spokesman said such ideas could be legitimately discussed as beliefs in religious education classes, but not taught as science.
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Just for clarity - the UK secondary education system is based on timetables where you have a different specialist teacher for either one or two hour sessions dedicated to the same subject totaling around 40 hours per week (i.e science class, geography class, math class) was pretty certain the US does the same but maybe I'm wrong?

It's very true religious schools out perform standard but creationism isn't taught in all but the most extremist UK school as a science, more a story. You don't have to be religious to go to a religious school, just the parent has to pretend they're religious for a bit, go to a place of worship regularly few a few months and get the nod from the leader/priest/imam and similar.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: chr0naut

There is no scientific evidence for Creationism as there is no scientific evidence for many theories of the origin of the universe.

Name me a single scientific theory taught in school that has no scientific evidence. As someone supposedly trained in the scientific method, I would have thought you were versed in what the scientific definition of the word "theory" is.

Creationism isn't even a hypothesis. It has no evidence, is makes unfalsifiable claims and is derived not from empirical observation but from religious scripture. If you STILL can't see the difference between a scientific theory and a creation myth I have to call BS on your claims of a scientific higher education.

Black Holes, Gravitational Singularities, The Big Bang and the inflation of the universe. All entirely theoretical, except if you ignore the evidence against them and 'cherry pick' the evidence for them.

Let me give you examples:

In regard to the "Inflation of the universe". Firstly, we are told that it was faster than light, despite the fact that we know of no mechanism which could do that. We also would have to ignore the existence of blueshifted stars and galaxies (the whole Andromeda galaxy is blueshifted, as are many stars and galaxies), which would be impossible if there was superluminal expansion. Finally, there is strong evidence that redshift happens in discrete steps in many cases (it is quantized). This means that redshift is not an optical Doppler effect and may actually not show relative motion at all. This means that Inferences drawn from the Hubble constant are wrong.

Big Bang theory is based around a singularity. We have no evidence that singularities exist. There are mathematical and physical problems in with the definition and existence of gravitational singularities. The evidence of gravitation with no visible matter to cause it could be a misunderstanding of what we think we see. It could be from a clump of weakly interacting massive particles (WIMPS, or dark matter) but we have never actually seen a naked singularity. There is much current debate in physics about singularities and Black Holes, but it is all theoretical. If singularities don't actually exist, then it demolishes the Big Bang as a theory.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

No. You can't prep the battlefield that way as I know where you will take that. Just find something and refute it.

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: chr0naut

I take issue with any theory taught as scientific fact.

Wait a minute... I thought you were trained as an astrophysicist? Yet you make the most bone-headed mistakes regarding scientific terminology?

I'm calling shenanigans on your educational claims.

The bar on 'what is fact' that science uses is particularly high.

Would you like to inform us what the scientific definitions of 'fact' and 'theory' are? Because it is quite clear you haven't got the foggiest. Here, allow me:

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

In the most basic sense, a scientific fact is an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a hypothesis or theory, which is intended to explain or interpret facts.

Now that I have posted this, you have absolutely no excuse for making this schoolboy error again in your arguments.

Too bad it isn't reflected in education and legislation.

If your arguments are a reflection of scientific education then we are in dire need of an overhaul.

Please explain how we have performed repeated testing and experimentation upon the Big Bang?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

No. You can't prep the battlefield that way as I know where you will take that. Just find something and refute it.

I meant there to be no battlefield as such but are you saying you are not a UK resident without a child in the UK school system and as such cannot comment on this subject?

I am good with this but can you give me a reason as to why your opinion should be somehow valid other than you think it should be so?

Maybe you have some experience in teaching or social development? Maybe you have some kind of understanding that could benifit this subject?

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: chr0naut

Are you that ignorant you claim to comprehend the initial conditions of the universe when ypu don't even know what the word theory means or the scientific method?

Neither of those are theories as theories are evidence based and supported by experiments and similar, at best what you claim could be labelled an axiom as you're having to assume something to be true in order to support your view - which is completely anti-science until the point a law is created.

In other words, it's a thought experiment with absolutely no evidence where all initial conditions have been invented by yourself to try and support your opinion. Which obviously will never result in the right answer.

There are meany hypothesis and theories in science about how or if the universe began from big bang theory to static state or quantum fluctuations or many worlds - none of them rely on a creator and havewell established and tested evidence behind them.

Then present some of that evidence.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

No. You can't prep the battlefield that way as I know where you will take that. Just find something and refute it.

I meant there to be no battlefield as such but are you saying you are not a UK resident without a child in the UK school system and as such cannot comment on this subject?

I am good with this but can you give me a reason as to why your opinion should be somehow valid other than you think it should be so?

Maybe you have some experience in teaching or social development? Maybe you have some kind of understanding that could benifit this subject?

Having been a professor at university. I know this pseudo intellectual game. Just find an opinion and refute it. It's simple.

What you are trying to do here is to create a strawman with which you will automatically and arbitrarily declare my opinion invalid and declare victory without ever having to address any of my points directly while at the same time being intentionally obtuse and roundabout in hopes that I'll get tired of playing and wander off in which case you'll also declare victory for your superior debate skills.

That's amateurish stuff. Just get on with it.

Such a hate fest in here, maybe you all do need God in your life.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: chr0naut

Creationism is not education, it's indoctrination. It is not science, there is no objective evidence for it, so it SHOULD NOT be taught in any educational capacity. It should only be "taught" in religious theory classes or philosophy. That is where it belongs. Religion is supposed to be a personal thing. Let the parents teach their kids their belief system. It's not the school's job to teach a hypothetical guess (or series of guesses) in a classroom.

I also said there was no evidence for Creationism, except for the existence of everything.

The existence of everything is evidence for... wait for it.... everything exists! It doesn't prove anything else. Stop trying to suggest that creationism is backed by "everything in existence" while evolution or abiogenesis is just made up on the spot. Sorry man, that isn't how it works. Evolution has TONS of evidence. Abiogenesis has SOME evidence, but isn't proven yet. Creationism has NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, and this will not change just because you think god exists and believe that everything was created.

There is much evidence for Creation. Everything we know of physics indicates that the progression of physical forces always seeks the lowest energy state (Entropy). Yet the whole universe speaks of variety, not collapse into a single state of existence (the lowest energy state) as physics would direct. The origin of the universe runs diametrically contrary to physics at its core.

What are we left with?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

No. You can't prep the battlefield that way as I know where you will take that. Just find something and refute it.

I meant there to be no battlefield as such but are you saying you are not a UK resident without a child in the UK school system and as such cannot comment on this subject?

I am good with this but can you give me a reason as to why your opinion should be somehow valid other than you think it should be so?

Maybe you have some experience in teaching or social development? Maybe you have some kind of understanding that could benifit this subject?

Having been a professor at university. I know this pseudo intellectual game. Just find an opinion and refute it. It's simple.

With such a esteemed reputation I would assume that you would simply ignore me yet you continue to elude my questions and evade any answers? are you sure you are not a politician?

Why not simply ignore me and move on?

My opinion and intelect must be beneath someone as esteemed as yourself and this statement alone should be the out you need to remove yourself from this conversation.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

No. You can't prep the battlefield that way as I know where you will take that. Just find something and refute it.

I meant there to be no battlefield as such but are you saying you are not a UK resident without a child in the UK school system and as such cannot comment on this subject?

I am good with this but can you give me a reason as to why your opinion should be somehow valid other than you think it should be so?

Maybe you have some experience in teaching or social development? Maybe you have some kind of understanding that could benifit this subject?

Having been a professor at university. I know this pseudo intellectual game. Just find an opinion and refute it. It's simple.

With such a esteemed reputation I would assume that you would simply ignore me yet you continue to elude my questions and evade any answers? are you sure you are not a politician?

Why not simply ignore me and move on?

My opinion and intelect must be beneath someone as esteemed as yourself and this statement alone should be the out you need to remove yourself from this conversation.

What you are trying to do here is to create a strawman with which you will automatically and arbitrarily declare my opinion invalid and declare victory without ever having to address any of my points directly while at the same time being intentionally obtuse and roundabout in hopes that I'll get tired of playing and wander off in which case you'll also declare victory for your superior debate skills.

That's amateurish stuff. You obviously thought you could hammer me on something since you are the one who threw down the gauntlet, just get on with it.

I don't recall ever really learning about creationism in public school. I also didn't learn about islam either like they do now.
I did go to church as a kid and learned that stuff. Catholic actually. Never really believed the story even as a kid, but I kind of understood it as more a fable than science. I understood even as a kid that my religion was about being good and humble, and that there are things bigger than us an individual. In that sense religion can be good. I don't see the harm in teaching about what a religion believes, it's just not the public school's job to decide what is the right belief.

But oh well, we are living in descending times.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

No. You can't prep the battlefield that way as I know where you will take that. Just find something and refute it.

I meant there to be no battlefield as such but are you saying you are not a UK resident without a child in the UK school system and as such cannot comment on this subject?

I am good with this but can you give me a reason as to why your opinion should be somehow valid other than you think it should be so?

Maybe you have some experience in teaching or social development? Maybe you have some kind of understanding that could benifit this subject?

Having been a professor at university. I know this pseudo intellectual game. Just find an opinion and refute it. It's simple.

With such a esteemed reputation I would assume that you would simply ignore me yet you continue to elude my questions and evade any answers? are you sure you are not a politician?

Why not simply ignore me and move on?

My opinion and intelect must be beneath someone as esteemed as yourself and this statement alone should be the out you need to remove yourself from this conversation.

What you are trying to do here is to create a strawman with which you will automatically and arbitrarily declare my opinion invalid and declare victory without ever having to address any of my points directly while at the same time being intentionally obtuse and roundabout in hopes that I'll get tired of playing and wander off in which case you'll also declare victory for your superior debate skills.

That's amateurish stuff. You obviously thought you could hammer me on something since you are the one who threw down the gauntlet, just get on with it.

Not at all I simply asked you to discuss the OP, you refused.

What would you like to talk about?

What conversation do you you think we could have and you would have half a chance?

Off you go then find a way to say something without engaging in actual conversation if you want.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

No. You can't prep the battlefield that way as I know where you will take that. Just find something and refute it.

I meant there to be no battlefield as such but are you saying you are not a UK resident without a child in the UK school system and as such cannot comment on this subject?

I am good with this but can you give me a reason as to why your opinion should be somehow valid other than you think it should be so?

Maybe you have some experience in teaching or social development? Maybe you have some kind of understanding that could benifit this subject?

Having been a professor at university. I know this pseudo intellectual game. Just find an opinion and refute it. It's simple.

With such a esteemed reputation I would assume that you would simply ignore me yet you continue to elude my questions and evade any answers? are you sure you are not a politician?

Why not simply ignore me and move on?

My opinion and intelect must be beneath someone as esteemed as yourself and this statement alone should be the out you need to remove yourself from this conversation.

What you are trying to do here is to create a strawman with which you will automatically and arbitrarily declare my opinion invalid and declare victory without ever having to address any of my points directly while at the same time being intentionally obtuse and roundabout in hopes that I'll get tired of playing and wander off in which case you'll also declare victory for your superior debate skills.

That's amateurish stuff. You obviously thought you could hammer me on something since you are the one who threw down the gauntlet, just get on with it.

Not at all I simply asked you to discuss the OP, you refused.

What would you like to talk about?

What conversation do you you think we could have and you would have half a chance?

Off you go then find a way to say something without engaging in actual conversation if you want.

There you go. Exactly as I predicted. I have been discussing the OP for 23 pages. You said you read the thread, yes or no?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

No. You can't prep the battlefield that way as I know where you will take that. Just find something and refute it.

I meant there to be no battlefield as such but are you saying you are not a UK resident without a child in the UK school system and as such cannot comment on this subject?

I am good with this but can you give me a reason as to why your opinion should be somehow valid other than you think it should be so?

Maybe you have some experience in teaching or social development? Maybe you have some kind of understanding that could benifit this subject?

Having been a professor at university. I know this pseudo intellectual game. Just find an opinion and refute it. It's simple.

With such a esteemed reputation I would assume that you would simply ignore me yet you continue to elude my questions and evade any answers? are you sure you are not a politician?

Why not simply ignore me and move on?

My opinion and intelect must be beneath someone as esteemed as yourself and this statement alone should be the out you need to remove yourself from this conversation.

What you are trying to do here is to create a strawman with which you will automatically and arbitrarily declare my opinion invalid and declare victory without ever having to address any of my points directly while at the same time being intentionally obtuse and roundabout in hopes that I'll get tired of playing and wander off in which case you'll also declare victory for your superior debate skills.

That's amateurish stuff. You obviously thought you could hammer me on something since you are the one who threw down the gauntlet, just get on with it.

Not at all I simply asked you to discuss the OP, you refused.

What would you like to talk about?

What conversation do you you think we could have and you would have half a chance?

Off you go then find a way to say something without engaging in actual conversation if you want.

There you go. Exactly as I predicted. I have been discussing the OP for 23 pages. You said you read the thread, yes or no?

what the thread about UK bans teaching of creationism in any school that receives public funding?

as you know I did I came a little late but tried to take it back to that?

I offered to start it again you refused?

Show me a post in the last 4 pages that was on topic? I am not saying you are wrong just asking.

Lets get on topic or not eh?

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Barcs

I think he just wanted to argue for the sake of it.
Because yes it is simple and logical.

But that was never my point and to frame it in that context is rather disingenuous.

My point is that it won't make any difference and that there are much greater problems to address and, as previously stated by another UK poster, faith based schools already outperform public schools in the UK where math and science are concerned so there really was never a concern of low performance to begin with.

Was the pont not though about the teaching of creationsim?

I take it you didn't read the thread. My point was that it really wouldn't make a difference from an academic standpoint as parochial schools were already outperforming public schools.

Me i did not bother to read the thread, why would I?

I just read the thread maybe missed a couple of posts here and there, was born and raised in the UK, saw three stepkids go to school here and then my own, watched how it it went about and then made a decision on how I thought I felt about the situation regarding the topic in question and then I guess...

I think I just made stuff up to have an opinion on a conspiracy site.

Ah, so you don't bother to gather all of the information and then you make a judgment on it. And you deride others for not using information?

Your quote sir.

You said you didn't read the entire thread.

Ok I see what happened there, you actually took what I said as opposed to reading what I said.

Well done for that.

There is a word for what I did but there you go.

Well, if you don't say what you mean, don't be all kerfuffled if you don't communicate well.

what would you like me to say?

How would you like me to make your opinion void?

I do not mind how we do it but at least give me a chance otherwise your just cheating?

You can't make my opinion void. Give it a go.

Ok you start then.

Nope. You are the one who brought up this "challenge." Whatever it is you think you have, give it over.

I understand if you want to simply dissapear right now, it is up to you?

Why? You said you had something, throw it out there. Otherwise you are blowing smoke.

I asked your opinion on the OP?

Your opinion on the question in the OP?

I thought you read the thread wherein I have repeatedly posted my opinion on the OP.

Which of those do you care to refute?

Sorry I thought we were going to start from scratch here.

Just to clarify before we start can we both say that we live in the UK and have children currently in the UK system and that we are activley involved in the schooling system so we both know that we are both working towards a positive outcome to this question.

No. You can't prep the battlefield that way as I know where you will take that. Just find something and refute it.

I meant there to be no battlefield as such but are you saying you are not a UK resident without a child in the UK school system and as such cannot comment on this subject?

I am good with this but can you give me a reason as to why your opinion should be somehow valid other than you think it should be so?

Maybe you have some experience in teaching or social development? Maybe you have some kind of understanding that could benifit this subject?

Having been a professor at university. I know this pseudo intellectual game. Just find an opinion and refute it. It's simple.

With such a esteemed reputation I would assume that you would simply ignore me yet you continue to elude my questions and evade any answers? are you sure you are not a politician?

Why not simply ignore me and move on?

My opinion and intelect must be beneath someone as esteemed as yourself and this statement alone should be the out you need to remove yourself from this conversation.

What you are trying to do here is to create a strawman with which you will automatically and arbitrarily declare my opinion invalid and declare victory without ever having to address any of my points directly while at the same time being intentionally obtuse and roundabout in hopes that I'll get tired of playing and wander off in which case you'll also declare victory for your superior debate skills.

That's amateurish stuff. You obviously thought you could hammer me on something since you are the one who threw down the gauntlet, just get on with it.

Not at all I simply asked you to discuss the OP, you refused.

What would you like to talk about?

What conversation do you you think we could have and you would have half a chance?

Off you go then find a way to say something without engaging in actual conversation if you want.

There you go. Exactly as I predicted. I have been discussing the OP for 23 pages. You said you read the thread, yes or no?

what the thread about UK bans teaching of creationism in any school that receives public funding?

as you know I did I came a little late but tried to take it back to that?

I offered to start it again you refused?

Show me a post in the last 4 pages that was on topic? I am not saying you are wrong just asking.

Lets get on topic or not eh?

So, you are trying to discuss the value of education in public schools without even bothering to read the course materials? Not bothering to do your homework?

I'm sure you can see the irony in that.

I've refused nothing. I've posted my opinions multiple times. Pick one out, try to refute it, and we can get going. Yes, let's get on topic. Show me where you disagree with me.

a reply to: chr0naut
Big Bang theory has a lot. There's a decent overview here demonstrating the various sources of evidence for it and the tests it has passed here: www.universetoday.com...

A prof at Lancaster uni created a mini universe in the super cooled lab but I'm struggling to find the paper or any news on it but will continue to search as I'm heading there next month.

I personally favour the static state model, though obviously it's not concrete - there's just a lot of evidence for it - arxiv.org...
www.sciencedirect.com...

M theory is obviously a heated debate but simulations have supprted it but I;d need to brush up on Hermintian to have an opinion on those
arxiv.org...
arxiv.org...