Nikki Haley To Call For Confederate Flag To Be Removed From South Carolina Capitol: Reports

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here is my problem with the Heritage vs. Hate argument...AKA the Flag represents South Carolina's heritage..

The Confederate Flag on the State capitol grounds?

Ya know when it was put there? It hasn't been flying for 150 years..

The Confederate flag was hoisted above the State House in 1961 by a bunch of old white southerners opposed to segregation and looking to give the middle finger to the Federal Government and let the African Americans in South Carolina know how their state government felt about it.

And whilst after this tragedy...both the State Flag and the American flag at the State House fly at half-mast...The Confederate flag does not, because of a state law that was passed forbidding it to ever be flown at half-mast.

That flag was raised in the spirit of intolerance and needs to come down. As always in America, everyone has a right to assign their own value and meaning to a flag, and they can continue to do so on their own private property.

BTW - I was travelling through South Carolina the week before Charleston with my family. Road tripping.

We passed more than one billboard with the Confederate Flag and the text "Never Forget". We passed more than one car or pick-up truck on the highway with the Confederate flag either painted on it, in the window or a bumper sticker etc. usually full of young men trying to look angry and tough and yes, some of them had shaved heads and tattoos. Me and the wife commented how beautiful SC was, but how we could never raise our kids there. SC has a ton of great people, kind hearts and good humor...but they also have a dark streak of the other kind and it's taken root in the young kids, not something that is dying out with the older generation.

There is no shortage of free-expression and the Confederate flag in SC, but that flag at the state capitol was raised in ignorance and hate and in opposition to segregation at the state capitol and is a symbol of the same. It needs to come down.

Your point is completely valid about the flag at the capitol. I don't agree...but valid nonetheless. But consider this for a moment. You mentioned the "angry", "young men" some with "shaved heads" and "tattoos". So lets say you take down the flag at the capitol because it represents something. Are you going to also make sure there are no "angry" people employed there? How about no "young men" with "shaved heads"? How about no one is allowed around the capitol if they are white and have "tattoos"?

I'm not attacking you or your valid point. Just trying to make my own. How is it fair or right to look at something...a flag or a person's "look" and say that it shouldn't be allowed...and then...say that is somehow different from racism? You judged people by their looks...others judge a flag by what they have decided it means...all because some people judge other people by the color of their skin??? See where I'm going here?

Prejudice...or pre-judgement is rampant and part of what we are. We see someone or something and our brain is wired to find a label where that thing fits and classify it. If our experience with that label is bad...we pre-judge that person as bad and visa-versa. This is what we are...this is how we are made. And when it is based upon experience, I would say it is not racist but it is pre-judgement or prejudice. It is only a problem when you make it a religion and say "all fill-in-the-blanks are bad" or when you decide to "do something about it".

When one person sees the confederate flag and thinks of racism, slavery, prejudice and more recently...nine murders by a lunatic. I think Southern Rock! Which of those people has the problem?

originally posted by: Drest

originally posted by: alphastrike101
a reply to: Rocker2013

I still dont understand the sick obsession some southeners have with their failed rebellion, I mean they lost, find somthing else to obsess over because the south will NEVER "rise again!"

Not only did they lose but they were defeated to the point that areas in the south took nearly half a century to recover. 1 in 5 military age male adults down there were killed. They were comprehensively defeated by most every metric. Given the ass kicking they received that flag is that of shame and defeat.

Sounds like you are the one with an obsession. Even though I'm not from the U.S., I am here on business very often, and IMO the southerners are the best Americans, the rest of you have never really impressed me the same way.

Your mentality seems almost child-like. How old are you anyway? Like really, "We won you lost" is the way little children speak. There is no "we" and "you" because there is only one America.

Most of them, like 95%, never think or speak about the Civil War, it's simply not something that's on their minds.

You however, seem to have a serious complex towards those people. I did notice that southern U.S. men were typically a lot cooler and "manly", so maybe that's where your complex comes from.

Face it, any Confederats soldier from that time would make you look like a female or little boy by comparison, all you can do is talk trash over the Internet, while their souls are where warriors go.

Repsect to the south from a Swede/German.

All you have here is illogical ad hominem attacks on me without any mention of the points I make in my post.
I have not talked any trash here. I simply pointed out accurate facts of the matter while you are the one making logically fallacious ad hominem attacks.

It is true that they lost badly and need to get over it.
That flag is a symbol of shame and utter defeat.

a reply to: NavyDoc
How bout that, im sure they were either pandering to the south for votes, part of the "good ole boy" network, or undercover conservatives. All of which seem plausible...or maybe not. It still doesnt change the fact that todays republicans were yesterdays democrats.

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: Indigo5


I love revisionist history.

I am not convinced you are familiar with history...revisionist or otherwise.

Which party perpetuates racial divide? Even encourages it?

Which party recognizes racism?...vs. just ignorantly claiming the President is a Muslim Terrorist born in Kenya etc. and being stupid enough to think since they didn't say the N-word no one will recognize it as racist?

Which party panders to minorities?

I don't know? Which party panders to racists?

Which party damns minorities to government dependence?

Stats show impoverished white people eat the bigger piece of that pie...ironically mostly in southern states.

Which party shackles children to the failure of public / government education?

Better than the alternative of the educational system that the GOP would offer kids who aren't rich? South Carolina hates the educational system so much that they have hacked the budget to the point where SC ranks LAST in the country. Maybe ponder what the consequences of fostering ignorance can do in this context.

Which party celebrates the murder of minority babies, and triumphantly proclaims it to be "health care?"

Really?

Which party gave birth to the welfare state, and which party cultured and grew it to the modern terror it is now?

Again, white people consume most of the welfare resources in this country...40% of all food stamps vs. 25% African americans...so not sure what that has to do with race?

I'll give you a hint...it's not those hateful racist Republicans (that apparently were formerly Democrats until it became cool to covert to Republicans to further their racist agenda).

That is just the facts jack. Can't help you much if you choose to be ignorant?

Electoral map 1860


Electoral map 1960


Electoral map 2012

originally posted by: doclec
a reply to: NavyDoc
How bout that, im sure they were either pandering to the south for votes, part of the "good ole boy" network, or undercover conservatives. All of which seem plausible...or maybe not. It still doesnt change the fact that todays republicans were yesterdays democrats.

Or, even more likely, is that liberals also have issues with racism and that hypocrisy abounds.

originally posted by: Indigo5
Which party gave birth to the welfare state, and which party cultured and grew it to the modern terror it is now?

Again, white people consume most of the welfare resources in this country...40% of all food stamps vs. 25% African americans...so not sure what that has to do with race?


Where exactly did the other poster say anything about race in that statement? Wasn't it YOU who made that about race? All they did was state the fact that the left are the ones who want to redistribute money instead of letting the people keep what they make. Welfare is part of that.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here is my problem with the Heritage vs. Hate argument...AKA the Flag represents South Carolina's heritage..

The Confederate Flag on the State capitol grounds?

Ya know when it was put there? It hasn't been flying for 150 years..

The Confederate flag was hoisted above the State House in 1961 by a bunch of old white southerners opposed to segregation and looking to give the middle finger to the Federal Government and let the African Americans in South Carolina know how their state government felt about it.

And whilst after this tragedy...both the State Flag and the American flag at the State House fly at half-mast...The Confederate flag does not, because of a state law that was passed forbidding it to ever be flown at half-mast.

That flag was raised in the spirit of intolerance and needs to come down. As always in America, everyone has a right to assign their own value and meaning to a flag, and they can continue to do so on their own private property.

BTW - I was travelling through South Carolina the week before Charleston with my family. Road tripping.

We passed more than one billboard with the Confederate Flag and the text "Never Forget". We passed more than one car or pick-up truck on the highway with the Confederate flag either painted on it, in the window or a bumper sticker etc. usually full of young men trying to look angry and tough and yes, some of them had shaved heads and tattoos. Me and the wife commented how beautiful SC was, but how we could never raise our kids there. SC has a ton of great people, kind hearts and good humor...but they also have a dark streak of the other kind and it's taken root in the young kids, not something that is dying out with the older generation.

There is no shortage of free-expression and the Confederate flag in SC, but that flag at the state capitol was raised in ignorance and hate and in opposition to segregation at the state capitol and is a symbol of the same. It needs to come down.

Your point is completely valid about the flag at the capitol. I don't agree...but valid nonetheless. But consider this for a moment. You mentioned the "angry", "young men" some with "shaved heads" and "tattoos". So lets say you take down the flag at the capitol because it represents something. Are you going to also make sure there are no "angry" people employed there? How about no "young men" with "shaved heads"?

Not at all. Taking down the flag won't fix any of that. It will however remove any confusion among those ignorant racists that the State of South Carolina supports their racist sentiments...and if it makes minorities feel less like disdained refugees in hostile territory of a war long since over, then it should be done.

a reply to: Seamrog

You sound straight out of conservative radio man, still nice try though.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE


Where exactly did the other poster say anything about race in that statement?

That entire post was about race...specifically that the Democratic party is racist in it's policies and that the south never switched parties. It was the entire point and theme of the post top to bottom? The bit about welfare was specifically aimed at minorities or more specifically African Americans. Perhaps re-read the post?

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE


Where exactly did the other poster say anything about race in that statement?

That entire post was about race...specifically that the Democratic party is racist in it's policies and that the south never switched parties. It was the entire point and theme of the post top to bottom? The bit about welfare was specifically aimed at minorities or more specifically African Americans. Perhaps re-read the post?

Perhaps YOU should re-read the statement and how you responded about race in general as the main part of the response, when the main part of the statement was which party pushes the welfare agenda.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here is my problem with the Heritage vs. Hate argument...AKA the Flag represents South Carolina's heritage..

The Confederate Flag on the State capitol grounds?

Ya know when it was put there? It hasn't been flying for 150 years..

The Confederate flag was hoisted above the State House in 1961 by a bunch of old white southerners opposed to segregation and looking to give the middle finger to the Federal Government and let the African Americans in South Carolina know how their state government felt about it.

And whilst after this tragedy...both the State Flag and the American flag at the State House fly at half-mast...The Confederate flag does not, because of a state law that was passed forbidding it to ever be flown at half-mast.

That flag was raised in the spirit of intolerance and needs to come down. As always in America, everyone has a right to assign their own value and meaning to a flag, and they can continue to do so on their own private property.

BTW - I was travelling through South Carolina the week before Charleston with my family. Road tripping.

We passed more than one billboard with the Confederate Flag and the text "Never Forget". We passed more than one car or pick-up truck on the highway with the Confederate flag either painted on it, in the window or a bumper sticker etc. usually full of young men trying to look angry and tough and yes, some of them had shaved heads and tattoos. Me and the wife commented how beautiful SC was, but how we could never raise our kids there. SC has a ton of great people, kind hearts and good humor...but they also have a dark streak of the other kind and it's taken root in the young kids, not something that is dying out with the older generation.

There is no shortage of free-expression and the Confederate flag in SC, but that flag at the state capitol was raised in ignorance and hate and in opposition to segregation at the state capitol and is a symbol of the same. It needs to come down.

Your point is completely valid about the flag at the capitol. I don't agree...but valid nonetheless. But consider this for a moment. You mentioned the "angry", "young men" some with "shaved heads" and "tattoos". So lets say you take down the flag at the capitol because it represents something. Are you going to also make sure there are no "angry" people employed there? How about no "young men" with "shaved heads"?

Not at all. Taking down the flag won't fix any of that. It will however remove any confusion among those ignorant racists that the State of South Carolina supports their racist sentiments...and if it makes minorities feel less like disdained refugees in hostile territory of a war long since over, then it should be done.

Understood...but I would say that we shouldn't (as an example) destroy all sharp objects just because the idiots may cut themselves. We should keep the idiots away from the sharp objects we smarter people need to use productively.

PS: I'm personally sick of everyone worrying about other people's feelings. It is time for people to thicken up their skin instead of trying to change everything so it is acceptable and perfect for them. We will never get to the point that everyone is happy. It is a failure before it even starts. Not directed at you but we have to get back to having some balls and not being so offended about stupid crap. I don't like rap...I don't protest it being played.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I agree, predjudicial ignorance is not beholden to liberals or conservatives. In my opinion neither philosophy has handled things correctly. You dont treat people who need help like children, but you dont ignore that the problem exists either

originally posted by: doclec
a reply to: NavyDoc

I agree, predjudicial ignorance is not beholden to liberals or conservatives. In my opinion neither philosophy has handled things correctly. You dont treat people who need help like children, but you dont ignore that the problem exists either

You do treat them like children if the help they need is due to stupidity. Otherwise, they take the "help" and waste it on shiny things that do nothing to solve the problem. Just a thought

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

There may be some truth to that statement, but very few of us are fortunate enough to not be distracted by the shiny objects

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here is my problem with the Heritage vs. Hate argument...AKA the Flag represents South Carolina's heritage..

The Confederate Flag on the State capitol grounds?

Ya know when it was put there? It hasn't been flying for 150 years..

The Confederate flag was hoisted above the State House in 1961 by a bunch of old white southerners opposed to segregation and looking to give the middle finger to the Federal Government and let the African Americans in South Carolina know how their state government felt about it.

And whilst after this tragedy...both the State Flag and the American flag at the State House fly at half-mast...The Confederate flag does not, because of a state law that was passed forbidding it to ever be flown at half-mast.

That flag was raised in the spirit of intolerance and needs to come down. As always in America, everyone has a right to assign their own value and meaning to a flag, and they can continue to do so on their own private property.

BTW - I was travelling through South Carolina the week before Charleston with my family. Road tripping.

We passed more than one billboard with the Confederate Flag and the text "Never Forget". We passed more than one car or pick-up truck on the highway with the Confederate flag either painted on it, in the window or a bumper sticker etc. usually full of young men trying to look angry and tough and yes, some of them had shaved heads and tattoos. Me and the wife commented how beautiful SC was, but how we could never raise our kids there. SC has a ton of great people, kind hearts and good humor...but they also have a dark streak of the other kind and it's taken root in the young kids, not something that is dying out with the older generation.

There is no shortage of free-expression and the Confederate flag in SC, but that flag at the state capitol was raised in ignorance and hate and in opposition to segregation at the state capitol and is a symbol of the same. It needs to come down.

Your point is completely valid about the flag at the capitol. I don't agree...but valid nonetheless. But consider this for a moment. You mentioned the "angry", "young men" some with "shaved heads" and "tattoos". So lets say you take down the flag at the capitol because it represents something. Are you going to also make sure there are no "angry" people employed there? How about no "young men" with "shaved heads"?

Not at all. Taking down the flag won't fix any of that. It will however remove any confusion among those ignorant racists that the State of South Carolina supports their racist sentiments...and if it makes minorities feel less like disdained refugees in hostile territory of a war long since over, then it should be done.

Understood...but I would say that we shouldn't (as an example) destroy all sharp objects just because the idiots may cut themselves. We should keep the idiots away from the sharp objects we smarter people need to use productively.

Agreed, but removing the flag is not an example of government over-reach pandering to political correctness. Removing the flag is correcting government over reach. That flag reminds minorities that their State government does not acknowledge them as equal citizens. that flag was raised in that spirit and is a symbol of every racist in the south. SC Government has no business flying that flag and never did...individuals are welcome to.

I guess 50 years too late is better than never at all.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE


Where exactly did the other poster say anything about race in that statement?

That entire post was about race...specifically that the Democratic party is racist in it's policies and that the south never switched parties. It was the entire point and theme of the post top to bottom? The bit about welfare was specifically aimed at minorities or more specifically African Americans. Perhaps re-read the post?

Perhaps YOU should re-read the statement and how you responded about race in general as the main part of the response, when the main part of the statement was which party pushes the welfare agenda.

Jesus...the statement in context was aimed at minorities. To pretend otherwise seems a painful stretch of logic..Whatever your thinking, you are smarter than that defense...

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: Indigo5

...

Which party perpetuates racial divide? Even encourages it?

Which party panders to minorities?

Which party damns minorities to government dependance?

Which party shackles children to the failure of public / government education?

Which party celebrates the murder of minority babies, and triumphantly proclaims it to be "health care?"

Which party gave birth to the welfare state, ....

Put simply, this is what the Confederate Flag represents flying above the State House in South Carolina..

Strom Thurmond represented South Carolina in the United States Senate from 1954 until 2003, at first as a Democrat and, after 1964, as a Republican...Post Civil Rights.

Whilst contemplating the hypocrisy of racism...Strom Thurmond had an African American daughter on the side via his housekeeper.

Smart political maneuvering. Placate the masses and obfuscate the situation by going for the flag grab instead of discussion about race, adverse side affects of psychiatric drugs, or lax gun laws which allow mentally unstable people to possess firearms.

originally posted by: UnBreakable
Smart political maneuvering. Placate the masses and obfuscate the situation by going for the flag grab instead of discussion about race, adverse side affects of psychiatric drugs, or lax gun laws which allow mentally unstable people to possess firearms.

Strategically..."Should the confederate flag be removed from the South Carolina State House" was giving the GOP Presidential candidates fits. They have been trying to expand their voter base to include minorities, but don't want to piss off their Southern White base either. Nikki Haley is trying to take the question off the table ASAP and definitely before the primary debates.