British police calling for knife ban

a reply to: grainofsand

I don't think violent crime is endemic in the UK and although trying to compare national against nation is fraught with danger, there is no reason to suppose violent crime in the UK is higher than the US.

Ultimately, if you are five times more likely to be murdered in the US then the US is a more violent place. There are comparable incidents of homicide by "sharp instruments" if US and UK are compared, so the it's incorrect to suggest that guns are the whole problem.

Personally, I think a homicide is the ultimate indicator of violence in society.

However, we dwell on the US, which does have a high rate when looking at the developed world, but we all know it's a peaceful place and gun ownership, while being part of the problem, is pretty controlled and sensible. This is unlike some hell-holes in the (so called) developing world. If the UK murder rate is 1 per 100,000 and the US is just under 5 per 100,000, then try Honduras at 90+/100,000, or Venezuela, or Mexico, or South Africa etc... Not mentioning the Caliphate that ISIS are trying to create, where the murder rate is beyond measure.

a reply to: paraphi

Agreed.
Most of our violence is on weekend nights, drunk, and ends in broken noses, jaws, and black eyes usually.
I prefer living in a society where that is generally the worst I can expect on a night out.
Being killed is the last thought in my mind, but it appears US members have that worry or concern much more than we do in the UK.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
a reply to: grainofsand

It's all good. As far as the gun issue we can agree to disagree. I was completely anti gun up until a couple years ago but have had one too many experiences where police were urgently needed and failed to act for me to have faith in anybody except myself protecting my family. I do get the logic to it though.

I don't think we particularly disagree about anything regarding firearm laws in the UK.
We only seemed to disagree when I said I'd choose a baseball bat if you were coming at me with a 12" knife.
I stand by that

I disagree with damn near everything you've said throughout this entire topic, not sure how you managed to miss that but it's cool.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

It would be boring if we all agreed. Debate is facilitated through disagreement.
So if you disagree with pretty much everything I've posted shall I assume you do not support the current legislation regarding carrying weapons in the UK?
...oh, and again, come at me with your knife anytime and just hope my aim with the baseball bat is poor.
You will be in my range before I'm in the range of your knife, and it will be a vastly different experience to the cute games you apparently play with rolled up cardboard and pencils lol

originally posted by: paraphi

Personally, I think a homicide is the ultimate indicator of violence in society.

And really should be where we focus our attention.

If I can live in a part of the world where nearly every house has a firearm and most people carry a knife, yet people don't go around shooting or stabbing each other, this rather suggests that the problem is with people more than the tools at their disposal.

In my ideal world, there would be no restrictions on what we own or what we do, because there wouldn't be people acting like idiots and ruining it for everyone else. Only an ideal world, unfortunately, because you can't legislate away stupidity.

My personal belief is in more freedoms and less laws, but better enforcement and more meaningful punishment for the laws that are kept. If you can do whatever it is you want to do, but without causing unreasonable interference to others or places them at risk, then you should be allowed to do it. Enjoy the freedom, accept the responsibility that comes with it, take the punishment if you fail to be responsible with it.

That's only part of the puzzle, though, you still need to reduce the reasons and environments that create and support a violent/criminal culture - and it really is cultural at this stage in places like the UK & US, the kind of poverty that drove crime in the last century exists, but nowhere near on the same kind of scale. Instead, you have thugs like Martin and Brown who were taught that thuggery is immune to repercussions, so that's how they lived their lives. That can't be a lesson that we continue to let people learn. The person who can solve this really would deserve a whole bag full of Nobel prizes!

a reply to: grainofsand

What I've said is based off 21 years of martial arts training in multiple disciplines, 5 years teaching classes in RBSD including police seminars alongside 7 years working the doors at Mass and The Fridge in Brixton and 2 years as a CPO. Not amazing credentials but enough to give me a bit of an insight.

What you appear to have is assumptions and some wonderfully idiotic notions of societies where thieves and criminals never target the vulnerable and instead act with honour and discipline at all times, where fights are one on one and get broken up by the public, the police are reliable and where the british are unafraid. All of this exemplifies a total lack of experience in anything resembling reality.

I did politely offer you the chance to test your bizarre theory but it seems you found a way to decline. Why you'd bring it up again at this point is beyond me.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

Oh my, I bow to your knowledge lol.
You have your opinion based on your own experiences, I have mine.
I shall not enter into a pissing match with you though, I don't live in a #hole like Brixton, so of course our experiences are different.
You have my sympathy, sounds crap wherever you live.
...my baseball bat will still reach you before your knife gets into my range though, regardless of your Ninja abilities

originally posted by: paraphi
If the UK murder rate is 1 per 100,000 and the US is just under 5 per 100,000, then try Honduras at 90+/100,000, or Venezuela, or Mexico, or South Africa etc... Not mentioning the Caliphate that ISIS are trying to create, where the murder rate is beyond measure.

I agree and I have asked a number of times if this is really an issue we should spend vast amounts of time to debate, or restructure our Constitution on? In the State I live it in it is about 2 per 100,000 so the US is a very big place with a wide range of lifestyles, good and bad.

The one other point to make is that about 60% of gun related deaths in America are actually suicides and gun violence is most common in poor urban areas and frequently associated with gang violence, so if you are not looking to off yourself nor if you live in a gang infested area, America is actually an extremely safe place to live in.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
I guess a life time of being spoon feed propaganda fear stories had really done a number on her........ anyway.

It is funny that the "spoon feed propaganda fear stories" are really not anything people in America talk about. It seems that it is more those on the outside using that as a form of logic to explain why we have guns when the reality is that we just love guns and we can, it is about as simple as that.

I wonder if those who have a bat in the UK as protection if they have it due to fear or just in case the one day they might really need it then it is there without much more of an after thought on it then that.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I wonder if those who have a bat in the UK as protection if they have it due to fear or just in case the one day they might really need it then it is there without much more of an after thought on it then that.

Agreed, my bat just lives next to my bed, almost an ornament.