British police calling for knife ban

This thread is hilarious.

Ok, just to clarify, there is NO knife ban.

Can you be arrested for carrying a knife? Yes if a police officer has reasonable suspicion that it is likely that you are intending to do harm to yourself or others. Is this a bad thing? Well I quite like the fact that they are tryng to protect us from nutters. If you wish to view this situation as them having power and us being at their mercy, I guess you must prefer it that anyone can carry a knife for any reason and if a policeman believes that the person intends to do harm, well sorry, nothing they can do as it is a right to carry it.

Is it more likely that you will be killed if someone can shoot you rather than stab you? Well I would guess there are at least 2 factors here.

Firstly, shooting someone from across the road, shop, hall way is psychologically easier than physically walking up to them and stabbing someone, or swinging a bat at their head. I would say there are less people capable of doing the latter than the former.

Secondly, is it literally easier and faster to kill and injure multiple people with a gun or with a knife? Well that's pretty obvious really.

Ultimately though, what would you prefer, to be mugged, attacked or robbed in your home by someone with a knife or a gun? Because what hasn't been mentioned is that unlike the films, people can easily get caught out and not react quickly enough. For all those who talk about wives and children being protected etc, what if they (or those looking after them) either can't or don't react fast enough to protect them. Having a gun and having time and the ability to use it quickly and well are totally different.

All I can say is that I don't feel the need to own a gun. Isn't that the sign of a good society?

a reply to: bluesilver

Agreed.
I prefer living in a nation where people aren't # scared of each other, and/or the police as they appear to be in the US.
America is a lost cause to be fair, there is no way any restrictions would help their society if introduced now. On the other hand, we in the UK have evolved into a reasonably low murder rate nation, although still pretty violent, but less deaths.
Greater access to weapons in the UK would not be helpful to our society, and restricting access to weapons in the US would be equally unhelpful to their decent citizens.
Apples and oranges. I'm lucky and happy to be an apple lover living in an apple nation.

a reply to: b14warrior

I don't think anybody has ever formally asked British women what they want; to make that assertion is a bit presumptuous. If you ask the women I used to train, some of whom started the classes after having been attacked I'm pretty sure they would want whatever was at their disposal to tip the odds in those kinds of situations.

It is entirely possible to have a pragmatic legal framework in place for the use of such weapons without society degrading into a manic arms race. You can penalise heavily for using them outside of a life or death situation which can be determined quite sensibly on a case by case basis by a jury.
If you applied the same rationale you're using there to the current situation there would be a mass epidemic of baseball bat related crimes.

It's obvious the current system doesn't work, reported rapes increased by 31% last year which was a 10 year high according to the office of national statistics. That could in part be due to more willingness to report but the apprehension rate hasn't significantly increased In response which proves it's a failing model or at the very least needs significant amendment. Add further and wider reaching police budget cuts to the mix and you have a huge number of vulnerable people who can be preyed upon. What would you propose as a solution to this?

Also, you have a far higher chance of surviving a violent burglar with a knife if you have a taser. If you have a bat against a guy with a knife you're probably going to die because you've elevated the threat by trying to even the playing field and increased his perception of failure while having a hugely inferior weapon. If you don't believe me get a large cardboard tube and have a friend launch a frenzied attack on you with a twig or the rubber end of a pencil, as soon as he's negated your range on the first couple of swings and got on the inside the fun will start. Try it and see.

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
If you don't believe me get a large cardboard tube and have a friend launch a frenzied attack on you with a twig or the rubber end of a pencil, as soon as he's negated your range on the first couple of swings and got on the inside the fun will start. Try it and see.

Sorry mate, I say bull#.
Come at me with a knife when I have a bat and if I connect before you get into range with your knife then you are #ed.
It all comes down to accuracy and if I had the choice of entering a ring with you holding a knife, I'd choose the bat, every time.
...of course if you are an experienced knife thrower then that changes things but most smack-head thieves in the UK are not.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

Making weapons available doesn't tip the odds in the favour of the victim in the slightest as the perpetrator is going to be jumping out with that weapon in their hand.

It really is that simple.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You are the one who stepped in with the "STFU different cultures" rap.

That's because - despite your deliberate obtuseness in not trying to understand the point - they are different cultures.

I'm sorry you can't grasp that.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
If you don't believe me get a large cardboard tube and have a friend launch a frenzied attack on you with a twig or the rubber end of a pencil, as soon as he's negated your range on the first couple of swings and got on the inside the fun will start. Try it and see.

Sorry mate, I say bull#.
Come at me with a knife when I have a bat and if I connect before you get into range with your knife then you are #ed.
It all comes down to accuracy and if I had the choice of entering a ring with you holding a knife, I'd choose the bat, every time.
...of course if you are an experienced knife thrower then that changes things but most smack-head thieves in the UK are not.

So let me get this straight. You don't want to have a gun but you've no problem with basing someone's brains in or skewering them with a crossbow? Is it that you want your kills to be sporting?

originally posted by: neformore

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You are the one who stepped in with the "STFU different cultures" rap.

That's because - despite your deliberate obtuseness in not trying to understand the point - they are different cultures.

I'm sorry you can't grasp that.

No. I see that this point of your obviously goes one way. Well done!

And I see the cultural difference--you guys don't have a problem needing to justify your peaceful activities to the authorities and we don't like to have to ask permission to own something. A result of our backgrounds. We tend to be anti-authoritarian and you've been subjects for hundreds of years.

a reply to: NavyDoc

He was to refering to defing himself in his own home.

Also I would like to see someone conceal a baseball bat never mind a crossbow.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: NavyDoc

He was to refering to defing himself in his own home.

Also I would like to see someone conceal a baseball bat never mind a crossbow.

Yes. I know. In his own home. That has nothing to do with my point.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
If you don't believe me get a large cardboard tube and have a friend launch a frenzied attack on you with a twig or the rubber end of a pencil, as soon as he's negated your range on the first couple of swings and got on the inside the fun will start. Try it and see.

Sorry mate, I say bull#.
Come at me with a knife when I have a bat and if I connect before you get into range with your knife then you are #ed.
It all comes down to accuracy and if I had the choice of entering a ring with you holding a knife, I'd choose the bat, every time.
...of course if you are an experienced knife thrower then that changes things but most smack-head thieves in the UK are not.

So let me get this straight. You don't want to have a gun but you've no problem with basing someone's brains in or skewering them with a crossbow? Is it that you want your kills to be sporting?

Oh behave yourself. I will use any weapon that is to hand if I am under attack.
UK law allows reasonable force, not a problem. I stabbed a late night burglar many many years ago, and I wasn't arrested or charged with anything. I stabbed him in the upper chest/shoulder then tended his wound with a towel , and called the ambulance/police when there was no more threat to my safety.

If someone does not attack me then I have no reason to use reasonable force in my defence.
You seem to be arguing bull# points fella, have you had a bad week or something?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: neformore

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You are the one who stepped in with the "STFU different cultures" rap.

That's because - despite your deliberate obtuseness in not trying to understand the point - they are different cultures.

I'm sorry you can't grasp that.

No. I see that this point of your obviously goes one way. Well done!

And I see the cultural difference--you guys don't have a problem needing to justify your peaceful activities to the authorities and we don't like to have to ask permission to own something. A result of our backgrounds. We tend to be anti-authoritarian and you've been subjects for hundreds of years.

I must admit my ignorance on your culture, are you saying that you do not need a licence to own or carry a gun, I understand there are regional differences here.

What about a car, do you not need to gain permission to drive?

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
If you don't believe me get a large cardboard tube and have a friend launch a frenzied attack on you with a twig or the rubber end of a pencil, as soon as he's negated your range on the first couple of swings and got on the inside the fun will start. Try it and see.

Sorry mate, I say bull#.
Come at me with a knife when I have a bat and if I connect before you get into range with your knife then you are #ed.
It all comes down to accuracy and if I had the choice of entering a ring with you holding a knife, I'd choose the bat, every time.
...of course if you are an experienced knife thrower then that changes things but most smack-head thieves in the UK are not.

So let me get this straight. You don't want to have a gun but you've no problem with basing someone's brains in or skewering them with a crossbow? Is it that you want your kills to be sporting?

Oh behave yourself. I will use any weapon that is to hand if I am under attack.
UK law allows reasonable force, not a problem. I stabbed a late night burglar many many years ago, and I wasn't arrested or charged with anything. I stabbed him in the upper chest/shoulder then tended his wound with a towel , and called the ambulance/police when there was no more threat to my safety.

If someone does not attack me then I have no reason to use reasonable force in my defence.
You seem to be arguing bull# points fella, have you had a bad week or something?

It's not a bukk# point. Using a crossbow, baseball bat, or knife are all uses of deadly force--you could have just as easily killed that guy with your knife. Now, it would have been a justified act of the use of deadly force but deadly force nonetheless. Thus, I'm curious--you seem to have no problem using deadly force in self defense and have no problem using potentially lethal things for self defense,so why do you want to limit yourself in other tools for self defense?

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: neformore

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You are the one who stepped in with the "STFU different cultures" rap.

That's because - despite your deliberate obtuseness in not trying to understand the point - they are different cultures.

I'm sorry you can't grasp that.

No. I see that this point of your obviously goes one way. Well done!

And I see the cultural difference--you guys don't have a problem needing to justify your peaceful activities to the authorities and we don't like to have to ask permission to own something. A result of our backgrounds. We tend to be anti-authoritarian and you've been subjects for hundreds of years.

I must admit my ignorance on your culture, are you saying that you do not need a licence to own or carry a gun, I understand there are regional differences here.

What about a car, do you not need to gain permission to drive?

None of those things are contingent on wether or not the authorities think you have a legitimate excuse on that day or not.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: neformore

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You are the one who stepped in with the "STFU different cultures" rap.

That's because - despite your deliberate obtuseness in not trying to understand the point - they are different cultures.

I'm sorry you can't grasp that.

No. I see that this point of your obviously goes one way. Well done!

And I see the cultural difference--you guys don't have a problem needing to justify your peaceful activities to the authorities and we don't like to have to ask permission to own something. A result of our backgrounds. We tend to be anti-authoritarian and you've been subjects for hundreds of years.

I must admit my ignorance on your culture, are you saying that you do not need a licence to own or carry a gun, I understand there are regional differences here.

What about a car, do you not need to gain permission to drive?

None of those things are contingent on wether or not the authorities think you have a legitimate excuse on that day or not.

So if you are searched with a concealed gun and you do not have the correct licence to you just get told not to do it again.

As I said I am not aware of how it works for you.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I don't want to limit the choice of tools for self defence, just require folk carrying potential weapons to have good reason for carrying it.
UK law is pretty good when it comes to 'reasonable force' I've enjoyed that aspect of our judicial system a few times.
If you can't justify holding the weapon in the street then questions are rightly asked.

...oh, and my example stories were all at home. That is a completely different legal kettle of fish to walking down the high street with a machete.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: neformore

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You are the one who stepped in with the "STFU different cultures" rap.

That's because - despite your deliberate obtuseness in not trying to understand the point - they are different cultures.

I'm sorry you can't grasp that.

No. I see that this point of your obviously goes one way. Well done!

And I see the cultural difference--you guys don't have a problem needing to justify your peaceful activities to the authorities and we don't like to have to ask permission to own something. A result of our backgrounds. We tend to be anti-authoritarian and you've been subjects for hundreds of years.

I must admit my ignorance on your culture, are you saying that you do not need a licence to own or carry a gun, I understand there are regional differences here.

What about a car, do you not need to gain permission to drive?

None of those things are contingent on wether or not the authorities think you have a legitimate excuse on that day or not.

So if you are searched with a concealed gun and you do not have the correct licence to you just get told not to do it again.

As I said I am not aware of how it works for you.

No. Your gun license is just as good on Monday when you are at work as it is on Sunday when you are out camping--no need to convince anyone that you were really going camping.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: NavyDoc

I don't want to limit the choice of tools for self defence, just require folk carrying potential weapons to have good reason for carrying it.
UK law is pretty good when it comes to 'reasonable force' I've enjoyed that aspect of our judicial system a few times.
If you can't justify holding the weapon in the street then questions are rightly asked.

...oh, and my example stories were all at home. That is a completely different legal kettle of fish to walking down the high street with a machete.

So you would be okay with people in the UK able to own guns for self defense in their own homes?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: neformore

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You are the one who stepped in with the "STFU different cultures" rap.

That's because - despite your deliberate obtuseness in not trying to understand the point - they are different cultures.

I'm sorry you can't grasp that.

No. I see that this point of your obviously goes one way. Well done!

And I see the cultural difference--you guys don't have a problem needing to justify your peaceful activities to the authorities and we don't like to have to ask permission to own something. A result of our backgrounds. We tend to be anti-authoritarian and you've been subjects for hundreds of years.

I must admit my ignorance on your culture, are you saying that you do not need a licence to own or carry a gun, I understand there are regional differences here.

What about a car, do you not need to gain permission to drive?

None of those things are contingent on wether or not the authorities think you have a legitimate excuse on that day or not.

So if you are searched with a concealed gun and you do not have the correct licence to you just get told not to do it again.

As I said I am not aware of how it works for you.

No. Your gun license is just as good on Monday when you are at work as it is on Sunday when you are out camping--no need to convince anyone that you were really going camping.

But you still need a licence to own and carry a gun is that correct?

The only difference between the two cultures is that in the UK we need a valid reason to carry one and in case I think I need to shoot another human bieng is not considered a valid reason here.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: neformore

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You are the one who stepped in with the "STFU different cultures" rap.

That's because - despite your deliberate obtuseness in not trying to understand the point - they are different cultures.

I'm sorry you can't grasp that.

No. I see that this point of your obviously goes one way. Well done!

And I see the cultural difference--you guys don't have a problem needing to justify your peaceful activities to the authorities and we don't like to have to ask permission to own something. A result of our backgrounds. We tend to be anti-authoritarian and you've been subjects for hundreds of years.

I must admit my ignorance on your culture, are you saying that you do not need a licence to own or carry a gun, I understand there are regional differences here.

What about a car, do you not need to gain permission to drive?

None of those things are contingent on wether or not the authorities think you have a legitimate excuse on that day or not.

So if you are searched with a concealed gun and you do not have the correct licence to you just get told not to do it again.

As I said I am not aware of how it works for you.

No. Your gun license is just as good on Monday when you are at work as it is on Sunday when you are out camping--no need to convince anyone that you were really going camping.

But you still need a licence to own and carry a gun is that correct?

The only difference between the two cultures is that in the UK we need a valid reason to carry one and in case I think I need to shoot another human bieng is not considered a valid reason here.

That's not the difference. The difference is that it's not a subjective determination that changes with the situation and the officer.

If you are legal, you are legal, regardless if the officer thinks you "need" it at the time.