British police calling for knife ban

a reply to: grainofsand

I would agree.

I would also probably assume that that is because ABH and GBH deteriorate into murder/manslaughter in many cases in the USA, and become murder/manslaughter after the initial, or during the initial offence.

As much spin can be put on it as they like, and this is a painful thing to say, but life is cheap in the New World.

a reply to: Jonjonj

Maybe they just need to fight with their fists a bit more and make that the standard, less deaths that way I'd reckon.
Too easy to draw a gun in a moment of madness, but then they don't have a National Health Service so death may be preferable to the bill of tens of thousands of pounds worth of maxillofacial surgery after a fight?

a reply to: grainofsand

I can not comment on the US health service as I have no clue about it. It is a shame though right? "This is the line you do not cross". I thought that was the American credo. That is what I was always taught anyway, perhaps Hollywood is to blame.
It seems bravery was somehow substituted for force.
You do not need to have the biggest gun to be the biggest man. (No euphemism intended)

a reply to: network dude

Thanks. I think I hid it a little too well.

a reply to: Jonjonj

There was a killing last year in a nearby town on a drunken Saturday night when a 40+ yr old bloke ran a smashed bottle into the throat of a 17 yr old lad. He was lucky he was remanded to prison because he would have been beaten to a pulp if he'd been given bail.
I had no dog in that local fight, but I understood the sentiment and I'd have turned a blind eye if I'd happened to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

a reply to: grainofsand

Nobody likes a coward man. But no one likes a bully either. Does that work in USA? The bully thing? Does a bully get his comeuppance?
There are bullies here of course, but in general it is not accepted.

Of course USA is so much bigger than UK so perhaps they do not get to know bullies at a local level either.

I bet they used to though, because I remember American films about bullies and they were always chastised!

a reply to: grainofsand

R.I.P. that is just wrong man.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

People are murdered in the UK in cold blood constantly. Just because a gun isn't typically used doesn't make them any less dead. Do some checking into your country's murder rates.

The murder rates that are four times lower than the U.S.?

a reply to: crazyewok

I think you are wasting your time really. Sadly death is the common currency in the US.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Skid Mark
Now, as most of you know, guns have been banned in the U.K. Because of that, violent crimes are being committed with knives. It goes to show that it's not the weapon that the criminal uses but the criminal. This ought to be food for thought for those who support a gun ban in the U.S. but I'm afraid that they'll totally miss the message.

Ah, the food for thought can be found in the statistics.

In denying ignorance and ignoring the difference in dates and the quagmire of comparing national statistics against each other, we have this bunch of factoids.

In 2012/13 the UK (specifically England and Wales) we had 27 homicides caused by firearms and 193 homicides caused by “sharp instruments”.

In the USA in 2012 there were 8,897 homicides caused by firearms and 1,604 caused by “Knives or cutting instruments”.

Now with a stated population of population of 53 million in England and Wales and 312 million in the US we have the following:

In the England and Wales you have a 1 in 100,000 chance of being murdered. In the USA this is just over 4 in 100,000.

In the England and Wales you have a 0.05 in 100,000 chance of being murdered by someone with a gun, while in the USA that’s approaching 3 in 100,000.

Wait for it… In the England and Wales you have a 0.4 chance of being murdered something "sharp and pointy", but in the US it’s worse and you have a 0.5 in 100,000 of meeting your maker that way.

The long and the short of it is that in the US your gun crime is very high and knife crime is higher than the UK. The myth that the UK is a laughter house of knife wielding murders is just that, a myth.

Difference is that in the UK the authorities react to the public’s concern about crime and take measures to reduce gun and knife crime. Guns are not outlawed, just controlled. Knives are not outlawed either, but they are controlled. Result is a safer country with less violent crime and needless murders.

> UK Office of National Statistics ONS
> US FBI statistics
> Law on knives in the UK
> UK Firearm Licensing Laws

Stop buying into the official stats. When the real numbers are taken into account, the murder rate in the UK is closer to 2.5 times that of the US.

The UK government manipulates the numbers to placate their citizenry.

Stop buying official States eh?

Let me guess we should look at some Bs Fox News report? A far right American website Le judicial watch?

Or maybe you have a YouTube Video?


Edit o God he did post a YouTube Vidio as a source haha I'm done here!

a reply to: Jonjonj

You know it, a young life snuffed out from a moment of anger.
If I saw the dead young lads dad in conflict with his murderer I'd be sympathetic to the dad.
Most people would. It is certainly a major contributing reason why he was remanded in custody.
Bail would've been a brutal death sentence.

*Edit*
He broke the rules of our society. Law comes second place.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Shhhhh that's called justice! That's for evil commi pinkos!

Na we are talking Merica! Guilty without trial! Rar rar rar!

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
If only we could aspire to American public killing sprees. I mean schools, a cinema... a church? You really should be proud Of your ability to kill innocent people in cold blood

Yeah you highly regulated guns after your masacres but your homicide rate never went down. So you got fooled. Now england is the stabbing capital of the world.

Too bad anyone with a grinder and a piece of metal will be able to make a knife even if you banned them.

Funny how the hard work is never suggested. Job training, education reform, social work and political social leadership. Its way easier to ban an object that has no effect on homicides at all anywhere in the world. Its about poverty, black markets, and social fabric decay but you cant make a i sentence slogan out of any of those things.

Really?

The latest crime figures for England and Wales confirm the drop in the murder rate is continuing. In the financial year 2011/12 there were 550 homicides initially recorded by police, compared to 638 in 2010/11. (Homicide being murder, manslaughter and infanticide)

www.blog.murdermap.co.uk...

Check the second graph. Murders are down 60% since 2001.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Look into the real murder rate numbers, not the officially posted nonsense. The UK only records a death as a "homicide" if/when a conviction is reached.

Um, isn't that the point of a trial? To determine if one is guilty of a murder? If not convicted no murder happened. You're reaching dude.

Reaching?

Tell me, if a murder is unsolved, does that make the victim somehow less dead?

If a body shows up that's been stabbed, beaten, strangled, poisoned, or shot, and no killer is found... does that body not exist as an example of a murder?

Do some actual research before posting nonsense and accusing me of reaching... dude.

I don't think those 45 cases since 1997 will slant the numbers much:

en.wikipedia.org...

Again, do more research instead of posting incorrect stats.

And don't call somebody stats wrong yet fail to post proof of your own!

Your point is invalid

I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen a guy on the losing end of a fight pull a knife, or some keys, or grab a bottle, or his friends jump in.

Most of us were fortunate enough to grow up in a time where a fair fight was seen as honourable but now we're dealing with kids who have no sense of self worth and fragile egos that have never had men to guide them so they'll never grow to be men in the sense that we understood it.

Maybe it's insane but I would very much like to see mutual combat laws implemented in the UK like it is in some states in the U.S. I'd also like to see boxing on the school curriculum.

a reply to: grainofsand

You know it, a young life snuffed out from a moment of anger.

In my opinion this here is the whole point. A moment of anger, a lifetime of regret.

Just finished reading all 9 pages of this thread and I've got to say it was a pretty painful exercise.

How many times have we had this 'discussion'?

The fact remains that you are around 5 times more likely to be murdered in the USA than you are in the UK.
Whether it be by a knife, gun or frigging pea shooter its pretty much irrelevant how the victim was murdered....unless of course one has a separate agenda to push.

Still after all these years I find it amazing that people still believe this drivel.
Does anyone really think that anyone is calling for an all out ban on knives?
Just how stupid are YOU to believe that such a thing would be taken serious by anyone?

Despite testament from numerous people who actually live here in the UK it seems that some prefer to believe anonymous blogs etc and uncited Wiki entries.

There is no knife ban and there never will be.
It preposterous to even suggest such.

There are however, as explained already by several posters, regulations about exactly what types of knives can be carried on one's person in public.
Could someone please tell me what exactly is wrong with that?

Comparing UK society to USA society is apples and pears.
What's right for you isn't necessarily right for us, and vice versa.

I don't care about the Right to Bear Arms in the USA - keep it, change it, do what YOU want.
Your country, your laws.
Please afford us the same respect.

But please, please, apply a little common sense when reading such nonsense as this and don't allow your preconceived ideas to cloud your opinion.

And have any of you wondered why every single UK member who has posted on this has pointed out just how incorrect this 'report' is?

And don't repeat that 'because you've got no balls' nonsense - anyone who knows anything about the UK and its people knows that nothing could be further from the truth.

a reply to: Freeborn



Nothing else to add really.

a reply to: Freeborn

Yeah dude bang on.

a reply to: Freeborn

I don't think the intent of the OP was to slam on the UK, but more to make the point that banning "X" will not help stop the bad man from being the bad man.

I could be wrong, but that's how I looked at it.

Maybe it's insane but I would very much like to see mutual combat laws implemented in the UK like it is in some states in the U.S.

I agreed with everything in your post but this.

I don't believe things outside the law can be implemented, but, and here is my point, the fact is that general consensus and societal pressure drive these things where I live.

Is there really a state in the USA that has such a combat law, and is it implemented? More importantly, is it enforced? I know there are strange laws but damn, not sure I ever heard of those type of laws implemented!