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Predestination - The outcome to arrogance is blindness to the scriptures

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posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 01:19 AM
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I am going to share my views on predestination and the elect, and how they intertwine with freewill.

The outcome to arrogance is blindness to the scriptures.


2 Peter 3
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


The ignorant and unstable are the arrogant. They approach the scriptures in arrogance and thus they are blinded to the truth.

We are given freewill to make choices but the outcomes are a combination of predestination, chaos and election.

The elect. The patriarchs and prophets did not choose to be the patriarchs and prophets, God chose them. One can choose to have faith in God, but it is God alone who exalts the elect.

For the humble, who use thier freewill to seek God and understanding through prayer, the predestined outcome is understanding.


Mathew 21:22
If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."


James clarifies this by solidifying the requirement of faith.


James 1 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.


Although some are predestined to be the elect. Anyone who prays for understanding and believes they will receive it is predestined to find understanding.

The various churches are filled with men who believe they have the only "right" understanding of God. These men call themselves the elect. They slander the prophets of the other religions, setting themselves above God's prophets.

These are the men who divide you. These are the one's predestined for shame.

The prosperity teachers are also predestined for shame. They pray that they may spend on themselves.



James 4:3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.


There are humble men among the church who will repent at the Revelation of Jesus Christ and be accepted by the congregation. But the arrogant and the greedy are predestined for shame. While the humble are predestined for joy.

God did not take away the freewill to choose, he simply decided the outcome before the choices were made.

The predestined outcomes of our actions are righteous. God is just in his judgment.

Can a man who says "I was CREATED by God" be arrogant?

Why do the religious keep exalting themselves? If they were CREATED by God, shouldn't they be exalting God alone?


Luke 18:19 Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.


A created man is a humble man. Greatful that he was created.


edit on 19-6-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 01:23 AM
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You do realise all this is you are filling your head with is utter cr@p?

O...

I guess you don't!



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 01:27 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

Is it Sunday morning in your part of the world?

I gave you a star and flag for preaching to ATS on a Friday night. That takes the guts of a lonely soul.

Believe what you will friend. If it harms none, do what you will.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 01:30 AM
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originally posted by: DeepImpactX
a reply to: Isurrender73

Is it Sunday morning in your part of the world?

I gave you a star and flag for preaching to ATS on a Friday night. That takes the guts of a lonely soul.

Believe what you will friend. If it harms none, do what you will.


The Jewish Sabath is sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. Jesus didn't change the Sabbath the Roman Catholic church did.

So I am preaching on the Sabbath.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 01:53 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

There is a very good summary here:

biblelight.net...



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 02:00 AM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Isurrender73

There is a very good summary here:

biblelight.net...


Thanks, I bookmarked it. One of the more thorough explanations I have seen.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 02:50 AM
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So I should follow prophets blindly only because they call themselves prophets even if Yeshua told me not to?

Matthew 7:15


"Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves."


Who should I follow? Yeshua:s teaching or Paul:s teachings? I cannot follow both because Paul is contradicting Yeshua when you look at the information logically and objectively. So Paul is the reason that there is a division in Christian faith between those who follow only Yeshua:s teachings and those who follow Paul:s additions instead of Yeshua:s teachings.

Let's now look at the Quaran as an example. A warlord who kills people and say he is the prophet of god while not showing in his fruits that he is the real divine being.

Quran 5:32


Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.


Muhammad always gave himself a moral justification for his killing that holds up for his followers who have faith in him not doing anything wrong, but never hold up when looking at it objectively from the outside. Any wonder why ISIS still use this verse to justify killing by creating a subjective view of corruption that people need to be killed for. Follow Muhammad and do moral crimes in his faith name to punish lesser moral crimes (stoning people for lesser corruption creating even more real corruption in the lands).

Who is really causing the separation between Yeshua teaching and Muhammad teachings? Would it not be Muhammad who create something subjective that do not really hold up when compared with Yeshua:s teachings and therefor faith is needed and not logic and awareness.

Neither Paul nor Muhammad teach the divine nor objective ruling. Teachings of subjective duality can never be objective non duality. And subjective duality will always fight with other subjective duality since it is separating souls into teams to fight each other. Be it fighting over skin color/culture/religion or some other foolish subjective duality reason.

Now lets look at what Rumi taught after he was awoken:


Not a shred of duality in Rumi:s words. Beyond duality.

Let's look at some other prophets that have appeared around the world. Buddha, Nanak and Krishna. Why can I not see any subjective flaws in the arguments like I can when looking at the fruits of Paul and Muhammad? Are there flaws there and I am blind to it or where they perfect in their teachings.

So now I have 5 prophets who can have peace with each other:
Yeshua, Nanak, Krishna, Buddha and Rumi
And 2 prophets who say we need to respect their faith but their faith is automatically built on being disrespectful to all other faiths and them being the only faith existing:
Paul and Muhammad.
edit on 20-6-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-6-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 04:21 AM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

One of the best posts on religion I have read here. Pure in its conclusion.
edit on 20-6-2015 by Shiloh7 because: spelling mistake sorry



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 04:27 AM
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James 1 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.


Makes me think of quantum wave phenomena. The one who knows will experience synchronicity while the doubter will experience the randomness of interference wave. Tossed around by fate not knowing up from down.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 04:41 AM
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originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: LittleByLittle

One of the best posts on religion I have read here. Pure in its conclusion.


Thanks. But from my point of view you have seen the same thing and even remarked on it in other posts.


a reply to: Shiloh7


You are quoting from a part of the bible that comes from Paul and not Christ, who most people give their allegiance to.
Is it something you can rely on totally with the amount of alterations and political slants between the jewish and newly forming christian religions with their subtle differences? Warningws went out about an anti christ and paul didn't make himself a part of the disciples group which, had he been whom he claimed, surely he would have touched base with James and the others? I suspect there were a lot of politics and a great deal of resentment - which can be seen in some of the letters Paul replies to. Paul has often seemed to me to be someone climbing on the back of christianity for fame and the adoration of the people - and probably emporer. You only need to research his past to see he had a woman in tow who was regarded as holier than him and was powerful in the jewish class in rome.

edit on 20-6-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 04:47 AM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

I own to having done my research although the topic now has lost its lustre so your post was refreshing.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 06:28 AM
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a reply to: Shiloh7

One word = craziness.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73
Christianity has no room to talk about anyone elses "arrogance".



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: DeepImpactX
a reply to: Isurrender73

Is it Sunday morning in your part of the world?

I gave you a star and flag for preaching to ATS on a Friday night. That takes the guts of a lonely soul.

Believe what you will friend. If it harms none, do what you will.


The Jewish Sabath is sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. Jesus didn't change the Sabbath the Roman Catholic church did.

So I am preaching on the Sabbath.

Thanks for reminding me of that fact .



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Isurrender73
Christianity has no room to talk about anyone elses "arrogance".



I would star it as a post but it wont show the same respect as a comment

The OPs point is that the arrogant christian will fall and rightly so. God does not respect the arrogant


On a side note I casnt see the difference between those of the prosperity gospel and the 5 point calvinists fundys who believe in pre destination. Both believe they have a god on a stick.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73



God did not take away the freewill to choose, he simply decided the outcome before the choices were made.


If everything is predetermined then even our choices were predetermined, meaning they weren't choices at all but things we were forced to act out from no choice of our own. If an outcome is already decided then so is the "choice" because any choice will lead to an already determined outcome.

If the exact destination of a ball was determined before it was hit, that means the swing of the bat was too because only a certain swing of the bat will lead the ball to that exact destination.

Predestination is not free-will no matter how many flips and twists you make within your mind to convince yourself that it is so. Predestination is the anti-thesis of free-will.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:25 PM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

You understand Paul and Mohammed through the eyes of those who separate.

Niether Paul nor Mohammed taught religion. Niether Paul nor Mohammed taught ritual salvation.

Both Paul and Mohammed taught Islam. Which translates to surrender your will to God.

I know it is difficult to separate the teachings of arrogant men from the true message found in Paul's letters and the Koran. Someday I hope the world will find in them what I have found. Which is the same message of the Holy Spirit found in the other scriptures.



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

I can both separate and join together. I just do not need to join together things that should not be seen as the same thing. I can see what is Yin and what is Yang.

I do not mind submitting subjective will to the divine for the good of all souls (a symbiotic action of saying I will do no harm to the loving ones and not be a hypocrite in following the golden rule).

It is not from my point of view that Paul and Muhammad submitted to the divine. It is that Paul and Muhammad created an image of the divine and forced others to submit to their idol believing it was the divine. Creating power pyramids that they could use for their own gain.

If you can find something beautiful in them then good for you.
edit on 21-6-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle


So I should follow prophets blindly only because they call themselves prophets even if Yeshua told me not to?

You lost me in your mixing apples with oranges. Paul/Saul was not a prophet nor has Christianity ever claimed him as a prophet. Paul was chosen as a preacher to the Gentiles by Jesus and was taught by Jesus. Islam nor Buddha has the same deity as Christianity and makes no sense to compare them with one another. Christianity is unique and has nothing in common with any other.

Paul was loved by Jesus and the Apostles. To be fair would be to give comparative scriptures, in context, referencing Jesus and Paul being contrary.

I do not understand why if Peter would say that Paul was his beloved brother that others would call Paul a scoundrel without also calling Peter a scoundrel.

2Pe_3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Why would Luke mention Paul 129 times in the book of Acts if Paul were as you depict? Also why would Jesus commend Paul with approval if he were a scoundrel and against the doctrine of Jesus?

Act_23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

Act_18:9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

Why did Paul have the blessing of the church is he were against the church? Lastly is the question if one verse in the work of one author is not true then how do you approve of the rest of the book of the same author?

Apples and oranges?



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: Seede

You say it is Apple and Oranges and maybe for you it is. But 5 people clearly saw the same thing that I have seen.

You push faith and Christian faith have to be unique for you to be the way home. That is Paul:s additions not Yeshua:s teachings. The divine works on a larger scale than religion even if most humans cannot handle the divine being more than what some of the religions describe. The teachings that the divine teach are still true even if there was no religions in human society.

There is a logical place where Yeshua proves Buddha proves Nanak proves Krishna proves Rumi proves Yeshua again. Find that place and you might see the big pattern and how the divine has intervened in human history. It is a quite remarkable pattern. That is why Yeshua was an proven anointed ONE. What he taught proved what he was. The fruits of the tree proving where it comes from.
edit on 21-6-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



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