If gender is in the mind and not the body, what do you think of species dysphoria?

a reply to: Darth_Prime

Sounds like we pretty much see eye to eye. Hate and intolerance will always be around and today is actively being promoted by those who lead us as a distraction away from their own corruption, so no, it will never go away and yes we shall always be fighting it as well we should.

a reply to: BennyHavensOh

It's funny when people can have actual conversations regardless if they agree or disagree without "Buzz words" and shaming with hateful remarks and come to a respectful conclusion.

Only Love can conquer hate

a reply to: Annee

My grandson got in trouble in preschool for touching girls butts. In his mind is he "thinking" sex? Of course not, but its still a natural sexual act.

In fifth grade I recall unhooking the bra strap on girl who sat in front of me (though I was not sure then or even now why I did because I had not "figured it out" yet), and though I did not get in trouble per se, she did turn around and give me a look that I can still see fifty years later! And yes, I have a five year old daughter who walked out into the living room wearing her big sister's red dress and enough make up to look like a little hooker to which my wife and I just turned to her, smiled and told her how nice she looked, then looked at each other and said "Oh boy". The innocent experiments and activities are as you say, normal and healthy and are actually amusing and need to be treated as such. I think it is a different story sitting 4 year olds down and discussing whether or not they want to keep their penis or have it removed. Different ballgame and if you feel I am wrong it is your right, I cannot change my feelings in this regard and do not believe I should have to.

a reply to: Darth_Prime

Yes I agree, this is how it should be. When I think on it, the only real issue I ever really had against the whole gay thing was the AH's in New York who consistently did their damnest to inject their issue into the St. Patrick's Day Parade. Perhaps because it is my birthday, but more so because I always felt it was someone else's parade, leave them alone and have your own parade if you are so needing the attention. And I am not even a parade kind of person because all of the ones I marched in were always hot, sweaty, and oppressive.

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
I think it is a different story sitting 4 year olds down and discussing whether or not they want to keep their penis or have it removed. Different ballgame and if you feel I am wrong it is your right, I cannot change my feelings in this regard and do not believe I should have to.

Here is a camp for Transgender Youth: Camp Aranu'tiq; www.camparanutiq.org...

And they are expanding. This is not some made up game.

As I say: "Making a human is extremely complicated. You get a big pot, throw in all the ingredients, and stir. Even though the ingredients are all the same - - you are going to get every variation of mix".

We've evolved to know, there isn't just black and white. There is an infinity of gray.

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
a reply to: Darth_Prime

Yes I agree, this is how it should be. When I think on it, the only real issue I ever really had against the whole gay thing was the AH's in New York who consistently did their damnest to inject their issue into the St. Patrick's Day Parade. Perhaps because it is my birthday, but more so because I always felt it was someone else's parade, leave them alone and have your own parade if you are so needing the attention. And I am not even a parade kind of person because all of the ones I marched in were always hot, sweaty, and oppressive.

Are there not LGBT Irish? Should they not celebrate their heritage?

My great grandfather was "off the boat" from Ireland.

You'd have a point if other groups did not carry banners advertising what they support beyond being Irish.

a reply to: Annee

As I say: "Making a human is extremely complicated. You get a big pot, throw in all the ingredients, and stir. Even though the ingredients are all the same - - you are going to get every variation of mix".

Perhaps I have been scarred by Shelly's Frankenstein story, but I have little confidence in mankind's ability to modify our system without more problems than solutions. I have a friend who swears that we will never run out of food because 3D printers will save us, I feel differently. I consider the wonders of radioactive technology and recall Hiroshima, Fukushima, and depleted uranium ordinance fired at our "enemies".

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
I have a friend who swears that we will never run out of food because 3D printers will save us, I feel differently. I consider the wonders of radioactive technology and recall Hiroshima, Fukushima, and depleted uranium ordinance fired at our "enemies".

WOW! Really? That's crazy.

I'm a realist. A lower the population, focus on natural resources person.

WE have damaged this planet.

So, to me - - the anti-LGBT people are beyond ridiculous to the point of insanity. LGBT hurts no one. They're just people.

And neither do those who think they are a different species. Well, depending on how far they take it.

Transgender people know from youth that they feel like they were "Born Wrong". i would want my child to be able to talk to me openly without fear, and without told they are "wrong" and oppress them into depression and suicide. education on such things are not a bad thing... but again please don't think i am telling anyone how to parent, your kids, your life

Re Parades: i think the main Goal was that other "Groups" got to March and the Gay Irish heritage wanted to march under a Rainbow flag, i don' think they wanted to turn it into a "Gay Parade' but when you get pushed back the media takes over the narrative changes

a reply to: Darth_Prime


...know from youth that they feel like they were "Born Wrong

So at what point, or at what age or thereabouts can parents start discussing changing the particulars of such children? The onset of puberty? The age of reasoning whatever that might be? Just continuing the discussion, not trying to argue here. The fear I have is the same one as those parents who push their toddlers into things like serious gymnastics at too young an age only to have the little guys maimed and injured before they have had a chance to even decide what they really want to do. No matter which way you go there will be collateral damage and bad side effects and changes of heart. Heck, my 5 year old can't even decide what she wants for breakfast, how can I allow her to determine such complex issues?

I can clarify my issue with the parade. A group organizes a parade for whatever reason and another group says "we want to march in your parade too" to which the are told "NO". Hey its their parade, they said no, so go have you own parade, which I know they do. Why the battle? That is what I don't understand. And BTW I appreciate the civil discussion. You and I will probably never agree on this issue, but that should NOT mean we cannot discuss it civilly as we are doing. Thank you.

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh

The fear I have is the same one as those parents who push their toddlers into things like serious gymnastics at too young an age only to have the little guys maimed and injured before they have had a chance to even decide what they really want to do.

Isn't that more like living through your kid? Like a stage mom?

a reply to: Annee

We see a lot of it though here in West Jersey and I have always been very involved in our community and our school system. Of course we also have a lot of 7:00 am Before School Care drop offs and 6:00 pm After School Care pick ups as well, which IMHO and our experience, has some serious side effects which are evident with the 4th and 5th graders.

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
a reply to: Annee

We see a lot of it though here in West Jersey and I have always been very involved in our community and our school system. Of course we also have a lot of 7:00 am Before School Care drop offs and 6:00 pm After School Care pick ups as well, which IMHO and our experience, has some serious side effects which are evident with the 4th and 5th graders.

I'm here on the So CA beaches. Not too far from Hollywood. Competition here is fierce.

I'm from here. I lived in AZ for a while. The difference between AZ and CA is striking in business. Employees in SOCA do not chit chat with each other when waiting on a customer. Its a weird contrast. In AZ the employees casually had conversations about their family, etc while working and waiting on customers.

Anyway, yes - - very much emphasis on "over achieving" here, by everyone. Parents and kids.

a reply to: Annee

Because I was so fortunate to have been allowed to have a childhood in all of its naiveté, I will always be of the opinion that this is the greatest gift we can give to our children.

Rosebud.......

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
a reply to: Annee

Because I was so fortunate to have been allowed to have a childhood in all of its naiveté, I will always be of the opinion that this is the greatest gift we can give to our children.

Rosebud.......

I dunno. Yes, I had the childhood of "be home when the streetlights come on". But,there was a lot of ignorance, and keeping stuff behind closed doors.

Innocence or naïveté? Not necessarily the same thing.

I actually prefer the progression of knowledge and openess.

It's a tough world. I'm not raising a child, I'm raising a future adult.

a reply to: BennyHavensOh

Yes, i love discussions when civil so thank you too

I don't know the 'correct age' not being a parent i have no experience in that, my Childhood was beyond hell and i vowed if i ever had kids it would be nothing like that. i'm sure you can find articles all over the internet debating their point, some with Bias, and some without... though i think you could start with Gender in general, the "Surgery" doesn't have to be talked about right away.


Re Parades: now since i'm not from New York, i'm talking from the outside, but i think it was more of you let other groups march, why can't we be a part of it and celebrate Gay Irish Heritage. i think because they were denied only because they were a gay group is when it turned into an equality issue

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
I'm talking from the outside, but i think it was more of you let other groups march, why can't we be a part of it and celebrate Gay Irish Heritage. i think because they were denied only because they were a gay group is when it turned into an equality issue

They were going to allow them in the parade, but would not let them carry a banner representing who they are.

One of the arguments was the Boy Scouts marched in the parade. Not to represent the Irish, but to promote Boy Scouts.

And firemen --- which has nothing specific to do with being Irish.

a reply to: Annee

Thank you,

which is still discrimination based on the fact others could promote their group and not let others because you may not agree with their cause.

A question comes to mind while we are on the subject and that is if a person is looking for a mate and chooses not to consider a transgendered person as an option, how might they limit their potential for surprise down the road? For a convincing argument can be made for deception and mistrust in the sexual arenas of any age. I wonder this mostly for the consideration of those people wanting to have children possibilities that many people, especially younger people choose to do as they age, assuming transgenders cannot birth or inseminate. If they can then my point is moot, but I do not know if they can or not. The complication that this adds to an already murky task of finding a suitable mate under previous circumstances has me being very grateful for being a lot closer to the end of my life than the beginning. I might also ask whether people should be allowed to not want a transgendered partner or would this qualify as a form or prejudice? Considering how dramatically the theater of sex, dating, and mating has become knowing the ground rules could save a lot of people a lot of trouble.

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
. . . .how might they limit their potential for surprise down the road? For a convincing argument can be made for deception and mistrust in the sexual arenas of any age.

It's always been a perilous guessing game of trust in finding a life partner.

We all hope the person we are interested in is "upfront" honest and trustworthy.