Tired of grand theories, just do what you want

originally posted by: stosh64
So, just "do what thou wilt"?

That mentality is working out so well for the world.

84% of the world's population are religious so I'd say the current mentality isn't working out so well.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: bb23108

The point is that "heart-Source, Conscious Light" wants to feel loved and protected as well as beaten and raped. Want to be the loving caring person as well as the rapist.

And this is based on what - your direct recognition of the Source? Or are you basing this on some mental conceptions like how the original post seems to be?

originally posted by: bb23108
And this is based on what - your direct recognition of the Source? Or are you basing this on some mental conceptions such as how the original post is?

I'm just saying that that is the point of the thread.

You seemed to be focused on the personal when it seems to me that both you and the OP seem to agree that life is about some "great being" experiencing through material existence. It only seems natural that if that is the case that it might want to experience the full spectrum.

a reply to: daskakik

I speak from my beliefs.
Of course i believe on a great being, and i believe we are all IT. Its now separate from us, it is not our commander, it is us.

And he wants to live it all.

originally posted by: Manula
I speak from my beliefs.
Of course i believe on a great being, and i believe we are all IT. Its now separate from us, it is not our commander, it is us.

And this sounds similar to bb23108's "Source" and even the ends are generally the same, experience the material world, but somewhere, somehow you found a way to disagree.

And he wants to live it all.

How many times does it need to feel a hug or a punch before it gets it?

a reply to: daskakik

I think i have the right and the freedom to believe whatever i want.

Do you know the meaning of it all?

I don't, but it doesn't stop me from believing something.

I searched and studied a lot.

Its not something i suddenly said to myself: Oh its this...

No, did a lot of reading, talked to people, ive been through stuff that made believe what i believe now, but hey, i can change my mind anytime.

originally posted by: Manula
I think i have the right and the freedom to believe whatever i want.

Nobody said you didn't.

I'm just pointing out why I don't buy into the premise of your thread. The point of posting this was to discuss it, wasn't it?

a reply to: daskakik

Of course, lets discuss it

originally posted by: Manula
a reply to: daskakik

Of course, lets discuss it

I get the idea of experiencing all sides of life but why would the great being have to repeat things so many times?

originally posted by: Manula
And he wants to live it all.

Have you ever been really physically abused? No being truly wants to live that!

It seems to me that you are creating belief systems to justify what goes on in the world - as though some Creator-God or One Being is doing all this. There is no such Creator-God - it is just an idea man created to gain some sense of security about what is happening here.

And there is no One Being doing ANY of this.

Body-minds are doing all of this - causing all this terrible destruction of our planet, hurting and killing, etc., etc. It is MAN in his false presumption of separation from everything that gets aberrated - not some One Being or Creator-God-Idea. We are all responsible for this!

The Divine is radically different from these conventional man-made notions. Thank God!

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: bb23108
And this is based on what - your direct recognition of the Source? Or are you basing this on some mental conceptions such as how the original post is?

I'm just saying that that is the point of the thread.

You seemed to be focused on the personal when it seems to me that both you and the OP seem to agree that life is about some "great being" experiencing through material existence. It only seems natural that if that is the case that it might want to experience the full spectrum.

See my reply to Manula. No great being wants to experience anything. We are responsible for all this insanity we find in the world today. I certainly don't see where I communicated that I agreed with any concept that some great being wanted to experience Life from every possible point of view and so this is what we are doing. That is simply a way of justifying, or at least trying to explain, the insanity that man does.

Unfortunately, these kind of explanations tend to lay the blame on some great Being or Creator-God, rather than on ourselves.

a reply to: bb23108

I guess it was the use of words like Source, Conscious Light that made me think that you implied some greater force.

What's the "Source" mean to you?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: bb23108

I guess it was the use of words like Source, Conscious Light that made me think that you implied some greater force.

What's the "Source" to you?

Consciousness (aka Conscious Light, God, Unconditional Indivisible Reality, Conscious-Love-Bliss, Feeling-Awareness, Being). I like using the word Reality as it is "non-denominational".

Unconditional Indivisible Reality is the "substance" or "medium" (Unconditional Consciousness-Light) that all conditions are a "stepped down" modification of. Reality is not separate from anything, but also is not causally related to anything. Yes, it sounds paradoxical to the mind, but once one recognizes the Truth of this, it is obvious in the moment of that recognition, that Reality is the non-separate and mere Witness of all conditions.

We can tacitly recognize this in any moment that we simply resort to being who we are - Awareness or Consciousness Itself. Awareness is the living feeling unconditional being that is not separate from Reality Itself. It is our body-minds and endless other conditional beings that are creating all the effects in the worlds, high and low.

However, Awareness (who we most fundamentally are) has become associated with the body-mind through the mechanism of attention, and has come to believe it is the body-mind, or at least some separate sense of self within the body-mind, generally called "I" or the soul - or in the case of materialists, awareness is some emergent by-product of the brain-mind.

Regardless, this separate sense of "I" is just the mechanism of attention constantly focusing on objects and creating a sense of self. It is an illusion, but given all the dogma and lifetimes that support this illusion, we have gotten caught up in believing it.

We are most fundamentally feeling-being, feeling-awareness. When this is noticed and lived consistently, Reality reveals Itself to the heart, to the whole body-mind, as unconditional Love, and this is the foundation of true morality. The thread in my sig goes into more details if you like.

a reply to: bb23108

Nothing in this post or the thread in your sig conveys a reason why you would think the idea presented by the OP is inconceivable, other than who is behind it.

I see him saying "we are all it and it is behind all this".

I see you saying "we are all one and we are behind this".

Seems to lead to the same place to me.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: bb23108

Nothing in this post or the thread in your sig conveys a reason why you would think the idea presented by the OP is inconceivable, other than who is behind it.

I see him saying "we are all it and it is behind all this".

I see you saying "we are all one and we are behind this".

Seems to lead to the same place to me.

These two statements are very different. Let me try again to explain...

Manula is saying:
"I'm sure the great being, of which you are part of, will be happy"

In other words, Manula seems to be saying that there is some great being somewhere that is pleased with us no matter what is done, as long as we do what we want to.

Ultimately, we are not separate from indivisible Reality, but this does not make body-minds perfect in their action. Quite the contrary is the case in this realm - I mean, look at this place, what humans are doing. Is that in any way perfect?

We are obviously separate from one another as body-minds, but in terms of our most fundamental being, awareness itself, we are ultimately the same Consciousness. This however does not justify what body-minds do when presuming separation, independence, egoity, unlove and all the rest of our mistaken notions.

Only in recognizing and persisting in the unity of Consciousness does our inherent non-separation awaken the heart to what is true and right action - and that is very often NOT what the body-mind, in all of its accumulated bs and egoic patterning, is wanting to do!

To think body-minds are doing what is true and right is obviously not correct - just look at the news and tell me otherwise. As an earlier poster pointed out - people are already doing what they want, and look at what is going on.

To say this pleases some great being is ludicrous to me, and shows little understanding of what the egoic patterning of the body-mind over endless lifetimes can become capable of, if not countered with the heart's inherent love and morality.

originally posted by: bb23108

Have you ever been really physically abused? No being truly wants to live that!

And if everyone is one with God, that means God is also the abused and poor who don't want to suffer, so neither does God; which is my argument against the original post, that people should do what they want (without conditions such as Compassion).

originally posted by: bb23108
In other words, Manula seems to be saying that there is some great being somewhere that is pleased with us no matter what is done, as long as we do what we want to.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Manula is saying that we are "part" of that great being.

Ultimately, we are not separate from indivisible Reality, but this does not make body-minds perfect in their action. Quite the contrary is the case in this realm - I mean, look at this place, what humans are doing. Is that in any way perfect?

Depends on what the goal is.

We are obviously separate from one another as body-minds, but in terms of our most fundamental being, awareness itself, we are ultimately the same Consciousness.

That right there is what I think Manula is saying.

This however does not justify what body-minds do when presuming separation, independence, egoity, unlove and all the rest of our mistaken notions.

And this is where you guys disagree. He seems to think it is justified because that is the goal. ETA: The purpose of life.

To say this pleases some great being is ludicrous to me, and shows little understanding of what the egoic patterning of the body-mind over endless lifetimes can become capable of, if not countered with the heart's inherent love and morality.

And this is where you get lumped in with the love and light brigade.

Why would all of this diversity exist, if it were not useful?
Don´t we learn by doing the wrong thing?
Isn't it possible that living all sides of the story will make you more complete, than just being the good, light and love, guy?
To become a saint, you must be a sinner first...
To know what love really is, you must also know what hate is.
To know anything deeply, you must also know its opposite, so what better way than live it, be the good guy and the bad guy, its all US, THE GREAT BEING, isn't it wonderful?

originally posted by: Manula
Why would all of this diversity exist, if it were not useful?
Don´t we learn by doing the wrong thing?
Isn't it possible that living all sides of the story will make you more complete, than just being the good, light and love, guy?
To become a saint, you must be a sinner first...
To know what love really is, you must also know what hate is.
To know anything deeply, you must also know its opposite, so what better way than live it, be the good guy and the bad guy, its all US, THE GREAT BEING, isn't it wonderful?

Ask God. It is reason you exist to describe itself to itself (I heard it divided itself into 3 trillion particle souls) in order to understand its own being. How long is this going to take?

Grand theories are just paintings of the bigger picture, but the hard part is just trying to fill it with the small things for details.