Tired of grand theories, just do what you want

originally posted by: Specimen
Grand theories are just paintings of the bigger picture, but the hard part is just trying to fill it with the small things for details.

That is YOUR job.

originally posted by: daskakik
Depends on what the goal is.

If the goal is to destroy our environment and others, we are well on our way!

originally posted by: daskakik
And this is where you guys disagree. He seems to think it is justified because that is the goal. ETA: The purpose of life.

The purpose of life is to transcend this lie we are sucked into believing - that we are separate, independent entities living here for our own sake only. We are clearly dependent and connected but few live on this actual basis, so the illusion of separate self gets forever perpetuated - including twists like Manula's posts - that we need to be evil to learn what is good; that without hate there is no love - and all that kind of bs. It just isn't necessary. I know this directly, not from reading books, etc., though that certainly can help. We don't need any experience to be what we already are - we just need to constantly stop creating self-imposed limits within the body-mind, in order to recognize the bare truth of our existence, and allow Reality to reveal itself.

But if people want to get caught up in self-imposed requirements to become something else based on what the egoic body-mind desires, because they believe some great being takes pleasure in it, or whatever, that is their business.

originally posted by: daskakik
And this is where you get lumped in with the love and light brigade.

You clearly don't know what I am talking about given this lame comment.

originally posted by: bb23108
If the goal is to destroy our environment and others, we are well on our way!

Ok.

The purpose of life is to transcend this lie we are sucked into believing - that we are separate, independent entities living here for our own sake only. We are clearly dependent and connected but few live on this actual basis, so the illusion of separate self gets forever perpetuated - including twists like Manula's posts - that we need to be evil to learn what is good; that without hate there is no love - and all that kind of bs. It just isn't necessary. I know this directly, not from reading books, etc., though that certainly can help. We don't need any experience to be what we already are - we just need to constantly stop creating self-imposed limits within the body-mind, in order to recognize the bare truth of our existence, and allow Reality to reveal itself.

I also know some stuff that wasn't learned through reading.

But if people want to get caught up in self-imposed requirements to become something else based on what the egoic body-mind desires, because they believe some great being takes pleasure in it, or whatever, that is their business.

True.

You clearly don't know what I am talking about given this lame comment.

I know what you are talking about but I disagree.

originally posted by: Manula
Why would all of this diversity exist, if it were not useful?
Don´t we learn by doing the wrong thing?
Isn't it possible that living all sides of the story will make you more complete, than just being the good, light and love, guy?
To become a saint, you must be a sinner first...
To know what love really is, you must also know what hate is.
To know anything deeply, you must also know its opposite, so what better way than live it, be the good guy and the bad guy, its all US, THE GREAT BEING, isn't it wonderful?

It sounds to me that you need to get out more and experience actual life. Consider serving in an insane asylum or take care of the dreadfully impoverished handicapped people, serve the sick and dying. You must still be fairly young. This world is not a utopia and will never be one. You are living in a world of concepts it seems to me rather than actually experiencing some real harshness in life.

So in order to love you figure you must hate as much as possible?

To become a saint you transcend yourself in God through moment to moment surrender - you don't first become a sinner and then somehow not sin. What books have you been reading?

To know good you have to be bad? What does all of this actually equate to in your life?

You are just conceptualizing these patterns and the longer you dwell on this kind of thinking the more it will become your reality. You become what you meditate on, my friend.

originally posted by: daskakik
I also know some stuff that wasn't learned through reading.

I know what you are talking about but I disagree.

I'm all ears.

a reply to: bb23108

Your view seems to be very earth-centric. Humanity can die off tomorrow and life on this planet would still continue and even the whole planet can fall into the sun and the rest of the universe will still go on about its business. That to me trivializes the idea of living as seperate entities or realizing that we are connected and interdependent.

Even if this was the truth, this little trip into individuality might be a much needed break from that "reality".

I agree with the OP as far as life being meant to be experienced in full, the good and the bad but, I disagree that it is to fill a single beings memory banks, for the reason I gave earlier. To me it makes more sense that there might be millions or maybe even billions of beings wanting to know what it's like to experience this life.

a reply to: Manula


Sound like you want to be atheist. PM me and we can talk.

originally posted by: bb23108

It sounds to me that you need to get out more and experience actual life. Consider serving in an insane asylum or take care of the dreadfully impoverished handicapped people, serve the sick and dying. You must still be fairly young. This world is not a utopia and will never be one. You are living in a world of concepts it seems to me rather than actually experiencing some real harshness in life.

Life appears in everyway. If you have experienced insane asylums or taken care of the dreadfully impoverished handicapped people or served the sick and dying - then you have seen that aspect. Have you seen trees and flowers, the sky, kittens or puppies? Absolutely everything is experienced here. If there was only the things that you want then it would not be unconditional - if there appears to be a you that wants it to be a certain way, it is that you that has conditions so it is that you that will suffer from it not being what you expect it to be.
A wiseman once said - 'You suffer because you want what you do not have and don't want what you do have - all you need to do is turn it around and the suffering will stop'.
The world is they way it is (then labelling starts and those labels are bought into), what is actually happening is happening. Can the expectations and comparisons be seen through? If they are not there will be suffering.

This world is not a utopia and will never be one.

The 'world' is seen through the eyes of separation and will never appear to be utopia but if one sees with the single eye it is paradise.
You appear to be worrying about another time and place - you are not seeing and hearing what actually IS.

You become what you meditate on, my friend.

You cannot 'become' any thing.
You are what is.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: bb23108
Your view seems to be very earth-centric. Humanity can die off tomorrow and life on this planet would still continue and even the whole planet can fall into the sun and the rest of the universe will still go on about its business. That to me trivializes the idea of living as seperate entities or realizing that we are connected and interdependent.

We live on the earth, so let's start here. People are always looking to escape this world because it is difficult. But to truly transcend our separative illusions, we must fully embrace our actual circumstance here. Once this plane is understood, there is plenty more to transcend in the higher realms if that is where one manifests.

What you don't seem to understand is that I am not saying to avoid any experience. But why would anyone want to inflict pain on another and then justify it with some idealistic notion of "It's okay because I'm just being the bad guy right now. Now you should enjoy your role as my victim." Yeah, right. The op should talk to some poor rape victims.

But this is what the op seems to be saying - and if you agree with this notion, then you clearly don't understand what I am saying.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
The 'world' is seen through the eyes of separation and will never appear to be utopia but if one sees with the single eye it is paradise.

Yes, ultimately all of this is Light, but if you think that this earth plane is a paradise when body-minds brutally torture and kill others, then you are living in a cloud of idealism that typically leads to inaction and certainly insensitivity to the plight of many.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
You appear to be worrying about another time and place - you are not seeing and hearing what actually IS.

No worries about another time and place - I am very sensitive to what is happening here. You should embrace this event with your whole body-mind, not just via some mental insight that you have about perception.

FEEL this whole situation - don't just look at it in some kind of "wholistic" perceptual mentalized manner.

originally posted by: bb23108
We live on the earth, so let's start here. People are always looking to escape this world because it is difficult. But to truly transcend our separative illusions, we must fully embrace our actual circumstance here. Once this plane is understood, there is plenty more to transcend in the higher realms if that is where one manifests.

Let's start what? What you said is important, in the grand scheme of things, is not.

What you don't seem to understand is that I am not saying to avoid any experience. But why would anyone want to inflict pain on another and then justify it with some idealistic notion of "It's okay because I'm just being the bad guy right now. Now you should enjoy your role as my victim." Yeah, right. The op should talk to some poor rape victims.

I think you are the one that is having a hard time grasping what the OP is saying. Oh and I understand it but I don't fully agree with it either.

All human experience will become part of a single Consciousness. This being will then have both the POV of the rapist and the rape victim and every other life experience.

But this is what the op seems to be saying - and if you agree with this notion, then you clearly don't understand what I am saying.

Do you think that if someone understands what you are saying that they will automatically agree with it? That isn't how it works.

originally posted by: daskakik
Let's start what? What you said is important, in the grand scheme of things, is not.

So, pray tell, what is the grand scheme of things?

originally posted by: daskakik
All human experience will become part of a single Consciousness. This being will then have both the POV of the rapist and the rape victim and every other life experience.

You see, this is an example of your misunderstanding of what I am saying. There is no great being with a single consciousness. This is how many minds conceive such a one to be - as some kind of discreet being everyone is part of. No such being exists in these terms, accumulating memories, experiences, etc. This is similar to the same conventions that conceive of the Creator-God-Idea. These are myths of the mind.

originally posted by: daskakik
Do you think that if someone understands what you are saying that they will automatically agree with it? That isn't how it works.

Of course not. But if they agree with what the op is saying, they clearly don't recognize something about (the source of) morality and love.

And as I just mentioned, you don't understand what I am saying about Consciousness. Maybe you will, but clearly from your comments here, you have not yet. You keep saying you do, but if you did you would see I am not speaking in the same terms as the op.

And I will certainly concede that this is a difficult matter to describe and I am probably not doing it justice - but fundamentally, one actually needs to find this out themselves directly.

originally posted by: bb23108
So, pray tell, what is the grand scheme of things?

Already posted it. The universe is a bigger event/scheme/happening than earth.

You see, this is an example of your misunderstanding of what I am saying. There is no great being with a single consciousness. This is how many minds conceive such a one to be - as some kind of discreet being everyone is part of. No such being exists in these terms, accumulating memories, experiences, etc. This is similar to the same conventions that conceive of the Creator-God-Idea. These are myths of the mind.

I said, it's what the OP said.

Of course not. But if they agree with what the op is saying, they clearly don't recognize something about (the source of) morality and love.

You mean that other myth of the mind?

And as I just mentioned, you don't understand what I am saying about Consciousness. Maybe you will, but clearly from your comments here, you have not yet. You keep saying you do, but if you did you would see I am not speaking in the same terms as the op.

What part of I understand but I disagree is giving you the hardest time?

And I will certainly concede that this is a difficult matter to describe and I am probably not doing it justice - but fundamentally, one actually needs to find this out themselves directly.

If you had actually done that you would understand why I don't try to "tell" people what "reality" is.

originally posted by: daskakik
Already posted it. The universe is a bigger event/scheme/happening than earth.

And so? Are you saying that we are so insignificant that we should not bother with anything? What exactly is your point?

originally posted by: daskakik
I said, it's what the OP said.

You were addressing me. Re-read your posts in response to me.

originally posted by: daskakik
You mean that other myth of the mind?

And as I said, you simply will have to discover this for yourself.

originally posted by: daskakik
What part of I understand but I disagree is giving you the hardest time?

I understand you disagree, but that is basically all you say with your one-liners. Where is your actual argument against what I described as Reality a page or so ago, for instance?

Just picking apart someone's argument with a few one-liners is not helpful. Where is your real argument, some depth of consideration here? What is your view of Reality, taking into account the theme of this thread, etc. I actually went back and reread your posts, and you have actually not contributed much other than mainly some one-liners about what a few of us have said.

originally posted by: daskakik
If you had actually done that you would understand why I don't try to "tell" people what "reality" is.

But that is exactly what you are doing by telling us what it is not!

originally posted by: bb23108
And so? Are you saying that we are so insignificant that we should not bother with anything? What exactly is your point?

I'm saying that the things you are pointing out as being important are not.

You were addressing me. Re-read your posts in response to me.

Sure was, about the OP's point. What the OP was saying.

I said that I made a mistake saying that you believed in a greater being back on page 3.

And as I said, you simply will have to discover this for yourself.

Already have and went past it.

I understand you disagree, but that is basically all you say with your one-liners. Where is your actual argument against what I described as Reality a page or so ago, for instance?

There isn't one. It has to be experienced.

But that is exactly what you are doing by telling us what it is not!

I'm telling you that your argument is not as tight as you think it is and that other possiblilites are still viable. There is a difference.

originally posted by: daskakik
I said that I made a mistake saying that you believed in a greater being back on page 3.

Clearly, you don't understand my argument. There is only Being, not a greater being. See my description again.

originally posted by: daskakik
Already have and went past it.

There isn't one. It has to be experienced.

So that is your argument in its entirety?

originally posted by: bb23108
Clearly, you don't understand my argument. There is only Being, not a greater being. See my description again.

I was restating the OP's argument, not yours.

So that is your argument in its entirety?

I don't have one other than, "what I experienced doesn't jive with what you are saying".

Forget about the great being if it bothers you, just be who you really are, follow your will and your inner voice, be your unique self.

We didnt create ourselves, we are not to blame for our tendencies, we can only be who we are, follow our inner guide, theres nothing we can do.

The lion will act like a lion and the snake will act like the snake, and the dog will like the dog.
I am not saying we dont evolve, we do evolve, thats the way, but we evolve by doing stuff we want to do, by living according to our unique way of being.

I´m saying, let people be as they are, no one is to blame, people just don't know why they do what they do, i cant really say why i am a good guy most of the times and why i get really angry and nervous sometimes.

Its just who i am, i can change with time, but its a natural process, life will change me, i just have to be myself and live what i want to live and changes will occur, i just have to exist and be me.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: stosh64

kosmicjack: Ah, yeah...
Pretty much what got us to this point: broken and beyond redemption.

Nah, once this debacle of enduring physicality 3D on this planet *subscripted to* is all over everyone has the gift of a more individualized soul living in ETERNITY: of questioning (purpose for this experiment) etc. Its exciting/daunting/challenging. Do I want to reincarnate, will there be bodies enough available to occupy; adrenalin rush through the roof. Something is unbalanced as you say may be broken but I trust the Universe to adjust the teeder-todder fulcrum point. Thank you btw for a prior accolade.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
originally posted by: bb23108

Itisnowagain: A wiseman once said - 'You suffer because you want what you do not have and don't want what you do have - all you need to do is turn it around and the suffering will stop'.

Walk away and be oneself uninfluenced by anyone; in order to create yourself you must focus upon your own being; some say disregard the Egocentric individualization of your being. I say embrace it (it defines your soul identity).

Itsnowagain: The world is they way it is (then labelling starts and those labels are bought into), what is actually happening is happening. Can the expectations and comparisons be seen through? If they are not there will be suffering.

bb23108:
This world is not a utopia and will never be one.

And there lies the point. This world is just a mirror/mirage in a physical heavy matter state. The real world exists in the higher dimensions.

Itsnowagain: The 'world' is seen through the eyes of separation and will never appear to be utopia but if one sees with the single eye it is paradise. You appear to be worrying about another time and place - you are not seeing and hearing what actually IS.

bb23108:
You become what you meditate on, my friend.

Itsnowagain: You cannot 'become' any thing. You are what is.

One is allowed to change anything; one is as your spirit has the gift of free/will or allowance to grow.