Obama: A private school education leads to "an anti-government ideology."

a reply to: infolurker

Which public school is it his kids attend, again?

Second line.

a reply to: infolurker

So, am I reading this right.

If I send my kid to private school for a better education then I am "ROBBING" opportunity from other kids. I am supposed to send my kid to "stupid school" so my kid has less opportunity for success?

No, you are not reading it right. What he actually said that it is, in part "an anti-government ideology" which leads to more kids going to private schools. A true fact. Those that can afford private schools, send them to private schools in large part because they don't think that public schools (government schools) can do as good a job. He's right and he should know. He did, after all, graduate from Punahou. One of the top prep schools in the country. Can a public school provide the same level of education?

Just in case anyone is interested in the full context (which I doubt):
www.whitehouse.gov...

Now, that’s not inevitable. A free market is perfectly compatible with also us making investment in good public schools, public universities; investments in public parks; investments in a whole bunch -- public infrastructure that grows our economy and spreads it around. But that’s, in part, what’s been under attack for the last 30 years. And so, in some ways, rather than soften the edges of the market, we’ve turbocharged it. And we have not been willing, I think, to make some of those common investments so that everybody can play a part in getting opportunity.

a reply to: Phage

And I ask again ... because I am sending my kid off to a private school, is that damaging the public ones? All my property taxes are still going to the public schools, and if my kid was going to those schools, it's not like I would be "investing" the tuition I am spending to send him to private school into the public ones.

a reply to: ketsuko

And I ask again ... because I am sending my kid off to a private school, is that damaging the public ones?

Nope. And Obama did not say it is. He said the problem is a lack of political will to improve public schools. He said absolutely nothing against private schools.

I will be willing to answer it, but I think it is important for us at the outset to acknowledge if, in fact, we are going to find common ground, then we also have to acknowledge that there are certain investments we are willing to make as a society, as a whole, in public schools and public universities; in, today, I believe early childhood education; in making sure that economic opportunity is available in communities that are isolated, and that somebody can get a job, and that there’s actually a train that takes folks to where the jobs are -- that broadband lines are in rural communities and not just in cities. And those things are not going to happen through market forces alone.

He did, however say that, "concentrations of wealth" can be detrimental to the public good. Do you disagree? The topic the President was discussing was poverty, after all (not "indoctrination" by private schools). And public vs private education is pretty deeply entwined with poverty.

Now, what has happened is, is that since, let’s say, 1973, over the last 40 years, the share of income going to the bottom 90 percent has shrunk from about 65 percent down to about 53 percent.

www.whitehouse.gov...

a reply to: infolurker

And where does Obama's kids go? It's NOT fine and dandy that people like him have a "it's OK when we do it, but not when you do it" mentality.

a reply to: 2Spooky4Me
Maybe you can point out where Obama said there is anything wrong with people sending their kids to private schools?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: 2Spooky4Me
Maybe you can point out where Obama said there is anything wrong with people sending their kids to private schools?

It is right there in the OP.

kids start going to private schools; kids start working out at private clubs instead of the public parks. An anti-government ideology then disinvests from those common goods and those things that draw us together. And that, in part, contributes to the fact that there’s less opportunity for our kids, all of our kids.

He is pointing out what he perceives private schools do to harm all kids, he states less opportunity for our kids. All because people send kids to private schools like he went to.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

It is right there in the OP.

No. What is "right there in the OP" is an out of context statement.

He said that more kids going to private schools is the result of anti-government thinking, not the cause. Looking around ATS, that would seem to be the case.

He said that anti-government thinking leads to a lack of will to improve public schools.

a reply to: Phage

You know what? I would dearly love to improve public schools, but right now, policy does not allow for people at the grass roots level to make any impact because the federal government has more or less taken control of just about everything that has any importance in public schooling.

If he wants to make improvement in education, he ought to turn it back over to the localities so that parents could actually get involved and make a real difference at the level of the grass roots.

Do you know something else that private schools allow? A LOT of parent involvement. We can get involved heavily in our kids' education and make a real difference at every level. You can't do that in the public schools. Ask the folks who showed up to the Fairfax School Board meeting to protest a policy change and were greeted by cops. Ask the folks who are working against the worst bits of Common Core and are having to organize at the level of the state house, not the simple PTA.

a reply to: ketsuko

If he wants to make improvement in education, he ought to turn it back over to the localities so that parents could actually get involved and make a real difference at the level of the grass roots.

I agree the public school system is pretty well broken. In my locality the infrastructure alone is a disgrace. The feds don't have much to do with that. I pulled my child out of public school because the teachers' union demanded (and got) contract concessions which required public schools to be closed one Friday each month (because there was not enough money to pay them). That same union makes it all but impossible to remove bad teachers. Low wages make it all but impossible to hire good teachers.

Do you know something else that private schools allow? A LOT of parent involvement. We can get involved heavily in our kids' education and make a real difference at every level.

Yes, I know. I also know that it has nothing to do with the claim that Obama said that private schools instill anti-government sentiments.

Ask the folks who are working against the worst bits of Common Core and are having to organize at the level of the state house, not the simple PTA.

Yes, I know a lot of teachers don't like Common Core. But I don't know what that has to do with Obama.

a reply to: Phage

Simply this:

If he wants people back in the public schools, he needs to make them something people want their kids to be in. He can't do that until certain policies are removed and the teachers' unions are busted. But he won't do that. He seems to think Common Core is great, and the teachers' unions invested a lot in getting him elected.

a reply to: ketsuko

If he wants people back in the public schools, he needs to make them something people want their kids to be in.

Yes. Except that it's up to him. Because it isn't. It's up to Congress, it's up to states, it's up to localities.

Now, that’s not inevitable. A free market is perfectly compatible with also us making investment in good public schools, public universities; investments in public parks; investments in a whole bunch -- public infrastructure that grows our economy and spreads it around. But that’s, in part, what’s been under attack for the last 30 years. And so, in some ways, rather than soften the edges of the market, we’ve turbocharged it. And we have not been willing, I think, to make some of those common investments so that everybody can play a part in getting opportunity.

But of course, it's the President's fault because he controls everything. In any case, everything will be better after next year, right?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ketsuko

If he wants people back in the public schools, he needs to make them something people want their kids to be in.

Yes. Except that it's up to him. Because it isn't. It's up to Congress, it's up to states, it's up to localities.

Now, that’s not inevitable. A free market is perfectly compatible with also us making investment in good public schools, public universities; investments in public parks; investments in a whole bunch -- public infrastructure that grows our economy and spreads it around. But that’s, in part, what’s been under attack for the last 30 years. And so, in some ways, rather than soften the edges of the market, we’ve turbocharged it. And we have not been willing, I think, to make some of those common investments so that everybody can play a part in getting opportunity.

But of course, it's the President's fault because he controls everything. In any case, everything will be better after next year, right?

It very much seems that you are taking this personally. I will give you that his statements could be taken a different way, only if you are very sympathetic to his point of view but the average person will take his statements for what they say at face value, private schools are bad and poor performing public schools are the answer. Can you admit that people can look at his statement and take it that way without being someone with an evil agenda?

a reply to: TinfoilTP

It very much seems that you are taking this personally.

Nope. I just don't like to see people taking things out of context.

I will give you that his statements could be taken a different way, only if you are very sympathetic to his point of view but the average person will take his statements for what they say at face value, private schools are bad and poor performing public schools are the answer.

I don't agree. Because only the "average person" who has a chip on his shoulder will accept an out of context statement at face value and won't try to understand what he was actually talking about. I went to private school. I am not "anti-government" (not exactly "pro-government" either, wary would be a better word). For crying out loud, Obama went to private school, is he "anti-government?" The whole idea that he actually meant what the OP claims is ludicrous.

Can you admit that people can look at his statement and take it that way without being someone with an evil agenda?

Yes. But who said anything about an agenda? However, I won't admit that they aren't lazy enough to accept the claims of the OP without actually looking at the entire context.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

It very much seems that you are taking this personally.

Nope. I just don't like to see people taking things out of context.

I will give you that his statements could be taken a different way, only if you are very sympathetic to his point of view but the average person will take his statements for what they say at face value, private schools are bad and poor performing public schools are the answer.

I don't agree. Because only the "average person" who has a chip on his shoulder will accept an out of context statement at face value and won't try to understand what he was actually talking about. I went to private school. I am not "anti-government" (not exactly "pro-government" either, wary would be a better word). For crying out loud, Obama went to private school, is he "anti-government?" The whole idea that he actually meant what the OP claims is ludicrous.

Can you admit that people can look at his statement and take it that way without being someone with an evil agenda?

Yes. But who said anything about an agenda? However, I won't admit that they aren't lazy enough to accept the claims of the OP without actually looking at the entire context.

Ok, I see where you are coming from but can you see where others perspectives see it as defending a poorly presented argument not by you but by the President?
He does come from private schooling. He states private schooling is bad to the whole in a round about way. Not very good communication is the very least you should be able agree upon by our President?

a reply to: TinfoilTP

He states private schooling is bad to the whole in a round about way.

Since I'm sure you've read the entire piece, can you point out where he said that? I didn't see it.

What he actually said is that an anti-government attitude does nothing to help alleviate poverty.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

He states private schooling is bad to the whole in a round about way.

Since I'm sure you've read the entire piece, can you point out where he said that? I didn't see it.

What he actually said is that an anti-government attitude does nothing to help alleviate poverty.

You read the same thing as me, you understood it differently. I took it for what he said. He says people go private then they adopt anti government ideology. That is the chronology of his statements.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

You read the same thing as me, you understood it differently. I took it for what he said.

I read all of what he said, not just one sentence. He was talking about poverty and income inequality.

He says people go private then they adopt anti government ideology.

And what’s happened in our economy is that those who are doing better and better -- more skilled, more educated, luckier, having greater advantages -- are withdrawing from sort of the commons -- kids start going to private schools; kids start working out at private clubs instead of the public parks. An anti-government ideology then disinvests from those common goods and those things that draw us together.

He says that income inequality is leading to anti-government sentiments because those at the high end are withdrawing from the rest because they don't need to partake of the "commons." They are separating themselves more and more.

That is what he said. Yes, going to private schools is part of it, it is part of that divestiture. It is not the cause of it the cause, he says, is people at the high end retreating into their own society.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

You read the same thing as me, you understood it differently. I took it for what he said.

I read all of what he said, not just one sentence. He was talking about poverty and income inequality.

He says people go private then they adopt anti government ideology.

And what’s happened in our economy is that those who are doing better and better -- more skilled, more educated, luckier, having greater advantages -- are withdrawing from sort of the commons -- kids start going to private schools; kids start working out at private clubs instead of the public parks. An anti-government ideology then disinvests from those common goods and those things that draw us together.

He says that income inequality is leading to anti-government sentiments because those at the high end are withdrawing from the rest because they don't need to partake of the "commons." They are separating themselves more and more.

That is what he said.

You are looking at it through a lens of haves and have nots. He in fact says once people go private they are separating themselves in a bad way. In a non socialist society that is healthy but in his socialist world view it is bad. The people who choose to go private schooling do so because the public schooling is detrimental to their advancement but he portrays them as the evil that holds back the masses. Classical communism.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

You are looking at it through a lens of haves and have nots.

I am looking at it in the context of what he was talking about.

The people who choose to go private schooling do so because the public schooling is detrimental to their advancement but he portrays them as the evil that holds back the masses.

So you agree with what I said then, it is not private schools which instill anti-government sentiments. It is the inadequacies of public education and a general anti-government attitude which makes people send their kids to private schools. Glad we cleared that up.