Woman who failed physical exam to become firefighter

a reply to: imitator

I didn't mean for the numbers to be exact, but more of an example.

And no, at a certain height, they can't be wavered in.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

You mean like people that can't make the time.

Never before in my life have I ever heard from someone, that time can discriminate between anything.
You really have nothing else to fall back on do you.

And you really don't get it do you.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Time is not discriminatory.

It is when they keep changing it to exclude certain people.

Yes. They exclude the unqualified.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Time is not discriminatory.

It is when they keep changing it to exclude certain people.

Yes. They exclude the unqualified.

This woman qualified because in their opinion she completed the requirements.

As for timing:


http:

Nigro shot down a published report that claimed Wax failed to meet a benchmark on a fitness test required for graduation.

“It is not,” Nigro said, when asked if the fitness course in question was a timed event needed to pass academy training.

www.nydailynews.com...

The facts are the facts as per the firefighting officials and nobody here can really speak of her test results because nobody here can produce them for our inspection and discussion, but a candidate can also pass with a combined minimum 75% on all tests.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Time is not discriminatory.

It is when they keep changing it to exclude certain people.

Yes. They exclude the unqualified.

This woman qualified because in their opinion she completed the requirements.

So they bent to the PC crowd. That doesn't make her qualified. She'll either crash out because she isn't. Her fellow workers will be harsh towards her for the same reason. And/or she'll screw up and the following lawsuit(probably due to loss of life) will end this ridiculous experiment.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Time is not discriminatory.

It is when they keep changing it to exclude certain people.

Yes. They exclude the unqualified.

This woman qualified because in their opinion she completed the requirements.

So they bent to the PC crowd. That doesn't make her qualified. She'll either crash out because she isn't. Her fellow workers will be harsh towards her for the same reason. And/or she'll screw up and the following lawsuit(probably due to loss of life) will end this ridiculous experiment.

The problem does not lie with the new recruit, but with the testing.

nypo...

Acting on the recommendations of a consultant, PSI Services, the FDNY is reducing the number of exercises that simulate pulling down a ceiling. It is also having supervisors use videos to evaluate trainees not on the time it takes to perform tasks, but on “a minimally acceptable pace of performance.”

PSI also urged the department to reorder the tasks in its functional skills test to “reduce the cumulative fatigue that would occur for a recruit.”

nypost.com...

If this new recruit can't cut it, it will show during her probationary training/testing.

a reply to: InTheLight

I guess you missed the rest of my post. The existing firefighters will NOT accept this less than qualified recruit no matter what they say. It's essential that they trust each other. They won't trust her. Nothing they can do about that.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: InTheLight

I guess you missed the rest of my post. The existing firefighters will NOT accept this less than qualified recruit no matter what they say. It's essential that they trust each other. They won't trust her. Nothing they can do about that.

They really don't have a choice, so they will have to learn to suck it up and get over it. But, I am sure she will do just fine.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: InTheLight

I guess you missed the rest of my post. The existing firefighters will NOT accept this less than qualified recruit no matter what they say. It's essential that they trust each other. They won't trust her. Nothing they can do about that.

They really don't have a choice, so they will have to learn to suck it up and get over it. But, I am sure she will do just fine.

You really don't understand how people that work in dangerous occupations are. FF, cops, military, etc. Just because YOU want them to "suck it up" doesn't mean that they will. Just more wishful thinking.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: InTheLight

I guess you missed the rest of my post. The existing firefighters will NOT accept this less than qualified recruit no matter what they say. It's essential that they trust each other. They won't trust her. Nothing they can do about that.

They really don't have a choice, so they will have to learn to suck it up and get over it. But, I am sure she will do just fine.

You really don't understand how people that work in dangerous occupations are. FF, cops, military, etc. Just because YOU want them to "suck it up" doesn't mean that they will. Just more wishful thinking.

If they have any intelligence and honour, they won't make assumptions and wait to see how the person performs on the job.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: InTheLight

I guess you missed the rest of my post. The existing firefighters will NOT accept this less than qualified recruit no matter what they say. It's essential that they trust each other. They won't trust her. Nothing they can do about that.

They really don't have a choice, so they will have to learn to suck it up and get over it. But, I am sure she will do just fine.

You really don't understand how people that work in dangerous occupations are. FF, cops, military, etc. Just because YOU want them to "suck it up" doesn't mean that they will. Just more wishful thinking.

If they have any intelligence and honour, they won't make assumptions and wait to see how the person performs on the job.

Questioning these people's honour is beyond ridiculous. Shows the closed mindedness on this issue.

a reply to: InTheLight

Most likely she will get qualified firefighters fired due to the next lawsuit over hurt feelings of non-acceptance in the workplace.

I am curious what you mean by they keep changing times to disqualify people. Are different people given different times to qualify on the test, or is the standard simply being made higher to "weed out" less desirable candidates?

*note that I am not saying undesirable or bad candidates. Even in some occupations the standards are brutal so that only a select few remain. Those that do not make the cut are not looked down upon as they are still superior to 95% of their career field, they simply didn't make it "this time".

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: InTheLight

I guess you missed the rest of my post. The existing firefighters will NOT accept this less than qualified recruit no matter what they say. It's essential that they trust each other. They won't trust her. Nothing they can do about that.

They really don't have a choice, so they will have to learn to suck it up and get over it. But, I am sure she will do just fine.

You really don't understand how people that work in dangerous occupations are. FF, cops, military, etc. Just because YOU want them to "suck it up" doesn't mean that they will. Just more wishful thinking.

If they have any intelligence and honour, they won't make assumptions and wait to see how the person performs on the job.

Questioning these people's honour is beyond ridiculous. Shows the closed mindedness on this issue.

Just google sexual harassment of female fire fighters and get back to me.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: InTheLight

I guess you missed the rest of my post. The existing firefighters will NOT accept this less than qualified recruit no matter what they say. It's essential that they trust each other. They won't trust her. Nothing they can do about that.

They really don't have a choice, so they will have to learn to suck it up and get over it. But, I am sure she will do just fine.

You really don't understand how people that work in dangerous occupations are. FF, cops, military, etc. Just because YOU want them to "suck it up" doesn't mean that they will. Just more wishful thinking.

If they have any intelligence and honour, they won't make assumptions and wait to see how the person performs on the job.

Questioning these people's honour is beyond ridiculous. Shows the closed mindedness on this issue.

Just google sexual harassment of female fire fighters and get back to me.

That is a separate issue. Nice try. You DO know just saying something doesn't make it true, right?

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: InTheLight

I guess you missed the rest of my post. The existing firefighters will NOT accept this less than qualified recruit no matter what they say. It's essential that they trust each other. They won't trust her. Nothing they can do about that.

They really don't have a choice, so they will have to learn to suck it up and get over it. But, I am sure she will do just fine.

You really don't understand how people that work in dangerous occupations are. FF, cops, military, etc. Just because YOU want them to "suck it up" doesn't mean that they will. Just more wishful thinking.

If they have any intelligence and honour, they won't make assumptions and wait to see how the person performs on the job.

Questioning these people's honour is beyond ridiculous. Shows the closed mindedness on this issue.

Just google sexual harassment of female fire fighters and get back to me.

That is a separate issue. Nice try. You DO know just saying something doesn't make it true, right?

I know it, do you?

a reply to: 200Plus

I was referring to the history of the physical testing, times were changed I believe the timing was upped from the 1950's accepted times, as well as they added more testing as obstacles.

"New York City adopted the CPAT as its fire academy entrance exam in 2006, but then something strange happened: The city began requiring academy cadets to pass an additional timed obstacle course as a requirement for graduation. In addition, cadets are required to run 1.5 miles in twelve minutes, a requirement appearing nowhere in the CPAT. Neither of these requirements reflects the essential tasks of a New York City firefighter – as the law requires – and both are blocking women from joining the fire department. With these add-on requirements, the city is attempting an end run around the CPAT's fairer standards and the demands of antidiscrimination law."

www.aclu.org...

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: 200Plus

I was referring to the history of the physical testing, times were changed I believe the timing was upped from the 1950's accepted times, as well as they added more testing as obstacles.

"New York City adopted the CPAT as its fire academy entrance exam in 2006, but then something strange happened: The city began requiring academy cadets to pass an additional timed obstacle course as a requirement for graduation. In addition, cadets are required to run 1.5 miles in twelve minutes, a requirement appearing nowhere in the CPAT. Neither of these requirements reflects the essential tasks of a New York City firefighter – as the law requires – and both are blocking women from joining the fire department. With these add-on requirements, the city is attempting an end run around the CPAT's fairer standards and the demands of antidiscrimination law."

www.aclu.org...

What crap. So you're saying that NYC can't set their own standards? And if an individual, male or female, can't run 7 mph for 12 minutes you shouldn't be in any job requiring physical activity. Btw, that's less than twice walking speed.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: 200Plus

I was referring to the history of the physical testing, times were changed I believe the timing was upped from the 1950's accepted times, as well as they added more testing as obstacles.

"New York City adopted the CPAT as its fire academy entrance exam in 2006, but then something strange happened: The city began requiring academy cadets to pass an additional timed obstacle course as a requirement for graduation. In addition, cadets are required to run 1.5 miles in twelve minutes, a requirement appearing nowhere in the CPAT. Neither of these requirements reflects the essential tasks of a New York City firefighter – as the law requires – and both are blocking women from joining the fire department. With these add-on requirements, the city is attempting an end run around the CPAT's fairer standards and the demands of antidiscrimination law."

www.aclu.org...

What crap. So you're saying that NYC can't set their own standards? And if an individual, male or female, can't run 7 mph for 12 minutes you shouldn't be in any job requiring physical activity. Btw, that's less than twice walking speed.

They are setting new standards because they all agree they need to be changed to be equitable and fair, so, in answer to your question, yes, they can set their own standards after careful study and consideration; unlike in the past.

a reply to: InTheLight

But it doesn't block women from joining as there are women on the force. That's where my confusion comes in.

The NYFD has a higher standard than just a CPAT that essentially allows them to have the best of the best on their force (both male and female).

Why lower that to allow anyone to join that wants on the team?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: 200Plus

I was referring to the history of the physical testing, times were changed I believe the timing was upped from the 1950's accepted times, as well as they added more testing as obstacles.

"New York City adopted the CPAT as its fire academy entrance exam in 2006, but then something strange happened: The city began requiring academy cadets to pass an additional timed obstacle course as a requirement for graduation. In addition, cadets are required to run 1.5 miles in twelve minutes, a requirement appearing nowhere in the CPAT. Neither of these requirements reflects the essential tasks of a New York City firefighter – as the law requires – and both are blocking women from joining the fire department. With these add-on requirements, the city is attempting an end run around the CPAT's fairer standards and the demands of antidiscrimination law."

www.aclu.org...

What crap. So you're saying that NYC can't set their own standards? And if an individual, male or female, can't run 7 mph for 12 minutes you shouldn't be in any job requiring physical activity. Btw, that's less than twice walking speed.

They are setting new standards because they all agree they need to be changed to be equitable and fair, so, in answer to your question, yes, they can set their own standards after careful study and consideration; unlike in the past.

You mean pressured by a lobby. There's a BIG difference. So you're OK with new standards but the old ones were not to your liking because they discriminated against unqualified women candidates. I like mine better. "Unqualified." I'd say the same for a dude that can't do it but NOOOOOOO, it's about the women for you, isn't it? Even at the detriment to people, FF and public alike.