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Woman who failed physical exam to become firefighter

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posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: imitator

originally posted by: macman
But, all should feel better because there is diversity now.


Yes there should be diversity.... being most qualified shouldn't be based on how much weight you can pull around. I would suspect there are things that women can do that men cant physically do, for example crawling into small holes to rescue a child or something, or better instinct, they are far more flexible than most men and have amazing balance.... they definitely beat men in multitasking!


Uh huh. I want to have babies myself. I could get artificial insemination. Crazy? No, men can think that way:



That still doesn't negate what Reg says. "Where's the baby going to gestate"? That basically says that certain things are for certain people.




posted on May, 13 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: imitator

Women are probably better at interior design as well, but that has nothing to do with a firefighters exam.

It's a measurement of upper body strength, lower body strength, and cardio-respiratory strength and endurance.

Other females have passed the exam. This one didn't.

What if it was just a weak male that really, really wanted to be a fireman? Should we drop the standard for him?

Should we do away with the standard all together, is that the point of the argument here?

++I dreamed my entire life of being a soldier. I like to think I was a damn good one. I served 19 years in the Army. As a result of combat injuries I had to have multiple surgeries on both shoulders and my neck/back. I chewed threw the pain for four years and two deployments. It got to the point that I realized my injuries were putting the lives of my soldiers at risk and jeopardizing the missions. I requested and received a transfer to a WTU and was medically retired. It's more difficult than anyone can imagine letting go of the only life you've known, but it is harder still to know that your pride will get your brothers and sisters killed. This woman is more selfish than I can find the words for++



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: imitator

Women are probably better at interior design as well, but that has nothing to do with a firefighters exam.


I'd take that bet. I'm excellent at interior design. I have Degenerative Disk Disease too. That means my spine is breaking down. Can I get some "equality" here? No, I KNOW I can't do this job. Don't get bent about it.


Other females have passed the exam. This one didn't.


THIS is the real point. It's not about sex. It's about who can do the job.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 07:41 PM
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originally posted by: 200Plus

Other females have passed the exam. This one didn't.


Can you imagine what those females look like, the ones that passed the test?
They passed a physical test based primarily on strength!!! Yeah this probably would encourage females to take male hormones and other roids etc...

I would rather see these tests based on brain power and not brute strength... I'd bet chimpanzees could out do man in these tests... We don't need chimpanzees for firefighters!



What if it was just a weak male that really, really wanted to be a fireman? Should we drop the standard for him?

Should we do away with the standard all together, is that the point of the argument here?


Yes the standards need to be changed for both men and women.

I think that's great you served in the Army, but I don't think that makes this lady selfish, she wants to be a firefighter!!! She tried several times passing the test... she has heart of gold, that is someone you should want on your team!


edit on 13-5-2015 by imitator because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: imitator
No we would rather have someone who has a heart of gold AND can pass the minimum standards put before not just her, but every male and female candidate. You really are clueless. Their are some truly beautiful female fire fighters. These women don't take hand outs either. They trained to get where they are.

Also, since you obviously have no clue of how these tests are performed.....endurance plays a much larger role then strength.

edit on 13-5-2015 by LoverBoy because: clarification



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 09:04 PM
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originally posted by: LoverBoy
You really are clueless. Their are some truly beautiful female fire fighters. These women don't take hand outs either. They trained to get where they are.

Also, since you obviously have no clue of how these tests are performed.....endurance plays a much larger role then strength.


Yeah sure minimum standards for women, be built like a man//// uh-huh

Yep the World Strongest Man Competition is about endurance and strength too, do u see any women competing with them? Nope didn't think so......


Wow just beautiful... look at those squared jaws and bulging muscles.




posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:20 AM
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originally posted by: LoverBoy
a reply to: WarminIndy

Oh absolutely! Even on the ambulance, trying to work a code on an obese person in a mobile home is ridiculous. It is true also, people are getting bigger and bigger. We have alot of obese people, but have alot of hoarders also. The hoarder houses are nightmares. God I have some stories you'd enjoy about that one lol.


Bariatric dude....we aren't supposed to say obese anymore..... ;o)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:31 AM
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originally posted by: BobaFettish
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

FFS.. the girl is just a baby, she's got many, many years before she starts to slow down.

And all during that time between now and then, she'll probably get a whole lot fitter. Fitter than you, and most of the other chumps posting here...lol

And her times will get better too.

She'll will be making a real difference in this world during her time in the brigade ( unlike most people who post here
).

The knowledge and abilities she has (the ones that got her through were, had she not had these other skills she would not have), will have been utilized many times and saved many lives in the time it takes her to age and slow down.

Get over it.





Then she can take it again until she does pass, IMO. I happened to get hired on my first shot. But, I worked with hundreds of people who it took multiple tries to get hired. My own brother took three times....and the second he would have probably been hired...except he didn't listen to what I told him, and thought that because the guy closing the gate saw him walking toward it.....and apparently the guy was closing it very slowly...he was there "on time". But, he was not. He was a few seconds late. That cost him three years.

Edit: He was late to the agility test.
edit on 14-5-2015 by Enderdog because: left our info



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 07:51 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: imitator

Women are probably better at interior design as well, but that has nothing to do with a firefighters exam.


I'd take that bet. I'm excellent at interior design. I have Degenerative Disk Disease too. That means my spine is breaking down. Can I get some "equality" here? No, I KNOW I can't do this job. Don't get bent about it.


Other females have passed the exam. This one didn't.


THIS is the real point. It's not about sex. It's about who can do the job.


Exactly, and the people administering the test and running the show not only deemed her qualified, but 'kickass' qualified to do the job, and people who have the lifestyle of keeping up the physical training to continue to do the job for years to come. It's not all about physical strength, it's also about attitude, lifestyle and commitment, and her excellent scores on intelligence and critical thinking will come in handy in just how to fight fires to ensure the utmost safety to occupants and fellow firefighters.
edit on 14-5-2015 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)


The NYFD standards were changed over time to exclude women and men of minorities (shorter) as well as age discrimination was thrown in there too, so they need to create gender-neutral standards for equality and fairness, just as the U.S. military has and continued to do. You see, they recognize the unfairness and discriminatory standards and are working to make it an equal playing field.




But reaching that goal will not involve lowered standards. Mabus said he wants gender-neutral standards implemented. The ability to do the job, regardless of gender, remains paramount, he said.

"Our pass/fail system that only — and sometimes inaccurately — assesses one aspect of physical fitness is going to end," he said.


www.marinecorpstimes.com...

edit on 14-5-2015 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-5-2015 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-5-2015 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: InTheLight

Did you read the entire article about the integration of females into combat roles? It kind of argues against your point again.


In all cases, I personally believe we ought to have one standard for both sexes, a standard that matches the demands of the job, and if you pass, you pass," Mabus said.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 08:53 AM
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originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: InTheLight

Did you read the entire article about the integration of females into combat roles? It kind of argues against your point again.


In all cases, I personally believe we ought to have one standard for both sexes, a standard that matches the demands of the job, and if you pass, you pass," Mabus said.


That is just one opinion, the fact is that these changes to existing discriminatory standards will happen.





edit on 14-5-2015 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: InTheLight

I agree that the standards need to change but for different reasons.

As the standards are now, women have lower standards which give them an unfair advantage in promotions (in the military).

A gender neutral standard would erase that advantage instantly.

I only bring the military into this thread as you mentioned it as proof that others were changing standards and provided a link that said "if you pass you pass and if you fail you fail" (paraphrasing of course).



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 09:07 AM
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originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: InTheLight

I agree that the standards need to change but for different reasons.

As the standards are now, women have lower standards which give them an unfair advantage in promotions (in the military).

A gender neutral standard would erase that advantage instantly.

I only bring the military into this thread as you mentioned it as proof that others were changing standards and provided a link that said "if you pass you pass and if you fail you fail" (paraphrasing of course).


I agree, but they need to look more to job specific physical and intellectual requirements (specific to fire fighting tactics and requirements) because gear is getting lighter and the use of high tech equipment should also be considered, rather than just brute strength requirements.




The studies to develop and validate physical and mental standards will provide data for the Air Force's Women in Service Review implementation plan. Following the 2013 decision of then-Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey to rescind the 1994 Direct Ground Combat Definition and Assignment Rule, each service has been studying physical and mental requirements to ensure they are career-specific, operationally relevant and gender-neutral by September 2015.


www.jbsa.af.mil...

This is the first step (studies) to determine how existing standards need to be looked at differently.
edit on 14-5-2015 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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A minimum standard is a consensus by those that know the requirement of a given task.

I failed to see how lowering that standard is going to benefit anyone (other than those that cannot achieve the goal).

Ceilings will not lower themselves for shorter people, a 50lb hose reel is the same weight for you as it is for me, the rungs on a ladder are spaced the same regardless of race of gender of it's user.

Intellect is a gift for the planning phase of an operation. It is also a godsend for split second decisions in a breach (or fire), after fighting anything for 4-6 hours carrying 50-70 pounds of gear, intellect falls into second place to endurance and physical capacity.

Perhaps this woman would better serve the city in an Emergency Management role rather than as a Firefighter. Not everyone has the ability to be what they want to be in life. Allowing people to be what they want regardless of ability will endanger lives at some point.

I wonder who she will blame when that tragedy occurs?



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: 200Plus

You'll have to discuss those issues with the officials that deemed her qualified and considered her physical ability and completion of the existing physical testing acceptable, which obviously they considered the physical portion of the testing not the end and be all of the job requirements.

They need to look at the existing testing and determine whether or not it reflects the actual job requirements. (Interesting article)




"If you hold a legitimate test, you can say what the requirements are upfront and people can prepare for it," said Brenda Farlow, president of Fires Service Women of Illinois and a fire medic in Northlake, which uses the Candidate Physical Ability Test. "If not, it seems like you're trying to hire a certain type of person and you're building the requirements around that person."


articles.chicagotribune.com... exams/2
edit on 14-5-2015 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: imitator
Are those the requirements for a specific job.

For pilots of the F16, the height can't exceed a certain amount, 6'2" I believe. Now the 6'3" person may be the greatest pilot to ever live, but they don't meet the requirements.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight

Time is not discriminatory.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Time is not discriminatory.


It is when they keep changing it to exclude certain people.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: imitator
Are those the requirements for a specific job.

For pilots of the F16, the height can't exceed a certain amount, 6'2" I believe. Now the 6'3" person may be the greatest pilot to ever live, but they don't meet the requirements.



That is safety compatibility with the F-16, though I do believe I've meet a few f-16 pilots taller than 6'3"... I think they go more by sitting height more so.... also a tall pilot could be waived in.

However with firefighting there will be things that short people can do that tall people can't... so yeah diversity is best in that field of work.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight

You mean like people that can't make the time.

Never before in my life have I ever heard from someone, that time can discriminate between anything.
You really have nothing else to fall back on do you.



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