Fear of Outcomes: UFOlogy vs Astrobiology Distrust Explained

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

That was so awesome. Thanks for sharing.

I live for details in the stories like the Old Hag telling you to, "keep it down!".

The weird thing is that as much as like to write it off as SP, Its apparently "real" enough for me to think I am actually able to walk around in a dream body and wake my wife up? And then to actually follow up with questions the next day as if it could have possibly have worked?

I don't know what to say other than I laugh pretty hard at myself when faced with the same conundrum. It's the times for me where it happens, I wake myself up, and then rinse/repeat for several iterations that really get my mind spinning, especially when the same # keeps coming back for me in increasingly inventive ways.

Thanks so much Dude ( as in Steely and Major).

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Scdfa

But to answer your question, no, I've never experienced sleep paralysis. Have you experienced having an alien ship land in your backyard in the middle of the afternoon, and aliens come into your house and round up your entire family, then take you all away in their ship?

Absolutely. The gangly pale white-bluish ones. But it was about 11:30ish and I chased them off before they could abduct anyone.

My mom remembers and everything.

I had something that looked sort of like this standing at my bedroom door a week or so ago.

It was pretty vivid.

Personalities attract like minds?

Sounds like a good reason.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Thanks bro. I know I was a little hard on you but thanks for the kind thoughts.

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: draknoir2

Then meet a third sort - one who has had a "textbook" SP-like experience, recognizes it as such, and yet is unconvinced that is the only possible explanation.

Yeah I gotta admit that's pretty #in cool.

I would love to hear your thoughts on it, or if you could direct me to some post/s...

BTW: My thing is not so much the SP as much as what has come to be called the "narrative comprehension network", of which the temporal lobes are the centerpiece. I use SP in the same way that investigators might ask: "Where did the bad man touch you?"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: draknoir2
A close friend and myself have both experienced classic "alien abduction" type events - where we differ is in our interpretation of what happened to us. He is a UFO buff, and believes it was an actual close encounter. I am neutral on the subject of Alien Abduction and see what happened to me as a perfect fit for HSP. Here's a brief description of the occurrence:

I was asleep [face down] in the basement on a fold out bed... very quiet down there. Suddenly I awoke to an immense pressure forcing me down into the bed... I couldn't move, breathe, or cry out. I felt a presence in the room with me. There began an insect like buzzing which increased in volume until I could no longer think straight... then above the din I heard, clear as a bell , "You will not have this technology for another 2000 years". At that point it abruptly came to an end. I have no idea how long it lasted, but I'm guessing no more than 30 seconds.

The experience freaked me out, and for a long time I didn't know what to make of it. Then about five years later I read an article about Hallucinogenic Sleep Paralysis, and it all made sense to me.




Or maybe it was an Alien abduction. I should keep an open mind.


[edit on 26-8-2009 by draknoir2]

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I'm laughing with you mang.

That face though. it reminds me of that old twilight zone episode where the quarreling family must wear those macabre masks till after the old man dies or they don't get the inheritance. Then after he passes, they take off the masks and discover their faces are permanently representative of how they have always been. Yikes!

a reply to: draknoir2

Another intensely cool story. So what you are saying is that you and your friend have experienced the same thing, but at different times, your friend thinks aliens but you lean mostly towards HSP?

If your mind did not go directly to "alien abduction", then I imagine that you must be the sort of person that would wonder right away what would send that message in those words to your noggin'. I mean, I know, what do you do with that, right?

One thing that does stand out betwixt yours and ZetaRediculian's tale is the buzzing. I've experienced that as well, big time. The most intense was one time (in the not too distant past) when all the buzzing came in to my chest and it felt like I was levitating off the bed. It went on so long and kept coming back when it seemed to have gone that i got bored. That's happened a lot: totally freakish # is going on and I have to go to work in the morning.

It was like that for me as well: By the time I was able to formulate any good questions about what was happening to me, I was separated from any books or people that would have been able to help me understand for 4 years. Once I got access I was voracious.

Thanks a million for your story.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Scdfa

Sounds like a textbook case of sleep paralysis.

I have a feeling all your knowledge of Sleep Paralysis comes from Budd Hopkins. SP does exist outside of ufology as do other psychological phenomenon. Its really strange that nothing psychological occurs when UFOs appear.

Please stop talking to me. Or use vulgar language in all your posts so they remove those too. Thanks in advance.

Im confused. When did I use vulgar language or have my posts removed? And I have no problem with not talking to you since I'm not actually talking to you. Out of curiosity, do you hear a voice when you read my posts?

But honestly, don't you find it strange how psychology doesn't exist in ufology? Its like it doesn't exist and never has. People can leave their bodies and see all sorts of things and they even have a word called "hallucinations" to describe this phenomenon but when the thing they see is egg shaped, its called an alien space ship

pretty much every time. Weird huh? Any on topic comments?

Seriously? A senior counter intelligence friend of mine once laughed about using cases of paranormal activity, and sleep paralysis, hag attacks, you name it, and using those to pollute the waters of ET visitations whether they are true or not makes no difference. What matters is that they can just lump them all together and use it to debunk the entire idea of alien visitation. "It's all just a bunch of crazies" That will sure take the heat off of the military.

Think it worked? It's been working pretty good in a niche sort of way.

Are you really this far behind? Tell me isn't true.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Close, that was from a star trek episode. Its the first thing that came to me when I was trying to think of how to describe what I "saw". More human like though. I have had a lot of these episodes but have forgotten most of them. Like dreams. Writing them down and talking about them and remembering them right after gives them more life.

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: draknoir2

If your mind did not go directly to "alien abduction", then I imagine that you must be the sort of person that would wonder right away what would send that message in those words to your noggin'. I mean, I know, what do you do with that, right?

One thing that does stand out betwixt yours and ZetaRediculian's tale is the buzzing. I've experienced that as well, big time. The most intense was one time (in the not too distant past) when all the buzzing came in to my chest and it felt like I was levitating off the bed. It went on so long and kept coming back when it seemed to have gone that i got bored. That's happened a lot: totally freakish # is going on and I have to go to work in the morning.

Funny you should mention that. Just so happens what the voice said was the most embarrassing part of relaying the story to others. Hard to tell it with a straight face, but that was what was said nonetheless.

This only happened once, but I totally get the surreal feeling of carrying on as if nothing strange had happened the night before. Seems like something you shouldn't get over... but you do.

It's important not to forget, I believe.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Close, that was from a star trek episode.

Different makeup artist too.

Yeah, I spent five minutes checking while watching Through the Wormhole and drinking a Chelada

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Close, that was from a star trek episode. Its the first thing that came to me when I was trying to think of how to describe what I "saw". More human like though. I have had a lot of these episodes but have forgotten most of them. Like dreams. Writing them down and talking about them and remembering them right after gives them more life.

Assume that everything which is reported is very possible to being true. Like that sucker face from star trek you say you perceived? being near your room? Then think about how giant the universe is, and how you already know that good and evil exists.. We all know it because we can experience the results of good and evil in action and intent, at least from other people. But since there are reports of good critters and very nasty critters in the universe, and some might likely be physical, and some interdimensional or spiritual.

We already have reports of good aliens and nasty ones. And we have reports of good ghosts and very nasty ones.

So perhaps if what you saw by your room is really a real creature who's nature isn't completely known, but if it was lurking near your room at night, then it is reasonable by our standards to say it is a nasty one.

If it was me, I would ask myself what am I doing, or not doing, to attract that, or is it showing up just randomly and to my bad luck? hard to say,

I have seen things like demons myself before, thankfully not recently. So I know that things can get real messed up quick, and that they do in fact exist.

This is only my opinion but judging from the things that have happened to me, I now take the position that anything out there can exist, and it likely does exist. From the comical, to the absurd ideas of creatures, it is a big universe, and I don't discount anything from the realm of reality.

Even Story Musgrave says "everything probably exists" or something to that effect.

If I saw that sucker face I would be buying a few cases of salt and leave the salt outside and lock the doors.

But if you start leaving salt, it might make your place a permanent home, hmm, maybe not a good idea.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

What matters is that they can just lump them all together and use it to debunk the entire idea of alien visitation. "It's all just a bunch of crazies" That will sure take the heat off of the military.

Think it worked? It's been working pretty good in a niche sort of way.

I actually don't disagree. If you look at the actual literature, what is described is much more complex than just SP. What is described has more to do false memory. Typically there would be a SP episode, the experiencer not aware of SP becomes convinced that what he experienced was an abduction, gets their memory "recovered"...and so on. There does seem to be a subset of cases where that could work as an explanation. Then there is a whole other range of things that can happen while fully awake.
en.wikipedia.org...

It is now widely recognized that hallucinatory experiences are not merely the prerogative of those suffering from mental illness, or normal people in abnormal states, but that they occur spontaneously in a significant proportion of the normal population, when in good health and not undergoing particular stress or other abnormal circumstance.

So the thing I suggest is to understand what this means. People no longer have to be "crazy" or on drugs to hallucinate. That's done. So its getting more complicated as we learn more about how many different ways our brains can flip out.

Are you really this far behind? Tell me isn't true.

Im that far ahead. If you are not keeping up with brain science, then ufology has no chance of surviving.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

So perhaps if what you saw by your room is really a real creature who's nature isn't completely known, but if it was lurking near your room at night, then it is reasonable by our standards to say it is a nasty one.

Yes, I entertain these thoughts. I have had other episodes where I felt threatened by some demonic presence. but with this one I was more confused. Most of the time I am completely panicked and feel very disturbed when it happens. With this one, it was almost pleasurable. But yeah, I have been thinking more about "alternate realities".

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Scdfa

It's true, though.

Even the OP, JadeStar, has experienced SP. It's what links us altogether regardless of how we choose to tell ourselves the story of what we are seeing and experiencing.

I have met two sorts of people in this "business" that we all engage in here: the ones that "have" SP, in other words, they know what it is and realize they are part of that population, and those that say that they don't.

I have come to learn that the ETH believers that say that they do not experience SP can at times be impossible to deal with. Either because they have authentically never had the experience and desperately want that sort of thing, or they do have the classic SP experience and refuse to join the rest of us in figuring out what it is and they dig in their heels on some baroque belief or another about aliens.

That must be an increasingly small and lonely place to be in in 2015 when the future is looking so bright.

So sleep paralysis links us all together? What, like "The Force"?

Your writing style is a little convoluted and unclear. Are you actually suggesting that all alien abductees are really just experiencing sleep paralysis?

That would be absurd, of course. It's a theory that is easily refuted, however, and I did just that a few posts back.

I would ask you, though: What test, what study established this to be definitive proof that alien abductions claims are in fact simply sleep paralysis? What universities were involved, and how many alien abductees were studied? How long did the study go on?

While you're looking into that, and will never find it, I will point to what the real research, done at a real university found:

Dr. John Mack was a psychiatrist at Harvard Medical School, he studied hundreds of alien abductees for years. After a decade of study, here's his conclusion on claims of alien abduction:

"
"Yes, I take these peoples' stories seriously. Yes, I think that they are telling the truth. Now, does that mean that the whole thing is literally of our physical world and is going to conform to the requirements of proof of our classic western scientific methodology? Probably not. We need a more complicated ontology to grasp it...I'm opening up an area that has some power to teach us something, an area that seems to have some implications for all of us, even though I don't know what it's about and where it's going. It's a mystery, and I want to stress my agnosticism."

Dr.Mack theorized that these aliens may be coming from some other dimension of reality, possibly a parallel universe.

Well now. So much for your sleep paralysis theory.

Did you find the studies that prove your theory yet? No?

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Im confused. When did I use vulgar language or have my posts removed?

Yesterday. This thread. Page 8. Down 8 posts, just under Tea and Strumpets post and just above one of yours.
It says :

"(post by ZetaRediculian removed for a manners violation)"

That's when.

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Im confused. When did I use vulgar language or have my posts removed?

Yesterday. This thread. Page 8. Down 8 posts, just under Tea and Strumpets post and just above one of yours.
It says :

"(post by ZetaRediculian removed for a manners violation)"

That's when.

That's weird. Do you remember what the post said? I really wish I remembered it because it must have been a good one if you are still talking about it. I guess it served it purpose? I honestly have no clue.

a reply to: Scdfa

While you're looking into that, and will never find it, I will point to what the real research, done at a real university found:

Dr.Mack theorized that these aliens may be coming from some other dimension of reality, possibly a parallel universe.

So Mack is correct now when its convenient? but apparently he is wrong when its convenient too?

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Either way, Budd Hopkins was right and Mack was wrong.

In fact, Mack was still wrong until the time of his death, stuck in his psychiatrist dogma, by believing that abductions were a mental phenomenon and not a physical one.

but...but...the real research at a real university

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Trouble with nuance? Not surprised.

Yep, He was right that alien abductions are real, and he was wrong when he doubted they took on a physical nature.

Budd Hopkins understood the nature of alien abductions better than Mack did. But Mack got the most important facts right; alien abductees are telling the truth, and alien abductions are real, with profound implications for humanity.

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Trouble with nuance? Not surprised.

Yep, He was right that alien abductions are real, and he was wrong when he doubted they took on a physical nature.

Budd Hopkins understood the nature of alien abductions better than Mack did. But Mack got the most important facts right; alien abductees are telling the truth, and alien abductions are real, with profound implications for humanity.

but...but...the real research at a real university. Your writing style is a little convoluted and unclear

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Trouble with nuance? Not surprised.

Yep, He was right that alien abductions are real, and he was wrong when he doubted they took on a physical nature.

Budd Hopkins understood the nature of alien abductions better than Mack did. But Mack got the most important facts right; alien abductees are telling the truth, and alien abductions are real, with profound implications for humanity.

but...but...the real research at a real university. Your writing style is a little convoluted and unclear

The hell it is.

Troll along, you waste of space. The best you can do is to parrot my words.