Bali nine duo executed by firing squad

originally posted by: Logarock


I know of at least 10 folks that have died over the years from drug overdose. My daughter works in a care center for severely disabled. They have a few patients, permanently messed up from on drug or another. One in particular, a young woman, did heroin once and it destroyed her synapsis capability. She's permanently curled up in a ball, body stiff and cant speak. Another friend of my daughter is in rehab after stealing from all and sundry to support her heroin madness.

Anyway its not possible to separate anyone in the chain of events, that puts this stuff on the street, from the result.

So the people that claim this and think that the death penalty is deserved because of the destruction drugs cause (not necessarily you but it seems that is what some on here are saying) would support the death penalty for those in the greedy pharmaceutical industry that got many people hooked in the first place, right?

originally posted by: Kryties
If you have EVIDENCE to prove your points then SHOW IT

I did show it, but you ignored it.

I am not simply going to take your word for it

Funny that, yet you expect everyone else to take your word!

I have shown mine,

Wrong, you have posted your opinion, which is not really evidence.

a reply to: hellobruce

I asked you to post YOUR EVIDENCE, not continue the "Yes he did", "No he didn't" trolling.

Now SHOW YOUR EVIDENCE.

I'll bet my left testicle you can't.

You said the death penalty works to deters others - SHOW YOUR EVIDENCE.

You said that they were not fully rehabilitated - SHOW YOUR EVIDENCE.

It's not that hard to ask is it? You seem adamant you are right so I'll assume it shouldn't be too hard for you to do.

Kgo.....

originally posted by: Kryties
Now SHOW YOUR EVIDENCE.

I have shown it, but you ignore it.

You said the death penalty works to deters others -

I showed where it has deterred these 2 - but you ignore that!

You said that they were not fully rehabilitated

True, as if they were they would have given details of their contacts in Australia - but they refused to.

How about you showing some evidence for your opinions? You are unable to do that, so you are not interested in the facts, your only interest is your opinion is the only way everyone should think.

Indonesia can go **** itself, hypocritical s.o.b's.

Execution doesn't stop crime but life imprisonment is just not cost effective, the crimes that usually warrant life sentences ( murder, rape and other grisly stuff) should result in execution simply because murderers and rapists are no longer part of society and they're expensive to keep.

If governments opened they're eyes, legalised and regulated drugs, then this wouldn't be a problem.

Drugs are a health issue, NOT a criminal one, everybody on the planet has there form or release/escape and it is nobody's business but their own what that is, and if it effect them negatively so what?
Its their choice and we should be making it safer for them, not criminalising people.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Kryties
Now SHOW YOUR EVIDENCE.

I have shown it, but you ignore it.

No you haven't, but if you insist on saying you did then I would appreciate it if you would repost it.

I showed where it has deterred these 2 - but you ignore that!

You didn't provide evidence that the death penalty works to deter others - show me the evidence please. YOU made the claim, now back it up with EVIDENCE.

True, as if they were they would have given details of their contacts in Australia - but they refused to.

Again, I find myself asking for EVIDENCE. It should be a simple thing for you to find shouldn't it?

SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE. Why do I have to keep asking this?

Why all the arguing ? Justified or Unjustified , the law clearly states , drug smuggling will result in death penalty.

They got caught and got executed its as simple as that. Their law , either you agree or not does not matter. Regarding being rehabilitated , it can be also classified as survival instinct. Even if the president did believe they were rehabilitated he could still go and approve their execution and it would still within their law. Why keep beating around the bush ? Totally pointless, dead men don't speak.

originally posted by: Laxus
Why all the arguing ? Justified or Unjustified , the law clearly states , drug smuggling will result in death penalty.

So apparently you believe that unjust laws should not be protested?

They got caught and got executed its as simple as that. Their law , either you agree or not does not matter. Regarding being rehabilitated , it can be also classified as survival instinct.

They were rehabilitated without a shadow of a doubt - I will take the UN Secretary General's, the Governor of the Prisons they were in, and our Prime Ministers word on that - as well as the words of everyone who ever met them or studied their case.

Even if the president did believe they were rehabilitated he could still go and approve their execution and it would still within their law. Why keep beating around the bush ? Totally pointless, dead men don't speak.

Again, apparently you don't believe that unjust laws should be protested and/or changed.

a reply to: Kryties

You are a real piece of work.

Putting yourself on a pedestal like some type of social justice crusader who only has altruism in his heart while masking your (more likely) selfish motivations for making this thread.

But that's fine, you can continue to bask in emotion and ignorance if you like. Just don't cry and moan when people challenge your views using logic.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: Kryties

You are a real piece of work.

Putting yourself on a pedestal like some type of social justice crusader who only has altruism in his heart while masking your (more likely) selfish motivations for making this thread.

Sorry mate but it is YOU who are the "real piece of work" by making false claims and then continuing to try to derail and troll the thread with baseless and disproven nonsense.

I'd be interested to hear what these "selfish motivations" are for making this thread? Or is it that, having been shot down in your last attempt to say that the condemned and their families did not want their deaths used to try to stop the death penalty worldwide, that you are just throwing mud and hoping some of it sticks?

Yes, I think that is it exactly. FOR SHAME.

originally posted by: Kryties
Sorry mate but it is YOU who are the "real piece of work" by making false claims and then continuing to try to derail and troll the thread with baseless and disproven nonsense.

I'd be interested to hear what these "selfish motivations" are for making this thread? Or is it that, having been shot down in your last attempt to say that the condemned and their families did not want their deaths used to try to stop the death penalty worldwide, that you are just throwing mud and hoping some of it sticks?

You are the one claiming to speak on behalf of the families, not me!

I'd be extremely surprised if you have never heard the word "projection" before. Your responses in this thread are clear examples of that phenomenon.

But anyway, I have had enough of your antics and will bow out of this thread. (Grats, you got what you wanted.) But it is a hollow victory for you. You will not learn much by being surrounded by only those who agree with you.

/exit thread.

originally posted by: Kryties
Again, apparently you don't believe that unjust laws should be protested and/or changed.

I believe its none of my business to what other governments laws are , I also believe "don't do anything against those law to put you in trouble" , in a foreign country play by their rules or don't bother coming. I do not care even if their law said you are prohibited to sell water and will result to death penalty and you went and sold some and got executed. Does that make it right ? NO , but its their laws and I will not go selling water there. Simple as that.

Unjust laws in Indonesia is for Indonesia to decide not some external force.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

You are the one claiming to speak on behalf of the families, not me!

Seriously?

Apparently the evidence I posted of their final wishes means nothing to you? You would prefer to ignore that and continue the charade that I am somehow selfishly speaking out against the death penalty for my own benefit?

You really are a "piece of work".

I'd be extremely surprised if you have never heard the word "projection" before. Your responses in this thread are clear examples of that phenomenon.

Wow, talk about grasping at straws, lol.

But anyway, I have had enough of your antics and will bow out of this thread. (Grats, you got what you wanted.) But it is a hollow victory for you. You will not learn much by being surrounded by only those who agree with you.

/exit thread.

Ta ta. I proved my case and you made baseless accusations - now you're stuck for words so you fall back on the ol' whinge about leaving the thread. OK, fine.

I'll still stand up for what is right DESPITE the low tactics of some people to silence me.

a reply to: Laxus

No offense mate but the claim that "they did the crime so they should do the time" has been shot down multiple times in this thread. Please read the entire thread before commenting further.

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Laxus

No offense mate but the claim that "they did the crime so they should do the time" has been shot down multiple times in this thread. Please read the entire thread before commenting further.

Oh but i have read it from page 1 to now. Just because it has been shot down does not make it baseless, its just your opinion. It does not matter how many replies you make or how many threads you open on this topic. Indonesian laws are for Indonesia to change. As far as they care you and your opinions do not exist. I think that is the last of my reply here, topic is dead end.

originally posted by: Laxus

I think that is the last of my reply here, topic is dead end.

That is also YOUR opinion that the topic is dead

I shall continue, however, to stand up for what is right - using facts and evidence.

originally posted by: Kryties

For the thousandth time in this thread, NOBODY is suggesting they should have been freed, only spared from the barbarity of execution because of their extreme rehabilitation efforts.

To the rest of you still trolling for attention by repeating the same, tired and disproven lines over and over again - HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR THE FAMILIES. Surely you have enough humanity left in you to do at least that?

I never said anyone was suggesting they should have been freed. They rolled the dice in this game of life, and they were stupid enough to play the game in a country that gives the death penalty if you lose.

a reply to: symphonyofblase

I posted this before but it had become apparent that people don't read threads therefore forcing me to post it again:

From: www.smh.com.au...

Three excuses for the Bali nine death penalty - and why they're all sickeningly wrong

"I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but, you know, I can see why people think they deserve it." So goes the hypocritical sentiment echoing across Australia when conversation turns to Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

Somehow it has become fashionable to believe that these two young men, aged 31 and 33, deserve their fate, with a dubious poll even apparently showing the majority of people support their impending murder. All grist to the mill for pundits who have come out to call for their deaths.

When it happens, bullets will rip through their flesh, slashing their blood vessels and causing massive haemorrhages. If they are lucky, it will be quick, this process of bleeding to death.

But perhaps the bullets will miss their vital organs and it will be slow, and painful.

We kill animals this way, too, by letting them bleed out. But at least we give cows the reprieve of stunning them first.

Yet for Chan and Sukumaran, some are willing to throw all morality and good sense on the bonfire of tabloid bloodlust, and replace it with half-thought arguments and self-satisfied justifications.

They tend to go along three lines:

Indonesia has a "right" to enforce its own laws.

Well, yes, it does, but that doesn't mean we should support those laws.

If a law is unjust, why would we agree with its enforcement, particularly when it involves the death penalty?

When women are sentenced to be stoned to death overseas you don't hear people saying "well, she knew that was the law when she had sex, and that country has a right to enforce its laws".

No, we say it's an immoral act - and we applaud people who fight against it. We are shocked by how much the punishment exceeds the "crime", and we are sickened by the brutality of a state that thinks it has the right to take a life, to torture. The vast public outpouring for Australian journalist Peter Greste, convicted for the laughable crime of "spreading false news", shows just how willing we are to reject another country's unjust laws.

Secondly, they say "they were drug dealers, and drugs kill people, too".

Well, I didn't realise we were reverting back to the days of eye-for-an-eye punishments - a concept first introduced in Babylonian times - but if we have, let's not be inconsistent about it.

How about introducing the death penalty for drunk drivers, or tobacco industry executives?

After all, in the latter case we have numerous people who knew, for decades, their product was deadly for one in two of the people who use it (making it even more deadly than heroin).

Some companies profited for years while they hid evidence, lied to the public and influenced governments, and now are continuing their deadly behaviour in developing countries.

Of course, it would be barbaric to see the chief executives of these companies taken to an island off the coast somewhere and shot.

But for some reason we don't think the same thing about Chan and Sukumaran, who have been personally responsible for zero deaths.

Finally, the third argument goes, "Chan and Sukumaran knew what they were getting into, so why should we care about them?"

One former newspaper editor even argued it was wrong for people to be focusing on Chan and Sukumaran when there are so many innocents awaiting the death penalty everywhere. But it's not unusual for Australians - and our media - to care more about what's happening to other Australians abroad, no matter what the issue.

But drug importers are easy targets to criticise in columns. They don't seem like us, these young Australian men, and what they did seems unimaginably stupid. It's easy to make harsh judgements about a decision we would never have made ourselves - even easier to take the moral high ground from a drug-dealer. (All the while conveniently ignoring the fact that there were other people who knew what they were doing, too, namely the Australian Federal Police who let them go to their deaths.)

Perhaps all this is just a way of safely living out our most primitive revenge fantasies?

After all, this way we get to keep our moral high ground about capital punishment, insisting that we are still not in favour of it. But we can't help it if those brutal Indonesians like giving out cruel punishments, so out of "respect" to their culture we'll support them. Well, how about instead we respect them by treating them as our moral equals, who are just as capable of rejecting the death penalty as us?

We should never support the death penalty, which is not a deterrent and only serves to allow governments to enforce a most brutal, unjust, irrational "justice" - generally against those who have the least resources and ability to defend themselves.

When Chan and Sukumaran die I will feel for them. I will think of their grieving families, of their brutal, bloody deaths and just the sickening waste of it all. And I hope those Australians safely on their moral high-ground will pause for just a moment, and think about just what it is they have been advocating for.

a reply to: Kryties

Lol, are you really quoting mass media propaganda to try to bolster your case?
I don't care what the sydney morning herald has to say.
I don't care what tony "broken every election promise" abbott says about them.

Do you realise, that whilst you sit here and hysterically try to make the rest of us see what it is that only you can see, that Australia is also breaking international law? Our unlawful detainment and torture of asylum seekers in our concentration camps violates almost every single Article in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

There are much bigger issues in the world right now, and Australia is hypocritical for pointing the finger at Indonesia, when we break the same laws. Maybe if you would wake up to these things you wouldn't be sitting there pointing your finger also.