Let's Talk About Prostitution

originally posted by: netbound
I simply go wherever my penis leads me..

Me too. The journey ends with urinals and toilets though.

a reply to: netbound

I think there are reasons beyond religiousity why these things were banned. It's just been so long since we've had a society where they were allowed that most of us haven't lived with them.

And until we stop declaring war on poverty which also hasn't worked and has wasted just as much money.

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: berenike

Even now, whilst it's mostly illegal, people still deserve respect as human beings.

You can respect many things about a person, but it doesn't mean you have to respect everything about them. You could have a friend who has mental problems and likes to harm people and animals. You can understand the person has mental issues. You can have compassion for the person and feel bad, but you don't have to respect that they are harming living creatures.

This statement really surprises me coming from you. All of a sudden you are associating or comparing people who like sex with those who harm people and animals. How is a private act between two consenting adults harmful to...anything? It really seems like an excuse pulled out of a hat for your argument.

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: mOjOm

But there are single men out there too. Widowed men who don't want to marry again and don't want another Love but still need the occasional time with a woman for both physical and emotional reasons.

Never thought of that. But then again, there must be widowed women who feel the same. Why pay someone for it?

What is the difference between paying for sex and sex for free?
Answer: Paying for sex is cheaper.

I would really like to know what your advice would be for men who live in areas where there are far less women than men? Should the men who end up without a mate in your opinion choose to never experience intimacy when it is available to be purchased?

As a psychoanalyst and traumatologist (a specialist in the treatment of psychological trauma) I am convinced that prostitution wouldn't exist were it not for the sensitivities - and vulnerabilities - of the human nervous system to trauma.

I don't think I have ever met or known a prostitute who didn't have immense emotional-relational problems stemming from early life relational/physical abuse.

This being the case, while legalizing prostitution might liberate prostitutes from the further abuse of the pimp, the entire profession itself is thoroughly object-oriented, where the woman is bought for nothing more than her physical beauty (despite the other, tangential elements, the majority of johns have sex with prostitutes they find attractive) which only does more damage to her self concept.

Fact is, people want to be experienced as SUBJECTS - minds like other minds. To be treated, and looked upon, primarily from the vantage point of physical appearance, is not only harmful to watcher (the person who engages in this type of relating) but does violence to the object: to the person who is looked upon in this way, the begin to see and experience themselves primarily from the experience of being an object, and so treat others as objects as well.

I can tell you one thing. However popular Camille Paglia is with prostitutes, the majority of feminists - and thinking people in general - find her views anathema.

Psychoanalysis - and the structure of human cognition - of course, is a complicated subject to just 'delve into'. But suffice to say that prostitution is a harmful way of experiencing yourself. As when you experience yourself as an object - which is generally the point of prostitution - you are apt to experience others - use others - as objects as well.

It's an unhealthy and pathological social ill that probably wont be corrected until we understand the role trauma plays in the formation of a mind that considers prostitution a worthwhile vocation.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Why make the man pay for it?

To quote Charlie Sheen who likely doesn't have to pay for it.
" I don't pay to have sex with them, I pay them to leave after I'm done."

a reply to: yuppa

I don't think taxes has much to do with it. If they made it legal the prostitutes would be able work as a self contractor like any other job and hence get taxed.

I think it sex sells and is a form of control of the consumers.

a reply to: Astrocyte

You are very book smart.

a reply to: STTesc

So my question is, why is the act of consenting adults any of the Government's business?

As if that matters! If the chick is hot enough, I'm for sale.

a reply to: mOjOm

I done the bar scene. I wear glasses and walk weird due to my knees and back. I normally get laughed at.

Some pretty interesting replies..

Back in the 80s while flying for a few rich individuals there were times when there would be working girls in the back of the aircraft. Some of the really desirable ones were from Vegas and got somewhere between 1 and two thousand dollars a day (usually 1500 was the going rate if I remember correctly 3 day minimum).. There could be six guys in the back all banging and watching... getting their monies worth I suppose. When the girls needed a break they would usually come up front to look out upon the cloudscape and do idle chit chat with us pilots.. At the end of their little break they would usually just say, "you guys take care, I gotta go beck to work and off they would go". There were two who went on many trips with us and they all seemed to be just like a pretty girl next door who could bake an apple pie..

The rules for the many do not always apply to the few that is darn sure.. In every country there are those willing to trade time and favors for wealth.. regardless of the job description and certainly those willing to pay.

The elite (or big moneyed) have ways and means of doing whatever they want while acting pious before the crowd and press...

Selling kids into sex slavery or pimps beating girls for not being productive is the lowest form of abuse I can think of.. Why any girl would get hooked up with a pimp is understood in some areas (housing food shelter and protection inner city kinda stuff) but it is really a sick existence in my opinion and runaways are prime targets..

One thing about the legalization it should decrease rapes of the innocent and probably reduce crime to boot. Most guys just want to sleep afterwards !

If you can keep the men horny and direct their energies into productive things for a society like war or Jihad (sarcasm) by any means necessary then why change the set up ?

P.S. Jade Star I think I flagged every post of yours just for old time sake and because I agree with you on many levels.. In my present position and country I can walk out the door and get laid or have a close and continuous relationship before the day is over (with more than one girl if so desired for less than 30 bucks a throw at the walk away)..

I am married and really do like and respect my wife who goes well out of her way to insure my happiness. However, I do have several Expat friends who are married to good girls that seem to think that is not enough for their desires; same old same old gets old in their minds or so they say... So an occasional tryst seems to be in the cards a few time a month..

Most of the divorced girls I know got a divorce because the guy had a girl on the side he was doing or taking care of..

I honestly think sometimes they got divorced because the thought of, money going to someone else besides the wife and kids, was to much to bare/bear/take...?

Either way another busted family and kids without the support and love of a father (and usually the mom too for she works her butt off trying to provide for her kids)... Child support around here is not something that usually happens.. The guy knocks the girl up even if it is a wife and one day just walks out the door. Happened to my wife's mother and lucky for her the mom owned a family farm or no telling where she and her mom would have ended up ?

Anyone been to Amsterdam ? Legal, inspected, and taxed..

Even is the great pious Saudi Arabia once Prince Abdulla Armpit got on a Saudi G-2 special flight the flight attendant was usually blond (even if dyed; more money) and up for a few tricks.. Big bucks if she pleased or never flew a Saudi special flight again if she did not make the prince happy...Over there the Royals who liked boys always took a traveling companion with them . They would return with brown paper sacks with thousands of Riels .. I actually knew one of these guys... He was not gay and liked girls but was cursed with a pretty face and body that was very desirable to a particular Royal. They stone gays in Saudi Arabia don't they ?

I really do not mean to shock anyone but many have a very myopic view on most things..... it is all about how they were raised and what type of society and peers they grew up with.. Different places and societies seem to function just fine yet others would think the world is coming to an end if the same stuff were going on..

I just hate hypocrites who will cast the first stone at someone for something they do themselves as long as no one knows.

a reply to: Astrocyte

Well your area of expertise makes you biased to find something wrong with everyone you come across in your job though. Its not intentional on your part its ingrained into the education you received. How was your home life? Did your parents stay together? were they religious? Are you? See there are alot of factors to take into account. In ANY job.

a reply to: STTesc

Make all drugs and prostitution legal. You want to to do it? Fine. Your call. But lets tax the HELL out of it. Get rid of the criminal elements by it being legal, cut down the crime in it.

Im into neither, nor would I ever, but tax 'em all, and take the power away from the criminals and pimps and pushers.

I say if folks want to do either for themselves-fine. Go ahead. Whatever you want. But the taxes will cost them, and help all the rest of society in so many ways with so many different things.

a reply to: yuppa

Well your area of expertise makes you biased to find something wrong with everyone you come across in your job though.

I have read some asinine things in my days, but this takes the cake.

If someone comes to therapy, they come of their own volition. When they admit to a history of sexual abuse - relational abuse (emotional abuse) and physical abuse - it takes time, effort and tremendous empathy to be with a person when they expose themselves like this. In fact - it can be painful: could you tolerate wincing faces, flowing tears, and an anxious voice? Pay attention to it - attend to it and all that they feel? And respond not merely with a sense of what they're experiencing 'from the inside', but have some psychoanalytic understanding, a sense of what you need to do to bring them to the next step of the process?

I'm not the only person - in fact, MOST PEOPLE, not just psychologists, but sociologists, philosophers, pretty much most people who actually think with an open mind about the subject - understand the intrinsic relation between trauma and prostitution.

Turning oneself into a commodity is an act of desperation. Not anything a healthy mind would willingly decide upon.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Legalization is a way-station on the road to eliminating it as a 'thing to do'.

This is how confident I am in most peoples sense that they would be rather connected to as a subject than as a desired object.

Doing this, as you said, would give society the money for other activities (along with drugs, which I'm also for legalizing) but the paradox is this: with the tax money, we can improve our education systems and social-services such as helping single parents and children in abusive homes. In improving our education systems (and other social realms), we will slowly, but surely, create a more healthy population which UNDERSTANDS THE NECESSITY of empathy in human relations.

And this is what I mean by 'most people want to be connected to as a subject'. When people pay attention to one another's mental states, motivations, intentions, and feelings, we connect at a level 'deeper' than the purely physical.

When were seen this, we experience ourselves this way. Thus, if one experiences oneself as a 'subject' - because one is related to in such a way - who would want to subject themselves to object-status, that is, the profession of prostitution?

Although I am reminded of the Mary Magdalenes who have sex with the disabled and the mentally ill - and if one truly, and willingly, experiences prostitution from the perspective of a subjective providing sexual release to people 'undesired' by others - truly, you're a saint in my eyes. But I sincerely doubt that anyone would decide upon such a career when the whole world lies before you: the sciences, humanities, technology, etc.

Prostitution in such a world will likely 'exit' or become highly marginalized. Instead of being 'inevitable', it is merely the result of a particular social organization, what we can probably call 'patriarchal'.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Night Star

Some men like it because there is no BS or hassle when it comes to someone who will take money for their services. If you're a man looking for sex or even just intimacy or some kind it's not always easy to find. With a 'professional' everyone knows what's up and is up front about it.

Dating requires a lot of work and time and dedication and even then it doesn't always work out. Besides that, dating isn't the same for men as it is for women either. You can be a very normal average guy and find it very difficult to find a woman. In fact the more normal you are the harder it is to get women to pay attention to you sometimes.

Plus, sometimes you aren't looking for a relationship. You just want an encounter which is safe and you know what you're going to get out of it and there are no hangups and nobody gets hurt.

One of the few accurate descriptions of the situation in the whole thread.

Plenty of men who seek the comfort of professional women are able to "get laid" for "free" if they feel like going through the typical ritual. If the ritual works out, he might or might not end up with a decent sexual experience. Then the man has to be concerned with any "fall out" that results from the situation like accidental pregnancy, STD's, stage 5 clingers, etc. There's a good reason so many celebrities and other men with loads of money are often caught with prostitutes.

Most prostitutes get tested religiously for STD's and all but a very few low-rate girls always use condoms. They are also "pros" so their client is very likely to have a good time.

Most of the men who pay for sex aren't paying FOR SEX, they're paying to not have to deal with all the BS that usually comes along with sex.

a reply to: Answer

Does it all matter to you the type of history these girls have? In other words, do you care that the majority of these girls suffered sexual, emotional and physical abuse as children? And hence, are so willing to sell themselves as objects?

Of course, this element of the equation - the back history which frames the current mindset - is not an easy thing to reflect upon.

Only the most honest and courageous minds stand up to the ignorance that unfettered sexual desire feeds upon.

Most of the men who pay for sex aren't paying FOR SEX, they're paying to not have to deal with all the BS that usually comes along with sex.

Key word: men. There's a reason prostitution and pornography exist, and it's men. The problem, ultimately, both for the woman who experiences trauma and succumbs to the allure of making money, and the man who searches for woman to objectify as sex-toys, is the problem of the male psyche.

One can almost agree with the medical anthropologist Melvin Konner that, with minds like yours, it might well be a good idea - evolutionary speaking - to eliminate males from the evolutionary equation, since, as any biologically informed person would know, woman can procreate without men (via genetic manipulation of the egg), but men cannot - in fact, in all of nature, do not exist - without the influence of women.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: mOjOm

I done the bar scene. I wear glasses and walk weird due to my knees and back. I normally get laughed at.

Go to a reputable place and they treat you like a king. Be nice, spend money, be friendly, spend money, it's just business until it's personal and the personal is what you're paying for.

You can't legislate morality. It really is that simple.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
You can't legislate morality. It really is that simple.

Right you just drive it underground and let the true crime bosses run the show. Remember the little black book (or red) of all the customers the girl in D.C. had with the names of her customers using her thriving business...? Where did the book go ?

Yet they will bust a dude in many cities who is approached by a female cop for sexual favors for money.. Like I said before, there are rules for us pedestrians and rules for the rulers.. Some do not want to believe it but sorry that's just the way it is..

There really are much bigger problems in the world that actually affects all our lives than what two people do in the privacy of a hotel room, car, or their home.