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Teen suspect who died after Roswell police chase was heart recipient...makes me sick.

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posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?


Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.


No, I am saying you can't be sure either way.

Are you saying they didn't know he was black when they made the initial decision about putting him on the list?

Your last paragraph is daft! Of course there will be black recipients from the list. This doesn't mean that race did not figure in this particular decision.


Of course they knew he was black.....he was at the hospital for a while before he finally got on the list.

Daft? No daft would be someone saying that race was involved even when he shouldn't have qualified on paper without ever meeting him. He was already a career criminal at 15, but yeah...had to be race.


I won't say it again, but nowhere have I said it was race. I just don't see how we can be so certain it did not play a part.

What are the criteria for qualifying, are there specific guidelines available for us to look at?


No idea on criteria, though I would think it safe to assume if you have a criminal history and regularly skip school you have a much higher chance of not being accepted since you have a strict refining to follow post procedure....taking meds on time and being responsible and all....kind of hard to do when you're out tugging with guns and smoking weed all the time and posting it all up on social media for everyone to see....

But hey...maybe it's just me who think those are disqualifiers....


So you see what I am getting at surely? There are no specific criteria or at least we don't know what they are, so how the hell do we know that race was not a factor in this apparent judgement of character they have had to make?


Sorry...I am assuming everyone here is using logic and that race is not on their checklist of things to consider. There have been black heart transplant recipients, so race is not on the checklist.

And it was precisely that...a judgement of character. His sucked. They made the right decision and we're forced to change it.


Of course race is not on the checklist. You said on paper he would have been rejected (regardless of race) so I was hoping you could back that up with more than just your own opinion of what should disqualify someone. If you can't then your statement proves nothing.


? He WAS rejected on paper....hence why the family decided to pull the race card and force the hospital to allow him on the list.

Is there some reason you think he was a good candidate or have you found something that shows race was a deciding factor for the hospital the first time around? If not, then your argument doesn't add anything to the discussion....it is simply your opinion.

Everything I have said has numerous articles on it online. This was a national story.




posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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I'd like to add needs compassion for others to the list. There are those in this thread that I'm certain need a new heart. Their thoughts about others are heartless.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

WE could look at it like the decision was in Gods hands who received the heart, a chance for this kid to turn his life around, but who knows what truthfully was accomplished by his getting the heart, sometimes the consequences are know only to God, and may be revealed eventually.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

You have to take anti rejection medication every day for ever once you have a transplant.

Who are we to decide if he deserved it or not? If he's been to prison then he's already served his time to society.

His family was underhanded.... WTF?
Anyone with kids on this thread would try everything to save their child's life. Do you have children? If so would you not move heaven and hell to make them live?


edit on 1.4.2015 by flammadraco because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 04:59 PM
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originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Shamrock6

I agree but the kid was seventeen.

Let's use some empathy here and pretend that one of our children unbeknown to us, was truanting, getting mixed up with the wrong crowd. At 17 years old our child needs a heart transplant and then you're told by the doctors, your child is not receiving the transplant due to their indiscretions. How would any parent on this thread deal with that if it happened to them?


His parents knew...he was on house arrest from his last criminal activity when they went to get on the list....still had his ankle bracelet on and all.

He was 15 and had street tattoos all over his body. He skipped school all the time.

Let's not try to make it sound like he suddenly became a criminal and nobody knew. It was very well known.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: chiefsmom
If you believe in fate, karma, or even a predestine death, this story would sure fit the bill.

I just feel bad for the donors family. Such a great gift. Completely wasted.


if you believe in white supremacy, you're going to do anything to stay on top.





For Immediate Release: New Annual Report reveals that 313 Black People were killed in 2012, averaging one every 28 hours.

Every 28 hours in 2012 someone employed or protected by the US government killed a Black man, woman, or child! This startling fact is revealed in Operation Ghetto Storm: 2012 Annual Report on the Extrajudicial Killings of 313 Black People by Police, Security Guards, and Vigilantes.

“When we started this investigation in early 2012, we knew a serious human rights crisis was confronting the Black community”, says Kali Akuno, an organizer with the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement (MXGM). “However, we did not have a clear sense of its true depth until we compiled and examined the annual figures. We have uncovered outrageous rates of extrajudicial killings–rates, that when they are found in countries like Mexico or Brazil, are universally condemned.

mxgm.org...

anything.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Vasa Croe

You have to take anti virals every day for ever once you have a transplant.

Who are we to decide if he deserved it or not? If he's been to prison then he's already served his time to society.

His family was underhanded.... WTF?
Anyone with kids on this thread would try everything to save their child's life. Do you have children? If so would you not move heaven and hell to make them live?



I have three, none of them thugs so this situation doesn't really apply to me. They would have no problem getting on a list.

And yes...underhanded. Pulling the race card is called underhanded.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:03 PM
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I wonder which equally sick, deserving, law-abiding, person died because this kid got to skip ahead of them...



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: Vasa Croe

So your complaining that african americans use the race card, and your whole op is a race bait, pot meet kettle.


when people accuse others of pulling the race card,
it's shorthand for " i got caught being a unreconstructed bigot...
Defend, Deflect, Deny!
SPIN!!! SPIN!!! SPIN!!!"



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:12 PM
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originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: AdamuBureido

I completly agree with 90% of your points. Which shocked me considering our opposing views on everything else.



lol, what everything else? regarding agitprop and it's sources?
that's just 1 thing.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

I'm sorry but if you are a parent to three kids, then you would understand any other parent trying their best to save their kids life, no matter if the kid was an angel or the spawn of the devil.

I'm not disputing the fact that the guy was a thug, I'm not disputing that someone more deserving should have had the heart, but the guys criminal record should not affect the ability for medical assistance.

Again the argument that his doctors were correct when they first refused the transplants is invalid. He was responsible enough to take his meds everyday for the last two years. Yes he died committing a criminal act but not with complications to the heart transplant.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: Vasa Croe

So your complaining that african americans use the race card, and your whole op is a race bait, pot meet kettle.


when people accuse others of pulling the race card,
it's shorthand for " i got caught being a unreconstructed bigot...
Defend, Deflect, Deny!
SPIN!!! SPIN!!! SPIN!!!"



That, or somebody pulled the race card.

Seeing that an AA actress makes a public statement about her son being targeted for being black, then apologizing for the statement and thanking the officer who pulled her son over for how he treated her son after she saw the dashcam video and me saying she played the race card doesn't make me a bigot. It means she pulled the race card.

I'm not a bigot because I also recognize that her statement after the fact was sincere and legit. If I were a bigot, I would blissfully ignore the outcome and focus on the first statement.

But it's always easier to "win" an argument when you start screaming the other person is a racist, backwards, bigot, etc.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Vasa Croe

The topic of the post is false equivalence. At least that's how it starts. But the rust is right under the paint isn't it?

How WASP wannabe authoritarians detest the black man. A deep and abiding hate that is totally transparent. It just oozes from every pore. Never ceases to amaze me. There are always a chorus of supporters for this type of venom on ATS. And crying to mods when it's confronted. IMO, it's the most intellectually dishonest feature of ATS.

At the end of the day, all you've really got is your hate to cover the guilt. Hate has it's rewards I suppose. You've done your little part today to validate Jim Crow revival, genocide and crimes against humanity. You will be shocked when the illegitimate legal system you created and supported is used against you. Didn't see it coming because you thought you had a superior standing. LOL.

The American model of shamelessness defines this country and it will be ample justification for its destruction.




The actual problem is that black "culture" is destructive. It destroys the fabric of society and the young men and women who subscribe to the concept. Hip-hop rap crap glorifies thuggishness, is misogynistic, and is some of the most racially inflammatory garbage to ever spew from the mouths of no-talent "entertainers" who take the money from the poorest of society and live life publically large. People with talent, of all races, pretend that said "entertainers" also have talent and all of them hand each other awards of questionable merit. This validates the crappers in the eyes of the youth and the cycle repeats while people like Neil deGrasse Tyson are called "too white."
Black children who do well in school are also told that they are "too white" which means what? Too smart? Too energetic? Too honest? Too much work ethic? Too much desire to improve society? Too much desire to succeed?

The least common denominators of society are dictating behavior and are directly responsible for the failures of education and success in the black community.


thug culture is a creation of white recording studio execs
tons of threads here showing how the plan was to breed criminals to fill up the private prisons they were stockholders in.

just so you know...



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

Terrible tragedy. Terrible this kid got a second chance at life and took it for granted. The hospital was right. Had nothing to do with his skin color.

When people are the recipients of such a great gift, they are also the recipients of tons of anti-rejection meds, doctors appointments, testing and so on...He (more than likely) had a history of being non-complaint with his medical care and medications, missing appointments, etc.

Was it his fault? His mother and father's? Who knows...But I'm sure whom ever was #2 to receive that heart would've treated it much better than this thug did.

This has to be one of THE worst plays with the race card. Race had nothing to do with why he wouldn't be a good candidate for such a gift. His history of breaking the law, lack of compliance and lots of other reasons was why they didn't put him on the list.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?


Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.


No, I am saying you can't be sure either way.

Are you saying they didn't know he was black when they made the initial decision about putting him on the list?

Your last paragraph is daft! Of course there will be black recipients from the list. This doesn't mean that race did not figure in this particular decision.


Of course they knew he was black.....he was at the hospital for a while before he finally got on the list.

Daft? No daft would be someone saying that race was involved even when he shouldn't have qualified on paper without ever meeting him. He was already a career criminal at 15, but yeah...had to be race.


I won't say it again, but nowhere have I said it was race. I just don't see how we can be so certain it did not play a part.

What are the criteria for qualifying, are there specific guidelines available for us to look at?


No idea on criteria, though I would think it safe to assume if you have a criminal history and regularly skip school you have a much higher chance of not being accepted since you have a strict refining to follow post procedure....taking meds on time and being responsible and all....kind of hard to do when you're out tugging with guns and smoking weed all the time and posting it all up on social media for everyone to see....

But hey...maybe it's just me who think those are disqualifiers....


So you see what I am getting at surely? There are no specific criteria or at least we don't know what they are, so how the hell do we know that race was not a factor in this apparent judgement of character they have had to make?


Sorry...I am assuming everyone here is using logic and that race is not on their checklist of things to consider. There have been black heart transplant recipients, so race is not on the checklist.

And it was precisely that...a judgement of character. His sucked. They made the right decision and we're forced to change it.


Of course race is not on the checklist. You said on paper he would have been rejected (regardless of race) so I was hoping you could back that up with more than just your own opinion of what should disqualify someone. If you can't then your statement proves nothing.


? He WAS rejected on paper....hence why the family decided to pull the race card and force the hospital to allow him on the list.

Is there some reason you think he was a good candidate or have you found something that shows race was a deciding factor for the hospital the first time around? If not, then your argument doesn't add anything to the discussion....it is simply your opinion.

Everything I have said has numerous articles on it online. This was a national story.


Sorry, worded that wrong (it's getting late here!), yes he WAS rejected on paper but you have already agreed they knew his race at that point so you can't know whether it was a factor.

And it is your opinion that they played 'the race card' (race card meaning to falsely accuse someone of racism to gain an advantage). You state and maintain that they 'played the race card' like it is a fact so yes I think what I am saying is relevant to the thread.

Don't want to clog the thread any further with this line of thought as I feel I am just repeating myself now.

On another note, I don't think his character should have played any part in the decision anyway, it's not for Drs to decide who gets to live and who gets to die. I feel like I have been arguing the wrong point but once I start that's it!!



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:24 PM
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originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: Shamrock6

I just like calling out white folks when they have there pitty party, there no guilt here just reality, you can put your head in the sand all you want,***SNIP***

I get a good laugh when people are so outrage by these stories.

Dont let me stop you from having your happy dance


lol, you've supposedly lost your identity. funny that.
skin color has nothing to do with that.

then these people in another thread will spew more bigotry and hatred, accussing the targets of their hate as being
"primitives STUCK IN THE TRIBAL STAGE".
anybody whose identity is wrapped in their skin color or race is still in the primitive tribal stage



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: Vasa Croe

So your complaining that african americans use the race card, and your whole op is a race bait, pot meet kettle.


when people accuse others of pulling the race card,
it's shorthand for " i got caught being a unreconstructed bigot...
Defend, Deflect, Deny!
SPIN!!! SPIN!!! SPIN!!!"



I didn't accuse anyone. If you actually researched this thug, just type his name in google, the race card WAS pulled...back in 2013. It was pulled by his family in a very public way...all there and documented.

For you to call someone a bigot without having the slightest clue as to what you are talking about, makes you the definition of ignorant.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Vasa Croe

The topic of the post is false equivalence. At least that's how it starts. But the rust is right under the paint isn't it?

How WASP wannabe authoritarians detest the black man. A deep and abiding hate that is totally transparent. It just oozes from every pore. Never ceases to amaze me. There are always a chorus of supporters for this type of venom on ATS. And crying to mods when it's confronted. IMO, it's the most intellectually dishonest feature of ATS.

At the end of the day, all you've really got is your hate to cover the guilt. Hate has it's rewards I suppose. You've done your little part today to validate Jim Crow revival, genocide and crimes against humanity. You will be shocked when the illegitimate legal system you created and supported is used against you. Didn't see it coming because you thought you had a superior standing. LOL.

The American model of shamelessness defines this country and it will be ample justification for its destruction.




The actual problem is that black "culture" is destructive. It destroys the fabric of society and the young men and women who subscribe to the concept. Hip-hop rap crap glorifies thuggishness, is misogynistic, and is some of the most racially inflammatory garbage to ever spew from the mouths of no-talent "entertainers" who take the money from the poorest of society and live life publically large. People with talent, of all races, pretend that said "entertainers" also have talent and all of them hand each other awards of questionable merit. This validates the crappers in the eyes of the youth and the cycle repeats while people like Neil deGrasse Tyson are called "too white."
Black children who do well in school are also told that they are "too white" which means what? Too smart? Too energetic? Too honest? Too much work ethic? Too much desire to improve society? Too much desire to succeed?

The least common denominators of society are dictating behavior and are directly responsible for the failures of education and success in the black community.


thug culture is a creation of white recording studio execs
tons of threads here showing how the plan was to breed criminals to fill up the private prisons they were stockholders in.

just so you know...


Rap was around long before white studio execs got a hold of it. Are you saying prior to them it didn't promote thug life....again...ignorant.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Scouse100

How can you possibly know that his race did play a part?

Flip side of the question and such


I never said it did. Just seems to be a lot of certainty that the 'race card' has been played here where for me it is impossible to be sure.


It was played....why do you think the SCLC got involved? The parents of the thug played the race card, when the hospital had a very valid reason for denying his being added to the list. Apparently, even without the race card being played, the hospital was correct which is why the thug is now dead....


they should have been good, humble, little negroes and just accepted what was dished out to them
you deny race had any bearing and bring up his criminal record. how'd they get wind of that?
aren't a minors records private? so local police or others with access tipped them off.
sounds like the good ol' boys network has been working overtime...



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Scouse100

How can you possibly know that his race did play a part?

Flip side of the question and such


I never said it did. Just seems to be a lot of certainty that the 'race card' has been played here where for me it is impossible to be sure.


It was played....why do you think the SCLC got involved? The parents of the thug played the race card, when the hospital had a very valid reason for denying his being added to the list. Apparently, even without the race card being played, the hospital was correct which is why the thug is now dead....


they should have been good, humble, little negroes and just accepted what was dished out to them
you deny race had any bearing and bring up his criminal record. how'd they get wind of that?
aren't a minors records private? so local police or others with access tipped them off.
sounds like the good ol' boys network has been working overtime...


I will state again for the umpteenth time....HE HAD A COURT ORDERED ANKLE BRACELET ON WHEN HE WENT TO THE HOSPITAL. You don't get those for being a model citizen. Plenty of blacks have gotten transplants, so no, race had nothing to do with it.

Please research the story a bit before posting....ignorance is flowing at this point.




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