Teen suspect who died after Roswell police chase was heart recipient...makes me sick.

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?

Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.

No, I am saying you can't be sure either way.

Are you saying they didn't know he was black when they made the initial decision about putting him on the list?

Your last paragraph is daft! Of course there will be black recipients from the list. This doesn't mean that race did not figure in this particular decision.

Of course they knew he was black.....he was at the hospital for a while before he finally got on the list.

Daft? No daft would be someone saying that race was involved even when he shouldn't have qualified on paper without ever meeting him. He was already a career criminal at 15, but yeah...had to be race.

I won't say it again, but nowhere have I said it was race. I just don't see how we can be so certain it did not play a part.

What are the criteria for qualifying, are there specific guidelines available for us to look at?

No idea on criteria, though I would think it safe to assume if you have a criminal history and regularly skip school you have a much higher chance of not being accepted since you have a strict refining to follow post procedure....taking meds on time and being responsible and all....kind of hard to do when you're out tugging with guns and smoking weed all the time and posting it all up on social media for everyone to see....

But hey...maybe it's just me who think those are disqualifiers....

I honestly don't care about the heart. The transplant issue needs a thread all its own.
What caught my attention in THIS thread was the hatred being spewed.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?

Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.

No, I am saying you can't be sure either way.

Are you saying they didn't know he was black when they made the initial decision about putting him on the list?

Your last paragraph is daft! Of course there will be black recipients from the list. This doesn't mean that race did not figure in this particular decision.

Of course they knew he was black.....he was at the hospital for a while before he finally got on the list.

Daft? No daft would be someone saying that race was involved even when he shouldn't have qualified on paper without ever meeting him. He was already a career criminal at 15, but yeah...had to be race.

I won't say it again, but nowhere have I said it was race. I just don't see how we can be so certain it did not play a part.

What are the criteria for qualifying, are there specific guidelines available for us to look at?

No idea on criteria, though I would think it safe to assume if you have a criminal history and regularly skip school you have a much higher chance of not being accepted since you have a strict refining to follow post procedure....taking meds on time and being responsible and all....kind of hard to do when you're out tugging with guns and smoking weed all the time and posting it all up on social media for everyone to see....

But hey...maybe it's just me who think those are disqualifiers....

So you see what I am getting at surely? There are no specific criteria or at least we don't know what they are, so how the hell do we know that race was not a factor in this apparent judgement of character they have had to make?

a reply to: [post=19187759]Scouse100[/

size comes into play, the heart has to fit into the recipient, the recipient has to be really sick or sick enough to up at the top of the list..I found the following list umm.edu...

the following factors may exclude people from receiving a heart transplant:
Age of more than 65 years.

Severe irreversible pulmonary hypertension (high pressure in the lung arteries due to permanent changes in the lung blood vessels).

Irreversible kidney or liver dysfunction not explained by (caused by) underlying heart failure.

Symptomatic peripheral (legs), renal (kidney) or cerebrovascular (neck or brain) artery disease. These conditions may cause symptoms such as leg cramping with walking or at rest, foot ulcers; kidney failure or severe hypertension; or "transient ischemic attack" or stroke.

Severe chronic lung disease (Emphysema, asthma, chronic bronchitis).

Active systemic infection (Infection in the blood, lung, urine, or elsewhere, or open wound).

Insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus (IDDM) with evidence of damage to other organs, such as kidney, eye (retina), or nerves.

Cancer within the past 5 years. Exceptions may be made for some types of early skin cancer, or under other very unusual circumstances.

Other life-threatening diseases likely to severely limit length of life even if the transplant were successful, or to severely limit quality of life.

mental problems also come into play, the patient has be be able to take their meds etc etc.


Source: Eligibility Criteria - Maryland Heart Center | University of Maryland Medical Center umm.edu...
University of Maryland Medical Center
Follow us: @UMMC on Twitter | MedCenter on Facebook

a reply to: research100

I found this: www.surgeryencyclopedia.com...

When a donor heart becomes available, information about the donor heart is entered into the UNOS computer and compared to information from patients on the waiting list. The computer program produces a list of patients ranked according to blood type, size of the heart, and how urgently they need a heart. Because the heart must be transplanted as quickly as possible, a list of local patients is checked first for a good match. After that, a regional list and then a national list are checked. The patient's transplant team of heart and transplant specialists makes the final decision as to whether a donor heart is suitable for the patient.

Read more: www.surgeryencyclopedia.com...

I don't remember hearing anything about the OP when it first happened. However, I don't think the kid should have gotten the transplant. Nature should have taken it's course, instead his life was extend from months to years giving this street rat the opportunity to commit more crimes.

He was about "street life" in other words he was a thug. Where I live people like that are ignored and looked down upon. This thug should have been ignore as well, but no the race card was played and he got his transplant against better judgement. That heart could have went to someone else. Someone who would have gone on to not only take care of the organ but also stay out trouble with the law and be grateful for still being alive.

a reply to: research100

it is a shame this young man did not take this serious and change his life....the heart was wasted.

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?

Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.

No, I am saying you can't be sure either way.

Are you saying they didn't know he was black when they made the initial decision about putting him on the list?

Your last paragraph is daft! Of course there will be black recipients from the list. This doesn't mean that race did not figure in this particular decision.

Of course they knew he was black.....he was at the hospital for a while before he finally got on the list.

Daft? No daft would be someone saying that race was involved even when he shouldn't have qualified on paper without ever meeting him. He was already a career criminal at 15, but yeah...had to be race.

I won't say it again, but nowhere have I said it was race. I just don't see how we can be so certain it did not play a part.

What are the criteria for qualifying, are there specific guidelines available for us to look at?

No idea on criteria, though I would think it safe to assume if you have a criminal history and regularly skip school you have a much higher chance of not being accepted since you have a strict refining to follow post procedure....taking meds on time and being responsible and all....kind of hard to do when you're out tugging with guns and smoking weed all the time and posting it all up on social media for everyone to see....

But hey...maybe it's just me who think those are disqualifiers....

So you see what I am getting at surely? There are no specific criteria or at least we don't know what they are, so how the hell do we know that race was not a factor in this apparent judgement of character they have had to make?

Sorry...I am assuming everyone here is using logic and that race is not on their checklist of things to consider. There have been black heart transplant recipients, so race is not on the checklist.

And it was precisely that...a judgement of character. His sucked. They made the right decision and we're forced to change it.

originally posted by: real_oneIn my opinion your posts in this thread seem to be rejoicing another person's death

mine too.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
I honestly don't care about the heart. The transplant issue needs a thread all its own.
What caught my attention in THIS thread was the hatred being spewed.

Hate for a thug that didn't deserve a heart but got one because of a racial card being played underhanded and kept a deserving recipient from getting a heart....sure I can say I hate that.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: real_oneIn my opinion your posts in this thread seem to be rejoicing another person's death

mine too.

No rejoicing, just hoping a valuable lesson is learned. Though the lesson is likely lost on anyone who thinks he should have gotten a heart, especially those that pushed him through by using an underhanded tactic and bringing race into the argument.

Convicted criminals have been sentenced only to a specific punishment, i.e., incarceration, fines, or probation. However, the convicted criminal has not been sentenced by society to an additional punishment of an inability to receive consideration for medical services.

There are times when someone should be removed from the transplant list, for example an alcoholic should not be given a liver transplant if they are still drinking, or lungs to a smoker. But a heart to a thug? Bugger all to do with the doctors about this guys criminal record.

originally posted by: flammadraco
Convicted criminals have been sentenced only to a specific punishment, i.e., incarceration, fines, or probation. However, the convicted criminal has not been sentenced by society to an additional punishment of an inability to receive consideration for medical services.

There are times when someone should be removed from the transplant list, for example an alcoholic should not be given a liver transplant if they are still drinking, or lungs to a smoker. But a heart to a thug? Bugger all to do with the doctors about this guys criminal record.

Their reasons went well beyond just his criminal past. He skipped school on a regular basis, showing he was not reliable enough to take medication when he was supposed to. It also showed his family was not well enough equipped to handle him in general. He had a house arrest ankle bracelet on meaning he was recently arrested.

Docs that decide who gets a transplant have to take the responsibility of the patient into consideration because they want to make sure the heart goes to a deserving body that will appreciate it since they don't just come along every day.

His past was full of red flags that the docs accurately decided from that he was not a good candidate....as evidence mainly by how this story ended.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

He never died for not taking his meds. His heart had nothing to do with his death. If I'm correct, he had his heart for the last two years and thus must have been responsible enough to take his daily "anti rejection" medication?

Again his criminal record has nothing to do with the doctors. His death had nothing to do with his transplant!

IMO, this is like taking a healthy liver and transplanting it to a drunk, but not just a drunk, one who finds a dubious way to have his name bumbed up over other candidates ... like a clean twenty-something. He dies in a car wreck caused by drinking while driving inside of a few years and the twenty-something dies waiting for her transplant.

Now let's say he was a wealthy businessman and bribed his way up ...

How many people would be crying a different tune who are defending this kid?

And yet, we are talking about the same thing. One person using dubious means to game the system when they are themselves a poor candidate for an organ for reasons of lifestyle and thus depriving someone else of their shot to have another lease on life. And then they prove everyone right by promptly squandering the gift they were given.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Scouse100
How can you possibly know his race didn't come into the judgement? Are you saying this doesn't happen?

I don't see how the photos you have posted are relevent, either it is OK to form judgements based on stereotypes or it is not. Surely the point is that even if some people do turn out to fit a certain stereotype, we can't assume that they will?

Because without race being brought in, he was initially not put on the list. He had a history of interaction with the police and was, at the time of asking to be put on the list, wearing a police monitored ankle bracelet because of a crime. Hospitals take the list very seriously and like to make sure the person getting it will not waste it. The family was told this.....and they decided to pull the race card to force them to change their mind.

So, if you are claiming race was part of it, then I guess there should ONLY be white recipients of hearts from the list? I will do some digging to see if there are any figures on that, but am 99% sure there have been all races that received transplants.

No, I am saying you can't be sure either way.

Are you saying they didn't know he was black when they made the initial decision about putting him on the list?

Your last paragraph is daft! Of course there will be black recipients from the list. This doesn't mean that race did not figure in this particular decision.

Of course they knew he was black.....he was at the hospital for a while before he finally got on the list.

Daft? No daft would be someone saying that race was involved even when he shouldn't have qualified on paper without ever meeting him. He was already a career criminal at 15, but yeah...had to be race.

I won't say it again, but nowhere have I said it was race. I just don't see how we can be so certain it did not play a part.

What are the criteria for qualifying, are there specific guidelines available for us to look at?

No idea on criteria, though I would think it safe to assume if you have a criminal history and regularly skip school you have a much higher chance of not being accepted since you have a strict refining to follow post procedure....taking meds on time and being responsible and all....kind of hard to do when you're out tugging with guns and smoking weed all the time and posting it all up on social media for everyone to see....

But hey...maybe it's just me who think those are disqualifiers....

So you see what I am getting at surely? There are no specific criteria or at least we don't know what they are, so how the hell do we know that race was not a factor in this apparent judgement of character they have had to make?

Sorry...I am assuming everyone here is using logic and that race is not on their checklist of things to consider. There have been black heart transplant recipients, so race is not on the checklist.

And it was precisely that...a judgement of character. His sucked. They made the right decision and we're forced to change it.

Of course race is not on the checklist. You said on paper he would have been rejected (regardless of race) so I was hoping you could back that up with more than just your own opinion of what should disqualify someone. If you can't then your statement proves nothing.

a reply to: flammadraco

You're right: his heart had nothing to do with his death.

It was just the lifestyle he chose to live.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Vasa Croe

He never died for not taking his meds. His heart had nothing to do with his death. If I'm correct, he's had his heart for the last two years and thus must have bee responsible enough to take his daily "anti rejection" medication?

Again his criminal record has nothing to do with the doctors. His death had nothing to do with his transplant!

No idea what, if any, complications he's had in the last 2 years. Apparently he was able to take the medicine at the proper times since he didn't reject, that or he didn't need them at some point...no clue. Fact is, he kept right on drugging and thugging....at least up until a couple days ago. Plenty of evidence on that all over the place now.

Fact is, he didn't deserve the heart in the first place, his family was underhanded in getting it, and he proved he didn't care definitively.

Sure, even criminals deserve medical treatment, but certainly not more than a law abiding citizen if the decision has to be made between the two.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I agree but the kid was seventeen.

Let's use some empathy here and pretend that one of our children unbeknown to us, was truanting, getting mixed up with the wrong crowd. At 17 years old our child needs a heart transplant and then you're told by the doctors, your child is not receiving the transplant due to their indiscretions. How would any parent on this thread deal with that if it happened to them?

originally posted by: rippinitup

originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Vasa Croe

The topic of the post is false equivalence. At least that's how it starts. But the rust is right under the paint isn't it?

How WASP wannabe authoritarians detest the black man. A deep and abiding hate that is totally transparent. It just oozes from every pore. Never ceases to amaze me. There are always a chorus of supporters for this type of venom on ATS. And crying to mods when it's confronted. IMO, it's the most intellectually dishonest feature of ATS.

At the end of the day, all you've really got is your hate to cover the guilt. Hate has it's rewards I suppose. You've done your little part today to validate Jim Crow revival, genocide and crimes against humanity. You will be shocked when the illegitimate legal system you created and supported is used against you. Didn't see it coming because you thought you had a superior standing. LOL.

The American model of shamelessness defines this country and it will be ample justification for its destruction.

quoted for truth.

note how the cannibal comes to the fore here as well,
people thinking they have a RIGHT to OTHER PEOPLES ORGANS!

There is a list. This list sees no color, cannot think and is very long. Some folks are as we speak going on 3-5 years or more waiting for a transplant. My Grandmother waited for 3 years. She died waiting on a heart. To be forced to add this thug and then prioritize him so within a month he is getting surgery and a new heart is a serious injustice to the thousands waiting right now and the thousands who have and are dying as we speak.

keep drinking the koolaid, the rich and top politicians get fast-tracked i don't see anybody bitching about that.

or making snap judgements about a person, you know absolutley zero about the day to day events in this guys life post operation, like Eric Garner, he may not have been able to get a job, because of his rap sheet, and had no other option.
if the system is designed to screw you, you're going to tell the system to screw itself.

again, neither you, nor your grandmother has any right to anyone's organs
what the hell are you trying to claim here that your grandma got sidetracked due to liberal policies?
wrong your grandma got sidetracked in favor of someone YOUNGER, not DARKER

the list isn't sentient and makes NO DECISION in the matter.
the decision is made by the list's administrators, who have swon themselves to not be impartial and bigoted to boot .

if the list doesn't see color, then why was an attempt made to deny him the transplant?
one that required his parents to air the community dirty laundry in the media.
just like mike brown's parents did to prevent their son's murder from being swept under the rug.