Wicca. What are you thoughts? what is it and where did it come from? Do you agree?

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: iNobody

I actually think it's people like you that make this world such a bad place to live for so many.
The idea that anybody who doesnt share your religion is worshipping evil gods.
the idea that everybody else but you is wrong, that you are special and above everybody else.
It's bloody infuriating!
The bible is not the word of God it's blatently stories made up by men, then all those stories were put before another council of men who decided which ones fit the ideology they wanted to push. never mind all the mistranslations that have occurred over the years.
But still your little group are the ones who speak the truth? only because you are too ignorant to open your eyes.

Everyone has the right and freewill to believe as they do. And I deeply respect your right. And it is often, especially on this website that I come across people who call me many names and deride me.

I respect your right to do so. I still haven't figured out how that makes you better than me, which you are. I do not claim to be anyone.

But I look around at the world and the condition it is in, and I see what you people claim, and then what applying what the truth of God's word says and I see the difference. If your world was good, perhaps I would consider your insults and hatred, and those of others. But as long as your world is full of hatred, strife, misery, famine, and death, I will personally not accept your ways as better.

As I deeply and humbly respect your right to hatred and disbelief, you should also have the same respect for my freewill. I have found that people who dislike the truth to be very against freedom.

And I have learned this to be the truth. The more moral and God-abiding a society is, the freer it is. The less morale, and less godly a society the less freedom it has as a whole, until it sinks into tyranny.

In my opinion at least pagan beliefs such as wicca tend to respect women more.
If you look at the bible there are so many disgusting things said about womenIf a woman is raped but doesnt scream she should be killed alongide her rapist.
You can use a woman captured in battle but once your done with her you must let her go as she isnt a slave.
Look at Lot who offered up his virgin daughters to be gangraped, oh but he was such a good man!.
Never mind people like Abraham who raped his wifes servant so he could have a child then sent her and her son out to die when his wife finally did have a son.
It really annoys me that with so many issues with the Christian religion, that somebody can turn round and say another religion is based on demon worship!

a reply to: iNobody

You are the one spewing hatred, saying that those who dont follow your beliefs are worshipping devils.
It's all very passive aggressive but it's blatent to pretty much everybody else but yourself.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
In my opinion at least pagan beliefs such as wicca tend to respect women more.
If you look at the bible there are so many disgusting things said about womenIf a woman is raped but doesnt scream she should be killed alongide her rapist.
You can use a woman captured in battle but once your done with her you must let her go as she isnt a slave.
Look at Lot who offered up his virgin daughters to be gangraped, oh but he was such a good man!.
Never mind people like Abraham who raped his wifes servant so he could have a child then sent her and her son out to die when his wife finally did have a son.
It really annoys me that with so many issues with the Christian religion, that somebody can turn round and say another religion is based on demon worship!

Actually, while the Romans ruled the man had absolute say over his household, and had the right to kill his wife if he wanted.

You claim that the Bible shows a disgusting attitude toward women. Yet notice the attitude God had toward them:

(Ephesians 5:28, 29) . . .In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself, 29 for no man ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cherishes it, just as the Christ does the congregation,


You failed to mention that scripture because it belies your claims. In fact it liberated women.

Lot's daughters were not raped. It is very likely he knew that the angels were with him and God would allow no harm to come to them. He was likely trying to reason with the people of that disgusting city of Sodom showing them how rotten they were. When they could not reason the angels blinded the men, and God justifiably destroyed them. To this day where those cities existed is a barren wasteland.
Rather than God being disgusting, he took care of the disgusting people.

Abraham did not rape anyone. Nowhere is it stated that he took anyone by force. It was obviously a willing union or he never would have done it. God does not condone rape.

And a woman was protected by screaming out for protection. How many times does a woman lay down, willingly with a man, later only to claim she was raped? It happens more than you think. Instead of God being deranged in making a stipulation in the law that a woman had to resist a rapist, he was proving a way for the innocent man to clear himself. Which obviously you have a problem with.

And you forgot to add, that in the law, of the man laid down with the woman, and they were both virgins, then instead of the death penalty God allowed for them to be married.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: iNobody

You are the one spewing hatred, saying that those who dont follow your beliefs are worshipping devils.
It's all very passive aggressive but it's blatent to pretty much everybody else but yourself.

I hate no one.

As far as worshipping demons? This is what God's word of truth states:

(1 Corinthians 10:20, 21) . . .No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. 21 You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons.


That is not something I stated. It is something God's word, inspired by Jehovah states.

The whole world lies in the power of the wicked one, and Satan is misleading the entire inhabited earth.

Is it hatred to shine light on the darkness? No, for even God shows mercy to those who do not even know their right hand from their left:

(Jonah 4:10, 11) . . .“You felt sorry for the bottle-gourd plant, which you did not work for, nor did you make it grow; it grew in one night and perished in one night. 11 Should I not also feel sorry for Nin′e·veh the great city, in which there are more than 120,000 men who do not even know right from wrong, as well as their many animals?”


And even God says he takes no delight at all in anyone dying:

(Ezekiel 18:32) . . .“‘I do not take any pleasure in the death of anyone,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘So turn back and live.’”


Those are not the words of a God of hatred, but of love.

a reply to: nonspecific

I would recommend this book on the subject:

Triumph of The Moon

Short answer though, it's a modern creation using as much info as poss on ancient practice/belief, which isn't that much really. Claims to be older and have an unbroken line to the past as many religions do.

a reply to: iNobody

So much wiggling round the fact that the bible condones the rape of women. Oh isnt a woman lucky at least if she is raped, they force her rapist to marry her, oh so loving is the Christian belief.
So Abraham didnt rape his wifes servant, she agreed did she, that isnt even mentioned, it obviously wasnt an issue if she consented or not. Doesnt change the fact he sent her and his son out to die when he no longer needed them.
Lot offered his daughter up to be gangraped, the angels and God didnt save them, it was the crowd saying no that stopped it.
Even moses gets in on the act
And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Yes, you are wiggling around the facts. That is on you.

As for Moses? You think the people that Jehovah was putting to death didn't deserve to die?

Let me ask you this?

What do you think of ISIS, or ISIL? Do you believe they deserve to live? There are many people that think they deserve to die.

The people that God did away with in the land of Canaan were more depraved than ISIS is.

People like to call God a God of hatred for getting rid of incorrigibly wicked people so that their may be some stability in Satan's world. But you will see what happens. He has a point, he has a limit. If he destroyed the society back then because they broke his threshold for badness, and we are seeing badness today that people are asking for death for an entire nation of people. Imagine how bad it will get until Jehovah finally rids the earth of wickedness in our day.

It is not God's ways who are adjusted wrong. It is yours.

(Ezekiel 18:25) . . .‘But you will say: “The way of Jehovah is unjust.” Please listen, O house of Israel! Is it my way that is unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

(Proverbs 19:3) It is a man’s own foolishness that distorts his way, And his heart becomes enraged against Jehovah.
(Ezekiel 33:17) “But your people have said, ‘The way of Jehovah is unjust,’ when it is actually their way that is unjust.

originally posted by: roth1

You are correct that all forms of divination and magic are condemned by God.

a reply to: iNobody That is so stupid of a comment. Jesus supposedly did magic, Moses ect.. What a moron. Just pushing your own beliefs while putting down others beliefs. Religious people age good at that. Guilty too. I put down believers lies while professing non-belief.

Why so hateful? INobody had not said one hateful remark to you or anyone else within this thread however you are not only a hateful person but also very rude and you owe him an apology. I thought ATS was for debate not for spreading hate as you do. Since when does he no longer have an opinion? Is it wrong for someone to speak up in what they believe in?

WHAT? Since he does not believe in what you believe .......now he is to be treated with hate and silly remarks? That goes for everyone else....... (Wilson) your silly remarks with hateful punch lines only show how childish you are.

Your cheap attacks on him and I only show how immature you are and clearly you are not ready for ATS debates.

Grow up.

a reply to: nonspecific

Practitioners are peaceful. They don't like the spotlight. You won't see them on T.V. selling their wares or their religion. They can't be bought. You won't find them in the typical modern trappings the way you find other religions and their practitioners.

They're real.

You might even know someone who is a Wiccan. You know them, but not that part of them.

They're nature based and everything they do and believe stems directly from what is natural. Nothing wrong with that at all in my book.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: iNobody

You are the one spewing hatred, saying that those who dont follow your beliefs are worshipping devils.
It's all very passive aggressive but it's blatent to pretty much everybody else but yourself.

No he is not. He has not said one hateful remark. Simply because you take it personally does not mean it was hateful. What it does mean is ..... by your remarks, you are acting like a spoiled little child and you don't get your way. Since someone else has a different opinion than yours, you decide to attack that person. That is what children do in grade school. Are you in grade school?

It's all very passive aggressive but it's blatent to pretty much everybody else but yourself.

Really? Again you are wrong. I too agree with him and so do many others here at ATS so stop singling him out as a lone wolf because he is not.

Most of us just ignore your hateful remarks and the hateful remarks of others but sometimes I feel we should remind you and others that ATS is about debate and not arguing and pointing fingers at one another like children.

a reply to: iNobody

But not all the people were bad though were they? only the men women and boy children, but if God wants to keep the virgin girls for people to rape, thats OK is it?
The fact is I dont believe the stories in the Bible, i dont believe in a God that would act that way, like some evil despot slaughtering children merrily.
Who would want to believe in a God like that.
I would rather belive in tolerance and acceptance and a society based on equality and love, not killing anybody that doesnt agree, and stoning people for being raped.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

You are judging something you know nothing about. You weren't there. And Jehovah has obviously set his standard and shown it over and over. So it is very easy to see who is judging blindly with no understanding, and who is righteous in the matter.

And I deeply respect your rights to not believe God's word. I have never stated I don't respect anyone's beliefs or freewill. I am no one to impose on you any belief, and vise-versa.

I know this to be true. Because God can very easily force everyone to do what is right. If he is not willing, but he is patient, and respects your freewill, then I can only do the same.

Just know this. That how you use that freewill while alive has consequences.

a reply to: iNobody

The point is, i dont believe what is written in the Bible is God's word. I think it may have been based on a real spiritual interaction at one point, but it's then filtered through the eyes of the men who existed 2000 years ago. Their values no longer resonate in the world we live in today. you cant live your life by the ideas of some guy 2000 years ago, whos views of other religions races and sexes were skewed in a way we would consider "evil" today.

Wicca. What are you thoughts?

"Harm none" - I'd say that's a massive step forward compared to a lot of Abrahamic religion followers. I don't go along with what they worship or the rituals, but that 'harm none' part is something the rest of us could take a lesson from.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

Wicca. What are you thoughts?

"Harm none" - I'd say that's a massive step forward compared to a lot of Abrahamic religion followers. I don't go along with what they worship or the rituals, but that 'harm none' part is something the rest of us could take a lesson from.

AMEN

Hi all, thank you for great replays. Does anyone has any links or additional info about this. I always try to explore new religions or paths one can take for deeper understanding of reality and I have never crossed paths with this one yet.

I get from replays that it is very old religion (maybe one of the oldest?), with respect for nature and all beings. That is beautiful and I am very interested in philosophy, mythology, maybe some named high historic priest or follower of this religion or some old famous text,scripts? What is their end game; self-realization,nirvana? How do they explain life, death, spirit, etc...

Of Course I heard about the term Wicca before in various movies and tv series. But that was mostly just rubbish...

Any keyword connected to Wicca which i can google is welcome, thank you in advance! Maybe it was already mentioned before and I overlooked it in which case I am sorry to bother you again

To answer OP. I don't know much about them and I would, before I briefly read this thread toss Wiccans with witches in the same boat. Which is not much as I know nothing about either one.

a reply to: UniFinity

I get from replays that it is very old religion (maybe one of the oldest?)

there was a bit of a fad during the first half of the twentieth century for inventing new religions and pretending they were very old

it's actually very recent - the word wicca was first used by gerald gardner around 1946 - here's a link with more info:

link

Just to address the OP I'll throw in my two cents.

In the late nineties I became a Wiccan after dating a wonderful magical woman. (Alison X RIP) I became involved in the Wiccan/Pagan community and was a card carrying member of the Pagan Federation.

Modern Wicca stems from two traditions that originated in England circa the 1950s. Thus arose two main traditions, Alexandrian and Gardnerian (named from their male founders) Both these traditions codified ancient nature worship and animist pagan beliefs and organised a ritualistic calendar so to speak based on the changing seasons and agricultural events (Springtime, midsummer, harvest etc.)

Wicca as we now have it is an attempt to streamline the thousands of pagan viewpoints regarding nature and most importantly to re-integrate mankind into nature and celebrating humanities vital role as being both above and beyond the natural world. It recognises our privileged place in the natural world and emphasizes our resonsibility to the same.
This is done through ritual and understanding of the connectedness of all things.

Now these are very simple concepts and easy to live by and one can live a solitary life and live very happily within this mindframe.
However.....

As with all religions once Humans get involved they tend to over complicate things and create roles for themselves within these structures.
Once I recognised that these people were just there for the influence they could have and to feed their egos I became disillusioned with the organised framework and the egotistical power hungry alphas who usurped the positions of influence.
Wicca often attracts young ladies who are seeking a spiritual path outside of the male dominated srictures of organised religion. So I became disgusted by how many came to Wicca and found exactly that. And I encountered several snake oil salesmen eager to take these young girls under their 'wing'.

NOTE: This was not all Wiccans, but enough bad apples spoiled the barrel for me!

I am very lucky I live in a very ancient area steeped in legend and full of ancient tombs and artworks from our pagan past and it is easy to remain grounded and keep alive the spiritual nature awareness that still dwells here.

I digress, but suffice to say that once humans get involved it always gets warped. I likened it at the time to Bhuddism which I studied briefly (Wicca actually encourages exploration of all spiritual paths) and I saw how it grew in complexity and assumed pointless trappings and I believed it was a 'Jobs for the boys' phenomena.

Look how Bhuddism evolved, from a simple man with few possessions sitting under a tree to having to recite a hundred thousand sutras, in a complex temple surrounded by bells, bowls, prayer wheels, crazy hats and gold statues.
Or leap from Jesus Christ, a simple man devoid of wealth to a slick televangelist asking for a private jet.
It may be ok for many but its not my chalice of wine.
There are many many genuine loving and wonderful people involved in Wicca, but I have found that people I once considered seekers of truth were actually seekers of power.

I'm more of a sit naked under a tree and connect with the heart of the cosmos in silence type of guy!

Anyway what I'm trying to say is that Wicca is the framework around which many thousands of world beliefs and concept are gathered and rituals are created to partake in these beliefs.

It really is a beautiful and pure thing with positivity and love at its heart, that emphasizes that we are part of the Earth and not masters of it, and that loving our natural world is loving ourselves, but once humans get involved in numbers it develops human type flaws. As my username says ......Humans Eh!

Blessed Be!

originally posted by: iNobody


I hate no one.

As far as worshipping demons? This is what God's word of truth states:

(1 Corinthians 10:20, 21) . . .No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. 21 You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons.

Corinthians is an epistolic letter written by Paul to the church at Corinth in Greece. I find it interesting that of all the various bibles in use today, you are quoting from "Young's Literal Translation" and it is the only one that uses the first line 'No, but I sat that what the nations sacrifice' whereas nearly every other version translates it as Gentiles not Nations and the rest use Gentiles. Additionally, this mid 19th century version has over 30,000 textual variants from the original Greek as Erasmus, who this version is more or less plagiarized from, decided to "polish up" the Latin as he felt that when Paul addressed the Romans, he should be addressing them with better Latin as though he were a native speaker.
As for this being God's word... no, it's Pauls words in response to unrest in the Church of Corinth.

An even God says he takes no delight at all in anyone dying:

(Ezekiel 18:32) . . .“‘I do not take any pleasure in the death of anyone,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘So turn back and live.’”


Those are not the words of a God of hatred, but of love.

No. You don't need to take pleasure in something for it to be an evil and maniacal act. The alleged world wide flood event which was supposed to have killed off everyone but Noah, his sons and their wives is in no way at all an act of love. It's the act of a petty and childish deity demonstrating his raw power to prove a point