Adolf Hitler's Views on Religion and Evolution

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ah, cool np. Thanks for clearing it up.

Ok but what he then did is hypocrisy anyone can say their Christian and not follow it's defined beliefs that's more of a fallacy!!! reply to: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: ATF1886
Ok but what he then did is hypocrisy anyone can say their Christian and not follow it's defined beliefs that's more of a fallacy!!! reply to: Krazysh0t

I've never met a Christian who didn't interpret those "defined beliefs" to serve their own agenda.

I agree there are alot of deluded people out there...a reply to: Tangerine

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: ATF1886
Ok but what he then did is hypocrisy anyone can say their Christian and not follow it's defined beliefs that's more of a fallacy!!! reply to: Krazysh0t

I've never met a Christian who didn't interpret those "defined beliefs" to serve their own agenda.

And what would this agenda you seem to know so well explain this to me so I can see the angle your coming from?

a reply to: ATF1886

Here's a post about to backfire.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I agree Hitler had a more skewed interpretation of what it meant to be a Christian. I would also agree many of his interpretations are not Biblical. It's obvious the guy was messed up in the head! I am not trying to turn this into a "true Christian" or not debate. I am merely making the point that the man himself identified as a Christian and felt moved by God himself to do the things he did. Now I make no excuses, or support his actions. And again, I agree with you that the holocaust went directly against things like "love thy neighbor". However..

(Keep in mind I am an atheist)

Who is anyone to say God did not speak to him?

How do you judge that? If it falls in line with scripture?

What about the stark contrast between the Old Testament and the New? The behavior and teachings of Christ are nothing like the rules and commandments of Yahweh. So is Jesus not really the son of God?

Or consider that in the past, God has commanded the genocide of those that did not seek him, or who had turned against him. Is it such a stretch to imagine he might not do the same again? How do we know God didn't really tell George Bush to go into Iraq? God works in mysterious ways, does he not?

Just some food for thought, imo.

Thanks for your input.

Who is anyone to say God did not speak to him?

I spoke with a theologist once who said during his conversations with other students at his University, they considered the possibility that Hitler had been used as an instrument by God to facilitate having his will done, which was for the Jews to return to Israel.

(On a side note, they also considered the same for Judas. That Jesus' earthly destiny was to be crucified, and it was important that he be properly identified at the appropriate time. Thusly, Judas was prompted by God to deliver the kiss of betrayal when needed.)

Thought these were interesting ideas. Didn't mean to get off topic.

liw

originally posted by: ATF1886

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: ATF1886
Ok but what he then did is hypocrisy anyone can say their Christian and not follow it's defined beliefs that's more of a fallacy!!! reply to: Krazysh0t

I've never met a Christian who didn't interpret those "defined beliefs" to serve their own agenda.

And what would this agenda you seem to know so well explain this to me so I can see the angle your coming from?

The agenda is to establish themselves as righteous and justify condemning everyone who doesn't agree with their particular beliefs, whatever they may be or do that which they think they should. I've talked with enough fundamentalists to have concluded that, for them, the attraction of Christianity is justification for condemning other people.

Closed for staff review.

Reopened.....please be mindful o the following when you post:

We don't like Hitler at ATS, not even a little bit....

This thread has be re-opened!

Allow me to use this post to make one thing very clear!

In absolutely no way is it my intention to paint Adolf Hitler, or any of the 3rd Reich's actions in a positive light. There are NO excuses to be made for such evil men. This thread has nothing to do with praise or admiration for them. Nor is it the intention to paint history in a different light.

The sole purpose of this thread is to lay to rest certain claims.

1. Hitler was an atheist motivated by Godlessness.

2. Hitler was a Darwinist motivated by the biological theory of evolution.

I believe I have made a good case in my OP. Of course there is room for discussion. Please keep it on topic! Thank you.

In regards to comments such as, "He wasn't a true Christian".

I am not trying to turn this into a "true Christian" or not debate.

I am merely making the point that the man himself identified as a Christian and felt moved by God himself to do the things he did. I would also argue, who is anyone to say whether or not God really spoke to him? Consider that in the past, God has commanded the genocide of those that did not seek him, or who had turned against him. Why should we imagine he might not do the same again? God works in mysterious ways, does he not? Again, I am not defending Hitler's actions (or God's for that matter). Just making the point that if the Christian God truly exists, only he would know if Hitler was a true Christian.

Thank you mods, for reviewing and re-opening the thread!

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Thank you, too - for making the thread!

It's becoming increasingly clear that anyone who uses 'religion' to back up their actions is amiss.

I'm glad you made this thread, and doubly glad the staff reopened it.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
This thread has be re-opened!

Allow me to use this post to make one thing very clear!

In absolutely no way is it my intention to paint Adolf Hitler, or any of the 3rd Reich's actions in a positive light. There are NO excuses to be made for such evil men. This thread has nothing to do with praise or admiration for them. Nor is it the intention to paint history in a different light.

The sole purpose of this thread is to lay to rest certain claims.

1. Hitler was an atheist motivated by Godlessness.

2. Hitler was a Darwinist motivated by the biological theory of evolution.

I believe I have made a good case in my OP. Of course there is room for discussion. Please keep it on topic! Thank you.

In regards to comments such as, "He wasn't a true Christian".

I am not trying to turn this into a "true Christian" or not debate.

I am merely making the point that the man himself identified as a Christian and felt moved by God himself to do the things he did. I would also argue, who is anyone to say whether or not God really spoke to him? Consider that in the past, God has commanded the genocide of those that did not seek him, or who had turned against him. Why should we imagine he might not do the same again? God works in mysterious ways, does he not? Again, I am not defending Hitler's actions (or God's for that matter). Just making the point that if the Christian God truly exists, only he would know if Hitler was a true Christian.

Thank you mods, for reviewing and re-opening the thread!

Hitler was part spiritualist and there is plenty of evidence, he also used Darwinism and its teachings to its full effect.

There are plenty of images of Jews, gypsies and other Eastern europeans depicted as animals. Darwinism taken to the extremes

the Bible is clear, Hitler did not serve God and nobody gets a special word from God that allows them to operate outside of Gods word.

You are turning this into Hitler was a Christian argument and thats easily countered, simply because its stupid

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Either way, Hitler identified as a Christian.

Hitler may have identified himself as a Christian, but he did not act like one and ultimately, in Christianity we are judged by our deeds.

Hitler, like so may dictators and thugs, use the words and intent of religion to push agendas to manipulate and provide excuse.

originally posted by: borntowatch
Hitler was part spiritualist and there is plenty of evidence...

You should post some of that evidence, it will help add to the thread. It cannot be denied though, that he identified as being a Christian. Obviously he had a far more skewed, and extreme idea of what that meant. And I do agree other fantastical views played a part in shaping his views. But he was born a Catholic, baptized in his youth, specifically identified as a Christian during his life, and referenced the God Almighty right up to the end of his life.

...he also used Darwinism and its teachings to its full effect. There are plenty of images of Jews, gypsies and other Eastern europeans depicted as animals. Darwinism taken to the extremes

Seeing as how Hitler's own musings show that he didn't have a full understanding of Darwin's theory of evolution he could not have used its teachings to their full effects. Another reason he could not have done so is because the theory doesn't teach or support racism, nor did Charles Darwin. Hitler never spoke of Charles Darwin as far as I could find. I'm not sure about the 3rd Reich. Any information you could provide would be welcome. Even if the Nazis were using the biological theory of evolution as motivating influences, their interpretation of it would be just as skewed as Hitler's interpretation of what it means to be a Christian. Also, it would in no way reflect the theory of evolution itself.

the Bible is clear, Hitler did not serve God and nobody gets a special word from God that allows them to operate outside of Gods word.

I'm not going to play the "true Christian" or not game. Anyone Christian can point to any other Christian and find a reason that proves they aren't a "true Christian". It happens all the time here at ATS. It's pointless to discuss here because this thread is not about what it means to be a Christian. Whether you like it or not, Hitler identified as a Christian. Like it or not, he too had an idea of what a "true Christian" was.

You are turning this into Hitler was a Christian argument and thats easily countered, simply because its stupid

You must have missed all the quotes in the OP, as well as links to various pictures and artifacts etc. suggesting otherwise.

originally posted by: paraphi
Hitler may have identified himself as a Christian, but he did not act like one and ultimately, in Christianity we are judged by our deeds.

Hitler, like so may dictators and thugs, use the words and intent of religion to push agendas to manipulate and provide excuse.

I agree that Hitler was far from Christlike.

Still, I find your comment irritating. Here is why!

You (and others) like to say he used religion as an excuse. As if he didn't really believe in it. As if, it was nothing but a tool for him to further an agenda. While I don't disagree that he could have used it as a tool in some regards, it is unfair to say that's all he saw it as. This feels to me like Christians trying to distance themselves from Hitler (don't get me wrong, I can understand why) and claim he was never one of them.

Unless you can prove he never actually believed in God, did not have his own twisted idea of what it meant to be a Christian, and only ever used it as a tool.. Like it or not, he was a Christian.

As I've said.. According to Christianity every man is a sinner.

If the Christian God truly exists, only he would know if Hitler was a true Christian.

Obviously he would still have a lot to answer for come judgement.

Glad the Mods have re-opened this thread and hope that the discussion can proceed. This isn't really a thread about Hitler at all, it is about how attributing erroneous labels of Atheism to him as a means of explaining his inconceivable evil acts has become readily accepted without in depth discussion and debate.

It is the travesty and ignorance that equates considered Atheism with evil and inhumane mindsets, that must be challenged. Religion can be manipulated and twisted to justify many abhorrent things but to think that atheists have less of a regard for human life is absurd and a tool of many theists to make themselves feel better about their choices.

To think that Atheists are devoid of spirituality is one of the great modern ignorances that needs to be denied.

To anyone who would truly like to open their eyes I would recommend The Book Of Atheist Spirituality by Andre Compte Spondville as a very enlightening read to all who would deny ignorance on this topic.