Adolf Hitler's Views on Religion and Evolution

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Still, I find your comment irritating. Here is why!

Thank you, but I think you are over analysing.

Hitler may well have considered himself to be Christian and may well have had deep beliefs, but neither of us can prove that to be the case, or not. The fact is that Hitler may have referenced Christianity in his writings and speeches, but his actions were not that of a Christian. He may well have died with a prayer on his lip, but that would have been meaningless in the context of "being" a Christian. In other words, believing yourself to be a Christian is much different from being a Christian, and he may well have been the former, but not the latter.

Therefore, whatever Hitler's views, his use of Christianity was still an excuse and a method to manipulate and move his agenda forward. In fact, the truth - as you have observed - is that only God knows! I imagine God would have had a thankless job looking into Hitler's head!

Each generation has defined for themselves what it is to be a christian. Had Hitler won the war he would have defined it for a generation.

Christians from the age of the crusades wouldn't be considered true Christians in this era. There are many other examples.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

Unless you can prove he never actually believed in God, did not have his own twisted idea of what it meant to be a Christian, and only ever used it as a tool.. Like it or not, he was a Christian.

As I've said.. According to Christianity every man is a sinner.

So are you saying that anyone who believes in God is a Christian.
Are you saying anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian.

I hate to reference the bible because it seems to antagonise so many but the Bible states Satan believes in God, so does that make him a Christian, all the little demons believe in God....christians as well.

You choose what you want to believe you add your meaning to what you want and establish your own rules and then act out a role where others accept your rules.
Its silly and sad you think we follow your silly made up rules.

You comment on Christianity as if you are a theologian, you are not.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I consider the truth to be important. Having known of the abhorrent practices of the Nazis, my assumption had always been that we will know them by their works - they were agents of destruction & chaos, and certainly did not act in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount, for example.

Having said that, and again referencing the need for truth, I am shocked to see how often, and in what context, Hitler professed a faith in the Lord, and actually believed he was serving God by destroying the Jews. Having written that last sentence, it strikes me that he actually fulfilled a prophecy of Jesus, in that the Lord said "There shall come a time when people who kill you will think they are doing service unto God". He was speaking to Jews at the time, remember - there was no such thing as a Christian back then - there were Messianic Jews, and that was it. A fledgling movement birthed and steeped in the practices & culture of Judaism.

I think the question of motive has to be raised here, OP - are you looking to incriminate Christians who believe in the Lord by associating us with Hitler? Are you addressing only the unfortunate raggle-taggle who believe the Earth was created in six actual days? Are you saying that Christians cannot possibly believe in evolution? Are you saying that Christianity, or Christ, are worthy of condemnation because of the actions of a delusional lunatic?

I think the fact that we have a great movement called 'Jews for Jesus' (look them up) kind of proves that we don't hate Jews. We are actually instructed to use the teachings of the Jews to build up spiritual wisdom as we follow Christ, the fulfilment of Judaism.

Anyway, I'm sure there's bound to be a lot of unnecessary and ridiculous mudslinging, and I have an inkling that a certain wolf in sheep's clothing is rubbing his hands with glee at the opportunity to take down some Christ-centred believers...

Ciao.

originally posted by: borntowatch
So are you saying that anyone who believes in God is a Christian.

Depends what God they profess to believe in.

Are you saying anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian.

Yes. Absolutely, if they believe it.

Does that mean they are a "true Christian"?

I'm not here to debate how closely Hitler followed the teachings of God, it has nothing to do with the point of this thread.

I hate to reference the bible because it seems to antagonise so many but the Bible states Satan believes in God, so does that make him a Christian, all the little demons believe in God....christians as well.

Believing he exists is different than believing in him, or worshiping him.

You choose what you want to believe you add your meaning to what you want and establish your own rules and then act out a role where others accept your rules.
Its silly and sad you think we follow your silly made up rules.

I'm not espousing any rules or acting out a role where I expect others to accept them? Where did that come from? What rules have I made up and where did I say them?

You comment on Christianity as if you are a theologian, you are not.

I am not a theologian, you are correct. I don't need to be to comment on Christianity. I have experience with Christianity. This thread is not intended to be a theological debate and thus no expertise on what makes a "true Christian" is required.

I understand what you, and others are saying though. Whatever Adolf Hitler believed in his mind doesn't reflect a more traditional view of Christianity. Nor does it represent how Christians are supposed to act in life. Hitler's twisted ideology doesn't reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ, nor act in accordance to God's word. In that sense he wasn't a "true Christian". While I find some of this in the realm of debate, I agree with you far more than I disagree.

You may be missing the point of the thread.

Please read the post I made below, to Fly.

Thanks.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I consider the truth to be important. Having known of the abhorrent practices of the Nazis, my assumption had always been that we will know them by their works - they were agents of destruction & chaos, and certainly did not act in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount, for example.

Agreed.

Having said that, and again referencing the need for truth, I am shocked to see how often, and in what context, Hitler professed a faith in the Lord, and actually believed he was serving God by destroying the Jews. Having written that last sentence, it strikes me that he actually fulfilled a prophecy of Jesus, in that the Lord said "There shall come a time when people who kill you will think they are doing service unto God". He was speaking to Jews at the time, remember - there was no such thing as a Christian back then - there were Messianic Jews, and that was it. A fledgling movement birthed and steeped in the practices & culture of Judaism.

Seems like a vague for a prophecy imo, certainly interesting though.

I think the question of motive has to be raised here, OP -

Thank you for your questions Fly!

are you looking to incriminate Christians who believe in the Lord by associating us with Hitler?

No. I am trying to make the statement it's equally unfair for people to incriminate atheists by associating us with Hitler.

Are you addressing only the unfortunate raggle-taggle who believe the Earth was created in six actual days?

No. This thread has nothing to do with specific theological interpretations, such as young Earth creationism. You may have gotten that from the Racial Darwinism video? Yes, that video was the inspiration for the thread, but only a specific part where he talks about Hitler briefly. He talks about creationists a lot because those tend to be where the claims addressed in this thread come from. They tend to be the ones who deny evolution and/or misrepresent it. There are plenty of other threads on that subject though.

Are you saying that Christians cannot possibly believe in evolution?

No. I'm saying that like false accusations that Hitler was an atheist, it's equally false that he himself had an understanding of evolution, or that the 3rd Reich was influenced by the theory of evolution. I'm not saying there may not have been programs thought up and planned out by those who did have an understanding of evolution. A skewed view. One that does not represent the actual theory of evolution. It's unfair to incriminate the theory of evolution, or those that support it by associating the 3rd Reich with them.

I could not say who within the higher echelons believed what specifically. It seems a lot of them were Catholic. Probably born into it. Just something that was part of the culture. No doubt they would be influenced by their religion when pondering these things. It doesn't mean they all think the same way.

Are you saying that Christianity, or Christ, are worthy of condemnation because of the actions of a delusional lunatic?

No. The claims that Hitler was an atheist "Darwinist", with the intent to say atheists are worthy of condemnation for the actions of a delusional lunatic are equally unfair.

The thread was to point out those things as false, and for what reasons. I'm not saying it's the whole story and we've painted a perfect picture of who Hitler was. I am definitely open to these claims being attacked if they can be backed up.

I think the fact that we have a great movement called 'Jews for Jesus' (look them up) kind of proves that we don't hate Jews. We are actually instructed to use the teachings of the Jews to build up spiritual wisdom as we follow Christ, the fulfilment of Judaism.

It is not my intent to broad brush all Christians (or anyone) because of the acts of all the bad apples.

Anyway, I'm sure there's bound to be a lot of unnecessary and ridiculous mudslinging, and I have an inkling that a certain wolf in sheep's clothing is rubbing his hands with glee at the opportunity to take down some Christ-centred believers...

Hopefully not too much in this thread. I do enjoy debating Christians though. Sometimes it's amusing, other times insightful. It's amusing that in the back of my mind I know someone out there sees me as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Ciao.

I reference you to HumansEh's post

Peace

You're citing Hitler's public speeches as evidence for his views. But evidence shows that his approach to Christianity was based on cynical pragmatism. Like any good politician, he manipulated the populace. It's Showmanship 101. (Additionally, "Almighty Lord" isn't explicitly Christian language, nor is any other sort of talk of a "creator" or "God." There are other religions out there.)

By the way, there have been plenty of Christians who have done horrible things. This is not about rejecting that Christians can be horrible, it's about facts. If you want Christians who have done atrocities, look at the European religious wars. They were disgusting.

I'm not posting to prove that Hitler wasn't a Christian because "Christian's wouldn't do that" but because he discarded Christianity in his personal life and affirmed it publicly to further his own ends. The idea that he was a Catholic is...odd, considering that his regime persecuted Catholics. In the spirit of "Deny Ignorance," we should stop pretending like he was a Catholic or any sort of a Christian. A "positive Christian," perhaps, but you'll note that Positive Christianity rejected basic, essential Christian doctrine. It would be as if I was to form a church to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and call it "Islamic." I rightfully would be laughed off of this site. Hitler was not a believer, but rather an exploiter, and it's time we stop falling for his ploys.

This is why basic Wikipedia research is good, folks!

If you're interested in the Nazis religious views, Himmler and the neopagans were much more fun

Edit to add: just to be clear, I'm not trying to go the whole "true Christian" or not route. But based on everything I have seen, Hitler did not consider himself a Christian in any traditional or normal sense of the word. Links provided for convenience

I really don't understand what happened to ATS in recent years. I realize that it's flooded with government shills, but the nature of those shills has changed, no doubt due to the nature of our commander in chief. We now have die hard atheists, christ haters and leftists virulently posting on every topic.

Hitler was no christian. He was a known member of a satanic cult called the Thule society. They performed nasty rituals and his SS was an occult order. You are quoting his public statements to the German people. That's like quoting an Obama speech on how much the affordable care act will reduce health costs.

Does this quote from Hitler sound like a good christian?

"If Jehovah has lost all meaning for us Germans, the same must be said of Jesus Christ, his son.... He [Jesus] certainly lacks those characteristics which he would require to be a true German. Indeed, he is as disappointing, if we read the record carefully, as is his father [the G-d of Israel according to Christian tradition].

www.lermanet.com...

You do know that the swastika is an occult symbol from ancient times right? Has your hatred of christianity blinded you to this basic truth?

One of the founders of the Thule society was very close to Hitler, Dietrich Eckart. In fact Hitler dedicated Mein Kampf to this occultist. Eckart viewed Hitler as Germany's messiah and was proud of his key role in Hitler's rise to power.
thirdreichocculthistory.blogspot.com...

Are you going to now tell us that Hitler had no occult associations and that he was a good catholic?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

A very good book that would add greater detail......Hitlers Pope.

The two posts above member "SubTruth" seem to be closest to reality. There does seem to be an element of mysticism present in most of the Nazi leadership. The leadership would have been more exposed (one would think) to alternative theories than the common farmer.

Also i watched a good documentary on "Hitlers Doctor" and it is worth a search for anyone interesting in this topic.

originally posted by: SevenThunders
I really don't understand what happened to ATS in recent years. I realize that it's flooded with government shills, but the nature of those shills has changed, no doubt due to the nature of our commander in chief. We now have die hard atheists, christ haters and leftists virulently posting on every topic.

Hitler was no christian. He was a known member of a satanic cult called the Thule society. They performed nasty rituals and his SS was an occult order. You are quoting his public statements to the German people. That's like quoting an Obama speech on how much the affordable care act will reduce health costs.

Does this quote from Hitler sound like a good christian?

"If Jehovah has lost all meaning for us Germans, the same must be said of Jesus Christ, his son.... He [Jesus] certainly lacks those characteristics which he would require to be a true German. Indeed, he is as disappointing, if we read the record carefully, as is his father [the G-d of Israel according to Christian tradition].

www.lermanet.com...

You do know that the swastika is an occult symbol from ancient times right? Has your hatred of christianity blinded you to this basic truth?

One of the founders of the Thule society was very close to Hitler, Dietrich Eckart. In fact Hitler dedicated Mein Kampf to this occultist. Eckart viewed Hitler as Germany's messiah and was proud of his key role in Hitler's rise to power.
thirdreichocculthistory.blogspot.com...

Are you going to now tell us that Hitler had no occult associations and that he was a good catholic?

I think maybe this shouldnt be a post but a thread.

There is so much more that can be sifted to blunt the lies of those who want to lie.

Well said and spoken, please turn it into a thread

a reply to: borntowatch
The following is quoted from Seven Thunders:

I realize that [ATS is] flooded with government shills, but the nature of those shills has changed, no doubt due to the nature of our commander in chief. We now have die hard atheists, christ haters and leftists virulently posting on every topic.

Just because we who are not Conservative Republicans are standing up to the Religious Right and voicing our opinions 'virulently' does NOT make us "shills".

People you call "Christ-Haters" are simply opposed to the malarkey of the VERY loud, VERY offensive Seven-Mountain-Dominionists - the New Apostolic Reformation tools. I don't think ANYONE on this board "hates Christ" - we are, instead, intelligent critical thinkers.

The Bible stories are unraveled to a large degree. Some speculate that Jesus the Legend might not have existed at all. Others, that he lived, but was no more 'divine' than any of us are.



But, of course, you Thumpers would like everyone else to just SHUT UP, and that's NOT going to happen until YOU shut up! YOU DO NOT OWN or RUN this country - and so help me God, I will fight until my dying breath to keep it that way.

I HAVE NEVER seen ANYONE on here say they 'hate Christ'. NO ONE has said "His" (Jesus's) message was stupid (unless you count the people who refuse to FOLLOW his teachings and also self-describe as "Christians").

Jesus was about helping everyone, about loving everyone, about accepting everyone.
It's you people - who damn anyone who doesn't agree with you - who besmirch the words he reportedly spoke - with your bigoted, holier-than-thou attitude that make the US look utterly stupid.

If you don't like it, then go somewhere else.

yawn

a reply to: SevenThunders

You do know that the swastika is an occult symbol from ancient times right? Has your hatred of christianity blinded you to this basic truth?

The swastika became known as the Socialist Cross because of Christian Socialists in the USA, including Francis Bellamy and Edward Bellamy.

Swastikas were used to denote overlapping S-letters for "socialism" in the USA and later under the National Socialist German Workers Party and elsewhere. The double-S letters of the hooked cross also denoted the socialist dogma of self-sacrifice, even to the ultimate degree (the cross or crucifix was used as a means of execution and/or self sacrifice). Through the hakenkreuz crusaders, the symbol also gained quasi-religious status as the cross of socialism through its use in the worship of government and socialism.

In the USA the hooked cross was a common symbol and was referred to as a cross (armed cross, twisted cross, lucky cross, crooked cross, hooked cross) before "swastika" became dominant. The eventual dominance of "swastika" occurred in part to distance the cross from German Christian Socialism, by slandering a foreign symbol.

The hooked cross became a symbol of Christian Socialism because, as a cross, it represented two separate pieces overlapping, and those pieces were S-shaped, and served as letters for "socialism" combined with the religious features of the cross. The symbol was then used to promote persecution of people of differing religious faiths and also people of differing philosophies

It is known where Hitler gained the inspiration for the swastika. According to Mein Kampf Hitler adopted the swastika from a catholic church in Austria which he attended as a choir boy when he was 8 or 9 years old.

Below is a picture of what he would pass under every time he attended services. Lambach Abbey Benedictine Austria swastika.




You can believe what you want, but facts are facts.

A mass murdering vegetarian, with Christian(which is based of a Jewish book) and Darwinist views about blonde, blue eyed, tall people, who has a hint of Jewish ancestry and is the exact opposite of what he believes.

Also his actions brought back from the dead nation or idea of a nation called Israel...Which is Jewish.

Which was, again the exact opposite of his ideals, and was lucky enough (for him) not to see it rise back.

If history was this ironic all the time....

S+F


All because he supposedly didn't go to art school and went to jail thinking about domination in a prison.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

The darwinism involved with Hitler and his Third Reich doesn't really have anything to do with biology, evolution or Charles Darwin. Adolf Hitler's brief and destructive reign was one rooted in «social darwinism» (an ideology, look it up), mixed with equal parts of fascism, «racial hygiene» (that is another central term, look it up also) and nationalism. And in all essence, the War was a technology run for the Bomb and the prospected world domination involved for the winner. I also believe the first human clones were made in German labs either in the years leading up to, or during, the War.

originally posted by: StalkerSolent
You're citing Hitler's public speeches as evidence for his views. But evidence shows that his approach to Christianity was based on cynical pragmatism. Like any good politician, he manipulated the populace. It's Showmanship 101. (Additionally, "Almighty Lord" isn't explicitly Christian language, nor is any other sort of talk of a "creator" or "God." There are other religions out there.)

I am using Hitler's speeches as evidence in some cases. Other times the quotes came from his book Mein Kampf. I have no doubt Hitler was a manipulative showman! Like I said in a reply to someone earlier, it doesn't mean he didn't actually believe everything he espoused. There can be no doubt to which religion he was referring to when talking about the "Almighty Lord". He said it plainly. "My feeling as a Christian..." Let's not forget that he was raised Catholic.

By the way, there have been plenty of Christians who have done horrible things. This is not about rejecting that Christians can be horrible, it's about facts. If you want Christians who have done atrocities, look at the European religious wars. They were disgusting.

This thread isn't about blaming Christians for this or that atrocity. That's a whole other subject. It's about addressing the false claims about Hitler being driven by atheism and the theory of biological evolution.

I'm not posting to prove that Hitler wasn't a Christian because "Christian's wouldn't do that" but because he discarded Christianity in his personal life and affirmed it publicly to further his own ends. The idea that he was a Catholic is...odd, considering that his regime persecuted Catholics. In the spirit of "Deny Ignorance," we should stop pretending like he was a Catholic or any sort of a Christian. A "positive Christian," perhaps, but you'll note that Positive Christianity rejected basic, essential Christian doctrine. It would be as if I was to form a church to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and call it "Islamic." I rightfully would be laughed off of this site. Hitler was not a believer, but rather an exploiter, and it's time we stop falling for his ploys.

This is why basic Wikipedia research is good, folks!

I have made no claims that Hitler practiced any remotely traditional form a Christianity! I have also not denied that the 3rd Reich persecuted churches and Christians. Do you deny that on another hand there were churches, and Christians/Catholics who supported Hitler? Who believed he/they were doing the Lord's work?

This is nothing like forming a spaghetti monster church and calling it Islam.

It's about a guy whose personal beliefs were influenced by any number of racist, fantastical ideas, that he truly believed. Indeed the machinations of his mind became dangerous. But he still believed them.

If you're interested in the Nazis religious views, Himmler and the neopagans were much more fun

Edit to add: just to be clear, I'm not trying to go the whole "true Christian" or not route. But based on everything I have seen, Hitler did not consider himself a Christian in any traditional or normal sense of the word. Links provided for convenience

Again, I have not denied, nay I have agreed, that Hitler was not a Christian in any "traditional" or "normal" sense of the word. I am showing that one of the things he was influenced by was Christianity and a faith in God. However minute that influence may have been, and however skewed and in error his version of Christianity was. I think early in life he was probably more of a "good ole boy" Catholic. If nothing else he had an appreciation for it. But later in life as he grasped onto more fantastical ideas all that Hitler was, morphed into what he became.

originally posted by: SevenThunders
I really don't understand what happened to ATS in recent years. I realize that it's flooded with government shills, but the nature of those shills has changed, no doubt due to the nature of our commander in chief. We now have die hard atheists, christ haters and leftists virulently posting on every topic.

Are you calling me a christ hating atheist shill, and blaming it on Obama?

Hitler was no christian. He was a known member of a satanic cult called the Thule society. They performed nasty rituals and his SS was an occult order. You are quoting his public statements to the German people. That's like quoting an Obama speech on how much the affordable care act will reduce health costs.

I understand what you're saying. Really it's not a black and white issue. We don't know that Hitler was lying in his book, in speeches, and in private musings with friends. If you have some alternative information, please share it. Also, please share some information about the Thule society and his connections to worshiping Satan.

Does this quote from Hitler sound like a good christian?

"If Jehovah has lost all meaning for us Germans, the same must be said of Jesus Christ, his son.... He [Jesus] certainly lacks those characteristics which he would require to be a true German. Indeed, he is as disappointing, if we read the record carefully, as is his father [the G-d of Israel according to Christian tradition].

www.lermanet.com...

Nope. Do you mind finding a source for the quote? (A speech, an interview etc.)

You do know that the swastika is an occult symbol from ancient times right? Has your hatred of christianity blinded you to this basic truth?

You have missed the point of this thread entirely.

One of the founders of the Thule society was very close to Hitler, Dietrich Eckart. In fact Hitler dedicated Mein Kampf to this occultist. Eckart viewed Hitler as Germany's messiah and was proud of his key role in Hitler's rise to power.
thirdreichocculthistory.blogspot.com...

I have not denied any occultic connections with Hitler or the 3rd Reich.

Are you going to now tell us that Hitler had no occult associations and that he was a good catholic?

No. And if you read my posts you would know that I have repeatedly said Hitler doesn't remotely represent a "good Catholic".

originally posted by: Harvin
The two posts above member "SubTruth" seem to be closest to reality. There does seem to be an element of mysticism present in most of the Nazi leadership. The leadership would have been more exposed (one would think) to alternative theories than the common farmer.

I agree there were many other influences on Hitler's belief system. Mysticism and the occult, for example. What many people seem to fail to realize is a person's belief systems are complicated. As I've said before Hitler's flavor of Christianity was extremely skewed. Not one single person is debating that! It was obviously shaped from other outside influences. Whatever those views became, and caused him to do.. In my opinion, he still truly believed he was doing the Lord's work.

At any rate.. he was no atheist.

a reply to: borntowatch

Why does that comment need to be turned into another thread if it's on the topic of this thread? Would it not make more sense for SevenThunders to contribute more to this thread? Especially if the intent is to attack the content of the OP?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Thanks for your contribution to the thread!

Very interesting about the clones. I will have to look into that.